If Dragonball Z came back on TV would Bruce Faulconer Music come back?

[Kokonoe]

This is a fallacy. What one defines "good" in terms of some Japanese anime people watch is entirely subjective.

Not entirely. You can certainly objectively judge individual elements with objective criteria. For instance, plot holes are bad writing. That doesn't necessarily make the entire story bad, but the more there are and the bigger the holes are, the worse the story is. When dialog is full of random jokes and either doesn't convey character or outright contradicts character, it's bad dialog. Goku's American dialog often clashes with his actions. Goku lets people go in order to have a good fight, but why is he giving people lectures about morality? Vegeta's dub speech about how Freeza made him who he is is not in character.

"It's fucking awful" to you. You don't speak for everyone. Enjoy what you wanna enjoy and I'll enjoy what I wanna enjoy.

It's possible to enjoy something that's terrible. Can you honestly say Sabat's strained impression of Drummond was good acting?

In this context? It sounds to me like you guys are saying Funi's dub is awful and saying it's okay to like awful things.

It doesn't even sound like opinions are being respected here. In fact, I'm actually starting to get annoyed here at the sheer opinionated nature of this conversation.

[Kamiccolo9]

This is a fallacy. What one defines "good" in terms of some Japanese anime people watch is entirely subjective.

Not entirely. You can certainly objectively judge individual elements with objective criteria. For instance, plot holes are bad writing. That doesn't necessarily make the entire story bad, but the more there are and the bigger the holes are, the worse the story is. When dialog is full of random jokes and either doesn't convey character or outright contradicts character, it's bad dialog. Goku's American dialog often clashes with his actions. Goku lets people go in order to have a good fight, but why is he giving people lectures about morality? Vegeta's dub speech about how Freeza made him who he is is not in character.

"It's fucking awful" to you. You don't speak for everyone. Enjoy what you wanna enjoy and I'll enjoy what I wanna enjoy.

It's possible to enjoy something that's terrible. Can you honestly say Sabat's strained impression of Drummond was good acting?

In this context? It sounds to me like you guys are saying Funi's dub is awful and saying it's okay to like awful things.

It doesn't even sound like opinions are being respected here. In fact, I'm actually starting to get annoyed here at the sheer opinionated nature of this conversation.

Opinions aren't immune from criticism just because they are opinions.

This "IT'S MY OPINION" defense that the internet has propagated needs to stop.

[Kokonoe]

Opinions aren't immune from criticism just because they are opinions.

This "IT'S MY OPINION" defense that the internet has propagated needs to stop.

Bull crap. I don't have an issue with differing opinions. I have an issue with people acting as if their opinion is fact.

[ABED]

To me, disrespecting an opinion is to not engage in a mature discussion. I don't think we've done that by disagreeing or saying the dub is awful. And yes, it is very possible to like terrible things. Soda's bad for you, but you can enjoy it.

[Boo Machine]

Well, I'm here in the flesh (okay, pixels) to prove there are people that do. I've watched the original in Japanese from start to finish a few times, watched Kai's in japanese once, Funi's dub more times then I can count, Kai's dub 2 times, and Ocean's twice. Also for me, it wasn't until I started posting on forums that I saw all this hate or criticism for the dub, but the people I grew up with or met online via voice chat generally preferred the dub and really disliked Goku's voice in the Japanese variant.

There is no nostalgia here, there are people out there that actually like this more.

That's cool. But which version did you see first? Not trying to prove a point, just curious.

[Kokonoe]

To me, disrespecting an opinion is to not engage in a mature discussion. I don't think we've done that by disagreeing or saying the dub is awful. And yes, it is very possible to like terrible things. Soda's bad for you, but you can enjoy it.

The disrespecting is the intolerance for it to be had without it being seen as "bad". To respect ones opinion, one doesn't have to agree or see eye to eye in any way, but respect that they like it without there being some catch like "it's okay to like bad things".

Also, I wouldn't call this mature:

"I don't see how someone could consider the Season 3 dub of DBZ good."

