Are you satisfied with the story of Super so far?

[LuckyCat]

The story is the best thing about Super. Apologies to GT fans, but let's think about to those early episodes. We were expected to believe that a third mysterious set of Dragonballs existed the whole time, at Kami's lookout, and that no one ever mentioned them before and they didn't show up on radar AND were in plain sight because, just because.

Now look at Super. We immediately get likable new characters like Beerus, Whis, Champa, and Jaco etc. There's at least a plausible explanation for a new set of dragonballs, and even a good reason to collect them. The first fresh story takes us completely out of the old universe and introduces us to characters that span from familiar to having totally alien physiology.

In this sense, Super's a great success.

[emperior]

Super's story is a lot better than GT's, and it has A LOT of potential. We should judge it once it's over. Just the fact Toriyama is behind gives me a lot of hope for what will be next.

Sure it's not flawless but DBZ neither was. If only animation was better and the art more consistent (like it was in BoG arc bar Episode 5 which at least was fixed unlike the atrocious RoF saga)

[dbzfan7]

Going of so far, no. 4 episodes that are alright, followed by 20-23 episodes of pure garbage. The BOG/F arc were complete failures and wastes of time. One's story was fine, while the other was god awful that it makes Super 17 blush. The current tournament arc has nothing really going for it yet. The 21st immediately got us to Goku and Krillin break out, while also Muten Roshi fearing they might get over their heads because they got too good. The 22nd had the rivalry between turtle and crane. The 23rd had the fate of the world at risk with the return of Piccolo. This tourney has nothing. It's just a fun get together, and that's it. Nothing else. Hopefully more happens cause earth switching literally means nothing at all.

So far Super is only better than the Black star arc (Even if it had a worse start). The other arcs are much more fun and interesting.

[Iberian_Saiyan]

The story is the best thing about Super. Apologies to GT fans, but let's think about to those early episodes. We were expected to believe that a third mysterious set of Dragonballs existed the whole time, at Kami's lookout, and that no one ever mentioned them before and they didn't show up on radar AND were in plain sight because, just because.

Now look at Super. We immediately get likable new characters like Beerus, Whis, Champa, and Jaco etc. There's at least a plausible explanation for a new set of dragonballs, and even a good reason to collect them. The first fresh story takes us completely out of the old universe and introduces us to characters that span from familiar to having totally alien physiology.

In this sense, Super's a great success.

I would agree with you but Super so far still has no actual story to go on about, it's about the tournament as to which universe wins and yada yada. It's pretty disappointing that even the battles aren't fun to watch.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Forget the animation quality just look at the story so far, are you happy with it as an addition to the dragon ball canon or do you wish it never existed?

Not at all. There just isn't anything about it that really feels like a continuation of the series in the Toei episodes. There just is no real effort for consistency or depth or tone. What they could have done was what they did with Digimon Tri, break the movie up into episodes, put in any retcons in-between them as extra content and the material should have been adapted from Toyotaro's manga. Then start with U6 so the mess Super's storytelling could have been avoided. Every sequence in the fights too were was poorly choreographed, and barely felt like it was progressing but generic flailing brawls like the Dragonball Hero mission promos and diversions to no build up or struggle within it only to have them be solved with the usual throw-away scenes resetting the conditions. Even so, if Toei is writing for it, it won't feel like it is what Toriyama would want or care to reference later in his own sources. Super's handling feels a lot like GT if not sloppier whether people want to admit it or not. The manga is just so much better.

This. My main concern for the Super anime is that Toriyama's storytelling can be brilliant, but it may not matter as much if Toei keeps poorly executing the story itself in the anime. You have episodes like the fifth one in the G&G arc which was notoriously badly drawn, despite good and fast animation, then some episodes in the RoF arc which had subpar art, flashes of episode 5's art, and yet terrible animation. I mean at times, Toei really knows how to screw up Dragon Ball. The fights actually look better in the manga. I just hope there won't be too many differences between the manga and anime, otherwise that will just make things even more confusing.

[Hugo Boss]

I will be a bit frustrated if Super's story ends the way it is going so far, with gods being so important they can do whatever they please and none having the power to stop them, aside from their respective masters. When Vegeta admitted they were near their limits, I thought, what a shame. But looking at how Beerus reacts to Goku possibly bothering Monaka now, I hope he will play a big factor in this change.

Looking back at the past, I think Cell Arc's conclusion can be seen as a beautiful end to that superiority thinking that Freeza brought up before. The Universe has a vast number of different kinds of life and among them you have humans and... (to simplify) aliens. We have beings like Freeza, Saiyans and Namekians and we have very fragile beings like humans. One of those humans was brilliant enough to create a gang of cyborgs who can beat the strongest beings in the universe. Furthermore, he could create a perfect being who unites both human's best power enhancements and the strongest genes. In the other side, we have a Saiyan-child that was born as the weakest of his species and a human child that was raised by a former martial artist. They have a son which is a combination of a weak alien and a warm-hearted human. Surprisingly, this child has bottomless potential, which he learned little by little to bring out. It was really hard. Then, he has to face his opposite, the perfect being that never needed to work hard to acquire his perfection, apart from chasing after his keys to unlock his definitive form. Gohan simply accomplished the impossible to protect all kinds of life, and with help of friends and family! That's why I like so much this conclusion, even if Goku is the main character.

[sintzu]

You make really good points but at the same time we wouldn't have Ssj3 Goku, Mystic Gohan, Majin Vegeta, Fat Buu, MR.Satan, fusion,ect.

The Buu arc brought so much great content to Z that not having it would make Z feel incomplete and very anticlimactic.

[Cetra]

The story is the best thing about Super. Apologies to GT fans, but let's think about to those early episodes. We were expected to believe that a third mysterious set of Dragonballs existed the whole time, at Kami's lookout, and that no one ever mentioned them before and they didn't show up on radar AND were in plain sight because, just because.

Now look at Super. We immediately get likable new characters like Beerus, Whis, Champa, and Jaco etc. There's at least a plausible explanation for a new set of dragonballs, and even a good reason to collect them. The first fresh story takes us completely out of the old universe and introduces us to characters that span from familiar to having totally alien physiology.

In this sense, Super's a great success.

Because a god of destruction that was always around but we did not know because he slept is such a better explanation. Just as taking him as explanation to many things that happened in Dragon Ball is so much better.

I think Dragon Ball's story and success is almost not compatible as things are right now.

[LuckyCat]

Because a god of destruction that was always around but we did not know because he slept is such a better explanation. Just as taking him as explanation to many things that happened in Dragon Ball is so much better.

If you're referring to Beerus ordering Freeza to kill the Saiyans, I don't see that as a big deal. Freeza may have wanted to take them out anyway and Beerus's blessing made for a good opportunity.

[Hugo Boss]

You make really good points but at the same time we wouldn't have Ssj3 Goku, Mystic Gohan, Majin Vegeta, Fat Buu, MR.Satan, fusion,ect.

The Buu arc brought so much great content to Z that not having it would make Z feel incomplete and very anticlimactic.

I agree the events involving Boo's battle are fun, with the large number of forms and such. But story-wise, those magical beings and their stuff are not very interesting in my eyes. They have the sole purpose to entertain for the sake of entertainment, like Super is doing now. If Gotenks weren't such a boring character, I would probably cheer for him to defeat Boo. That could work as great sequel. That would fit Gohan and Vegeta being so surprised with how quickly they were progressing and the legacy of Goku for the next generation. But.. they didn't have enough carisma and background to hold that responsability.

[buutenks]

i am enjoying it so far.

Super dragon balls, will they be used? if so how?
Monaka. Who is he,is he powerful is he not?Whats the big secret.
The tournament, will it go as planned?or will something happen, who will win it? What will happen if beerus wins or if champa wins?

[SaiyanZ]

So this might not be a popular opinion but I enjoyed the re-tellings of the films by Super as I thought it made those stories better (especially in the case of Fukkatsu no F with all its plotholes). The re-tellings still have problems but I liked them more. In the Battle of Gods arc, useless and unfunny "humor" with Pilaf was taken out and only relegated to 1 ep and a few sparse scenes here and there; the strange relationship between Trunks and Mai also wasn't there. I also liked how Goku had to adjust to the state of being a God, something which the film didn't have. It also took out that nonsensical scene of him remembering everybody and absorbing Beerus's planet destroying attack (which appropriately had Beerus ask "What did you do?"). The one ep where it was just Goku and Beerus screaming at each other and throwing universe destruction level punches was way too slow though, something that I felt like the arc suffered from. The Kamehameha was spammed way too much as well.