"Funi's Season 3 dub is considered to be universally bad."

Just sounds like someone is salty that someone likes the dub.

"Find me a successful dub where a sizeable faction of fans won't call their Goku, their Vegeta, or their Piccolo the iconic version. Do that, and then your opinion on the matter will hold some weight."

And this part made no sense to me. I wasn't saying Japanese voice actors aren't iconic or anything. Hell, I'd say Atem's voice in the dub for Yu-Gi-Oh! is iconic as well. Don't even see the issue.

Well, I'm here in the flesh (okay, pixels) to prove there are people that do. I've watched the original in Japanese from start to finish a few times, watched Kai's in japanese once, Funi's dub more times then I can count, Kai's dub 2 times, and Ocean's twice. Also for me, it wasn't until I started posting on forums that I saw all this hate or criticism for the dub, but the people I grew up with or met online via voice chat generally preferred the dub and really disliked Goku's voice in the Japanese variant.

There is no nostalgia here, there are people out there that actually like this more.

That's cool. But which version did you see first? Not trying to prove a point, just curious.

Ocean in 1996, I use to watch it on WB Kids.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

What did you find hammy?

It could be Yamamoto's lackluster track inflating this, I suppose, but Vegeta's entire yell sounds far too exaggerated compared to Kai's better moments, but not in a good way. The whole thing sounds barely less forced than something straight from the Z dub. To be fair, I've never heard a rendition of this scene that I'd call impressive, but I think the whole scene would have turned out better if they'd taken cues from Horikawa's original take from Z. The yell itself was more subdued, giving the sound effects and Kikuchi's score their time in the spotlight, and boy, did they set the tone well. Both English dubs along with Japanese Kai did nothing but make this scene worse.

Opinions aren't immune from criticism just because they are opinions.

This "IT'S MY OPINION" defense that the internet has propagated needs to stop.

Bull crap. I don't have an issue with differing opinions. I have an issue with people acting as if their opinion is fact.

That sure isn't how it's coming off. If someone says "The Season 3 dub was bad", that doesn't mean "The Season 3 dub is 100% irredeemable and anyone who thinks otherwise should be killed". People can give there opinions without saying it's their opinion. Human beings capable of communication should know this. I went out of my way to explain that because it seems to be a common problem with this community, many users' comprehension of fact or opinion seems to literally hinge on whether or not that person says "in my opinion".

[ABED]

Also, I wouldn't call this mature:
"I don't see how someone could consider the Season 3 dub of DBZ good."
"Funi's Season 3 dub is considered to be universally bad."
Just sounds like someone is salty that someone likes the dub.

I think those are fair statements. The season 3 dub isn't well liked. It's a popular point in the story, but the dub is at its worst. The actors were clearly green.

The disrespecting is the intolerance for it to be had without it being seen as "bad". To respect ones opinion, one doesn't have to agree or see eye to eye in any way, but respect that they like it without there being some catch like "it's okay to like bad things".

We aren't saying you're stupid. I don't see the intolerance towards you as a person, just the product and that's more than fair and mature. Your last point doesn't make sense to me. We don't see eye to eye as I think it's a terrible dub whereas you don't. Saying it's okay to like bad things isn't a catch. It's simply stating a fact. It's possible to like things that aren't good. There's no shame or negative judgment on that point either. I respect that you and others like it, but I think it's odd that you can't at least acknowledge any of the flaws of season 3.

MULE, fair enough. That's not how I see it, but different strokes and all.

[Kokonoe]

That sure isn't how it's coming off. If someone says "The Season 3 dub was bad", that doesn't mean "The Season 3 dub is 100% irredeemable and anyone who thinks otherwise should be killed". People can give there opinions without saying it's their opinion. Human beings capable of communication should know this. I went out of my way to explain that because it seems to be a common problem with this community, many users' comprehension of fact or opinion seems to literally hinge on whether or not that person says "in my opinion".

Then how would it be coming across? Hmm? When I mention that everyone has their own view and I have no qualms with people liking the Japanese variant? When I keep saying "in my opinion" to show that my view isn't a representative of yours or others? When I'm saying that it's YOUR view, but doesn't speak for other people such as myself and to enjoy what you enjoy and I'll enjoy what i enjoy? I legit do not care if people dislike the dub, I've seen enough people on forums that hate dubs in general, and DBZ is no exception. I've done this song and dance so many times I cannot even believe I did it again, but here it is.

Maybe a problem with this community is that people CANNOT HANDLE someone else's opinion without their being some kind of catch or telling them it's bad as "objective" or trying to make it appear as "fact" when that person explains time and time again why they might think it's good. No one here is above anyone else on their view. Maybe "Human beings capable of communication should know" this?

Saying it's okay to like bad things isn't a catch. It's simply stating a fact. It's possible to like things that aren't good. There's no shame or negative judgment on that point either. I respect that you and others like it, but I think it's odd that you can't at least acknowledge any of the flaws of season 3.

It very well is a catch. You can sit there and say outta nowhere it's for this and that reason, but in the context of this conversation it very much was a catch. It was said by that person in regards to right after me explaining why i might think the dub is good. What else would be the point to bring it up right then and there? Especially when that person follows up with "I can't see how you can like this"?

Maybe you guys don't realize it, but holy crap you guys have been hella unwelcoming. I've done my fair share of trying to show that my view is my own and I don't have any issues with people who like the Japanese variant. I wouldn't out of nowhere start making comments such as "I don't see how you can like this". I think it speaks even further volumes when I have to actually take one argument and argue it with several people all saying the same thing.

Either way, I'm exhausted from all of this and annoyed. I think I've honestly about had it with discussing dubs anymore.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Maybe a problem with this community is that people CANNOT HANDLE someone else's opinion without their being some kind of catch or telling them it's bad as "objective" or trying to make it appear as "fact" when that person explains time and time again why they might think it's good. No one here is above anyone else on their view. Maybe "Human beings capable of communication should know" this?

I 100% agree with that assessment, but...

I don't see how someone could consider the Season 3 dub of DBZ good. It's fucking awful. Actors with no experience whatsoever, just doing impressions of actors with actual experience.

"It's fucking awful" to you. You don't speak for everyone. Enjoy what you wanna enjoy and I'll enjoy what I wanna enjoy.

This was the main comment from you that gave me the impression. However, it's by no means exclusive to you, I'll give you that much. I have problems with the posts of tons of users for the exact same thing.

Either way, I'm exhausted from all of this and annoyed. I think I've honestly about had it with discussing dubs anymore.

You wouldn't be so exhausted if you weren't so hung up on whether your opinions are respected or not. As far as I'm concerned, my contribution is to discuss, respect be damned.

[ABED]

It very well is a catch. You can sit there and say outta nowhere it's for this and that reason, but in the context of this conversation it very much was a catch. It was said by that person in regards to right after me explaining why i might think the dub is good. What else would be the point to bring it up right then and there? Especially when that person follows up with "I can't see how you can like this"?

Maybe you guys don't realize it, but holy crap you guys have been hella unwelcoming. I've done my fair share of trying to show that my view is my own and I don't have any issues with people who like the Japanese variant. I wouldn't out of nowhere start making comments such as "I don't see how you can like this". I think it speaks even further volumes when I have to actually take one argument and argue it with several people all saying the same thing.

Either way, I'm exhausted from all of this and annoyed. I think I've honestly about had it with discussing dubs anymore.

It's not a catch. It's a fact of life. It's fine to like things that aren't necessarily good. Sugar is bad for you, but it's more than okay to enjoy a cookie every now and then, but it's best to understand that they aren't nutritious. What's the point of bringing it up? To converse and explain how I and others feel.

It's hardly a comment that's out of nowhere. I dont' know why anyone would think something so cheaply produced is good. I can comprehend liking it, but thinking that it's good. You are coming off as really defensive. You're welcome to your opinion, but understand that you are going to get people that disagree with you.