For Fukkatsu no F, the arc received a much need overhaul. Krillin had some nice characterization when he had to find his courage again with help from Roshi, Tagoma was made more relevant, justifying the marketing he received and his placement on the various posters, the stupid Piccolo vs Shisami fight was taken out, Goku being taken out by a laser in base form rather than in SSJ Blue made it more sensible, etc. However, the fight itself wasn't very interesting, which was marred by horrible animation and character modeling.

With the Universe 6 stuff, I'm not satisfied. The fights are not very interesting, I'm more entertained by the minute details like Frost's schemes of portraying himself to be a good guy and Magetta's first name being Autta more than I do the actual fights. Hell, I'm even more entertained by Champa groveling on the floor and saying "Dammit" over and over again in that one ep. If it weren't for those things, this arc would be deemed garbage by me.

They've also made Goku way too dumb and childlike, while Vegeta is way too abrasive and just an angry blood-knight a la Kratos or Asura from God of War and Asura's Wrath respectively.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Story's not bad. Though, the execution of it in the manga is better than the anime's as of right now.

[precita]

The tournament has so far turned out rather disappointing. Having Piccolo and Buu not even do anything was insulting. They might as well just had Goku and Vegeta only enter from the start.

Frost and the bear were disappointing. One hit KO's? What the hell is this? If the last 3 fights don't pick up and if there's no plot twist it'll be a massively disappointing storyline. DBZ always had a twist at some point to keep things exciting, Super is rather straightforward.

[Khin]

The tournament has so far turned out rather disappointing. Having Piccolo and Buu not even do anything was insulting. They might as well just had Goku and Vegeta only enter from the start.

Frost and the bear were disappointing. One hit KO's? What the hell is this? If the last 3 fights don't pick up and if there's no plot twist it'll be a massively disappointing storyline. DBZ always had a twist at some point to keep things exciting, Super is rather straightforward.

Frost being evil in not a plot twist to you ? And Frost is the only one that got one shotted.

[manwolf]

No, we have a tournament, the antithesis of a good story, and of the new characters only Cabba and Hit can have some interesting context, the rest have no context or in frost case a boring context.

[Hellspawn28]

The story is the best thing about Super. Apologies to GT fans, but let's think about to those early episodes. We were expected to believe that a third mysterious set of Dragonballs existed the whole time, at Kami's lookout, and that no one ever mentioned them before and they didn't show up on radar AND were in plain sight because, just because.

Now look at Super. We immediately get likable new characters like Beerus, Whis, Champa, and Jaco etc. There's at least a plausible explanation for a new set of dragonballs, and even a good reason to collect them. The first fresh story takes us completely out of the old universe and introduces us to characters that span from familiar to having totally alien physiology.

In this sense, Super's a great success.

I do agree. I didn't find the characters in GT to be that interesting expect for Legic, San Xing Long and Si Xing Long. Bebi was the best main villain in GT, but I still didn't find him to be that special. He was like Dr. Raichi mix with Cell (With Dr. Myuu wanting him to be the ultimate life form) and Garlic Jr (using evil mind control over other people on Earth). I feel like the new characters we got in Super are more enjoyable so far in my opinion then the ones in GT.

[Saturnine]

The story is the best thing about Super. Apologies to GT fans, but let's think about to those early episodes. We were expected to believe that a third mysterious set of Dragonballs existed the whole time, at Kami's lookout, and that no one ever mentioned them before and they didn't show up on radar AND were in plain sight because, just because.

Now look at Super. We immediately get likable new characters like Beerus, Whis, Champa, and Jaco etc. There's at least a plausible explanation for a new set of dragonballs, and even a good reason to collect them. The first fresh story takes us completely out of the old universe and introduces us to characters that span from familiar to having totally alien physiology.

In this sense, Super's a great success.

This, so much this. Buu Saga was already "Universe-tier" in its own right, and Battle of Gods closed off that tier pretty much definitively. The only way to go higher from there is to visit other universes. GT's entire plot felt like it should have happened straight after the Cell Games at the latest, not to mention all the nonsensical asspulls like the blackstar dragonballs or the original, puny Earth dragonball set generating a villain that takes a fusion of SSj4s to defeat.