[Cipher]

If Dragon Ball Z came back on TV, it would have the Faulconer score, and I'll tell you why.

While you weaboos were sucking on your mothers' tits at the nerd library jacking off to Yu-Gi-Oh volumes, I was hitting the gym every god.damn.day listening to the real-ass OG original Dragon Ball FUCKING Z (epic!) with my boy Bruce playing through my apple wristwatch. That's right. I bring my apple watch to the gym. I do a hundred reps. I do a hundred-fifty reps. I do two-hundred fucking reps because it doesn't matter; I've got screaming and endless electric guitar noodling in my ear. It's a living hell that I can't get enough of. Vegeta, Prince of Saiyans, is my boy. Gohan is my boy. Toriyama is my boy. Bruce Faulconer is my boy. Because Toriyama knows his series is bad-ass and epic and this Mickey Moused electronic VHS-porn-styled soundscape is just the way it was meant to be seen. I lift to that every fucking minute and it gets me rock hard. What? You've never popped a boner to Dragon Ball? I do it every day when I leave my girl in bed because it's so epic. Babies cry, and maybe while you sissies are listening to DB with spaghetti-Western violin noodling and boings, your eyes get wet like little girls, I'm busy being a muscular manchild watching the Ginyu Assault saga with with my boy Bruce.

I don't approach media any differently than when I was a kid.

Sometimes when I'm doing six or seven shots of protein, I put on the Kikuchi score as a joke. My girlfriend comes out and she says, "Why are you playing this joke?" Then I tell her not to bother me because I'm on fucking Reddit. I play Vegeta vs. Pui Pui with my boy BF (what! what!) because it gets me pumped and it is so epic.

I don't need to tell you that it's more epic.

It's more epic and cooler.

I haven't watched a full episode since I was ten.

I am unemployed.

Get back to the anime bookstore you nerds.

[ABED]

Phew, for a second, I thought you were serious there Cipher.

To be clear, I'm not being dismissive, I honestly don't have a single clue how anyone can think the season 3 dub is anything other than terrible. Feel free to enjoy it. I admit to having an odd fondness for that time, but the cast was so glaringly terrible that I would think even the most ardent dub fan could see how green that cast was in season 3. They weren't great from the jump. It was like watching 10 year olds perform Hamlet.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

If Dragon Ball Z came back on TV, it would have the Faulconer score, and I'll tell you why.

While you weaboos were sucking on your mothers' tits at the nerd library jacking off to Yu-Gi-Oh volumes, I was hitting the gym every god.damn.day listening to the real-ass OG original Dragon Ball FUCKING Z (epic!) with my boy Bruce playing through my apple wristwatch. That's right. I bring my apple watch to the gym. I do a hundred reps. I do a hundred-fifty reps. I do two-hundred fucking reps because it doesn't matter; I've got screaming and endless electric guitar noodling in my ear. It's a living hell that I can't get enough of. Vegeta, Prince of Saiyans is my boy. Gohan is my boy. Toriyama is my boy. Bruce Faulconer is my boy. Because Toriyama knows his series is bad-ass and epic and this Mickey Moused electronic VHS-porn-styled soundscape is just the way it was meant to be seen. I lift to that every fucking minute and it gets me rock hard. What? You've never popped a boner to Dragon Ball? I do it every day when I leave my girl in bed because it rocks so fucking hard. Babies cry, and maybe while you sissies are listening to DB with spaghetti-Western violin noodling and boings, your eyes get wet like little girls, I'm busy being a muscular manchild watching the Ginyu Assault saga with with my boy Bruce.

I don't approach media any differently than when I was a kid.

Sometimes when I'm doing six or seven shots of protein, I put on the Kikuchi score as a joke. My girlfriend comes out and she says, "Why are you playing this joke?" Then I tell her not to bother me because I'm on fucking Reddit. I play Vegeta vs. Pui Pui with my boy BF (what! what!) because it gets me pumped and it is so epic.