If you recall correctly, Shenron got killed by fucking King Piccolo in Dragon Ball. King Piccolo had a powerlevel of like 260 at that time. Shenron has also stated numerous times that some wish is beyond his power to complete, he couldn't even turn 17 and 18 back to pure humans. It is really hard for me to accept that some little wishes from that dragon ball set were enough to generate villains this powerful - logically, if that saga was ever to happen in canon, I don't think it would be justified to make the strongest dragon stronger than Vegeta on Earth, let alone someone like Recoome. Shenron isn't really powerful by the Z-fighters standards - he is inferior to Earth's God. The entire Shadow Dragons saga makes no sense at all.

And don't even get me started on how Goku defeated Omega Shenron. Base Goku ignoring Omega's blasts even more than Gogeta did? Seriously? Holding a Genki Dama is supposed to make you VULNERABLE, not INVULNERABLE!! Damn, I guess at that point Toei was like "we're out of ideas so let's just make Goku God for no specific reason, that's what you've always wanted anyway so just shut up and accept it!" I'm sure 9-year-old kids loved the scene when it came out, but guess what, in canon Goku was never invulnerable and always had to fight to win. He could die at any time and while he generally was the strongest, he wasn't invincible. Therefore this scene is probably the most repugnant scene in all of GT - the pinnacle of GokuTime.

And then we get to the ending - Goku decides to leave "just because" and we get a sad ending which is fundamentally completely unnecessary. Goku has zero good reason for leaving everyone and Shenron doesn't have the agency to decide something like taking away the dragonballs all by himself - Shenron is a servant of Dende. While a huge nostalgia trip, Goku's parting scene makes you cringe just for how forced, arbitrary and unnecessary it was. And the fast-forward to 100 years in the future? Yeah, fuck that fucking garbage.

Long story short - in terms of story, Super makes GT feel just like a bad dream you want to forget ASAP.

[TheMikado]

^ not to interrupt the GT dogpile but it looked like the sheer energy from the spirit bomb dissipated Shenrons blast like it never even touched Goku.

As far of the dragons powers you do realize Shenron doesn't live IN the dragonballs right? Supposedly he lives at the center of the earth and is called from the dragonballs. Anyway the dragons of GT are in direct relation to the power and scale of the wish. Like I have no idea how it works but assume every human has a power level of 10 and the wish has to restore the life force of 4Billion humans, that's a TON of power. Syn Sheron was made from restoring the ENTIRE planet of Nameck. If the wish works similarly to spirit bombs that would require restoring the energy of every single thing on the planet which could be trillions. Remember that was just one wish and that assumes the power levels were all like 10. Huge power levels like say Gohans would skew that number. And then add up the power levels that Omega absorbs and I would think you could get some pretty huge numbers.

I'm not saying it as canon but assuming the power required was to restore everything's lifeforce the total power in the dragonballs from the energy these wishes generated would be huge. What doesn't make sense is how transformations and power levels work in Super.

[Saturnine]

^ not to interrupt the GT dogpile but it looked like the sheer energy from the spirit bomb dissipated Shenrons blast like it never even touched Goku.

As far of the dragons powers you do realize Shenron doesn't live IN the dragonballs right? Supposedly he lives at the center of the earth and is called from the dragonballs. Anyway the dragons of GT are in direct relation to the power and scale of the wish. Like I have no idea how it works but assume every human has a power level of 10 and the wish has to restore the life force of 4Billion humans, that's a TON of power. Syn Sheron was made from restoring the ENTIRE planet of Nameck. If the wish works similarly to spirit bombs that would require restoring the energy of every single thing on the planet which could be trillions. Remember that was just one wish and that assumes the power levels were all like 10. Huge power levels like say Gohans would skew that number. And then add up the power levels that Omega absorbs and I would think you could get some pretty huge numbers.

I'm not saying it as canon but assuming the power required was to restore everything's lifeforce the total power in the dragonballs from the energy these wishes generated would be huge. What doesn't make sense is how transformations and power levels work in Super.

Well I do realize there are ways to rationalize GT's bad writing and the writers' lack of knowledge about Toriyama's universe. If somebody thinks something feels right, they'll find ways to make it logically seem right. That is also good, but I'm not convinced.