I don't need to tell you that it's more epic.

It's more epic and cooler.

I haven't watched a full episode since I was ten.

Get back to the anime bookstore you nerds.

Huh... never thought of it that way. I'm convinced!

Don't ever leave us Cipher.

[Bajosexto]

Maybe you guys don't realize it, but holy crap you guys have been hella unwelcoming. I've done my fair share of trying to show that my view is my own and I don't have any issues with people who like the Japanese variant. I wouldn't out of nowhere start making comments such as "I don't see how you can like this". I think it speaks even further volumes when I have to actually take one argument and argue it with several people all saying the same thing.

Honestly I don't see how having different opinions and discussing them in a civilised way is unwelcoming to you. I actually like Kanzenshuu because this one of the few places where you can have real conversations even if you disagree. There's very little, if any, "FUNi dub sucks", or "the Japanese version sucks" type comments here. Objective criticism like "season 3 of FUNi in-house dub isn't good" and "I find the Kikuchi score unfitting for the show", sure. But theres no flat out insulting ones preferences. Most of time anyway. We all have different opinions and that's okay. But sometimes people are going to disagree with you. Especially in a forum where the main purpose is to discuss and debate.

[Valerius Dover]

Just when I had lost all hope for this thread, Cipher saves us all.

Yeah, as much as I like TEAM Faulconer's music, I'm not so blind (or should I say deaf) that I can't enjoy something else. I happen to like more than one score in Dragon Ball. Shocking, I know.

And likewise, I enjoy the Z dub (or at least what's on the bricks, I haven't seen the original broadcast) despite its shortcomings, but acknowledge Kai as having the overall superior dub. But it doesn't have to take away from my enjoyment of the original. Granted, late Season 2 and Season 3 are a little silly at times. And Sleeping Princess is hilarious.

All the Faulconer fanboys who come in don't seem to realize several things. Or maybe they do and they're in denial. Kids really don't care about music. Seriously, in all the years I've hung out with other kids at a young age, nobody even mentioned the music in Star Wars or anything like that. At best, the most anyone will mention is the theme song, maybe. Kids probably wouldn't notice if you swapped out the entire score to something, A kid who watches DBZ just wants to see punches thrown. As Kai and the original Dragon Ball have proven, Kikuchi's music isn't incompatible with the US.

It seems like they're grasping at straws trying to come up with arguments, but what really happened is this. They saw it when they were kids, perhaps more than once. It left an impression. Now they can't stand the fact that there's something different. The same mentality can get people hating video game remakes or ports with slight changes for no real reason other than "It's different".



And that's my two cents.

[DBZAOTA482]

So where the Japanese Voice actors inexperienced?

Many of the seiyuus were very big names in the industry even before Dragon Ball so they definitely aren't inexperienced.

[ABED]

, in all the years I've hung out with other kids at a young age, nobody even mentioned the music in Star Wars or anything like that. At best, the most anyone will mention is the theme song, maybe. Kids probably wouldn't notice if you swapped out the entire score to something,

That's not been the case in my life. I don't know where you got this idea from, especially in regard to Star Wars. I hummed lots of Star Wars songs including the cantina song and the Imperial March. I noticed when they swapped Ronald McDonalds. How could a kid not notice a new score?

They saw it when they were kids, perhaps more than once. It left an impression. Now they can't stand the fact that there's something different.

I agree with this. I've found this to be the case with many people. They don't like when shows change.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

, in all the years I've hung out with other kids at a young age, nobody even mentioned the music in Star Wars or anything like that. At best, the most anyone will mention is the theme song, maybe. Kids probably wouldn't notice if you swapped out the entire score to something,

That's not been the case in my life. I don't know where you got this idea from, especially in regard to Star Wars. I hummed lots of Star Wars songs including the cantina song and the Imperial March. I noticed when they swapped Ronald McDonalds. How could a kid not notice a new score?

As always, it depends on the person. I've always been musically oriented, it's sort of in my blood, so the quality of a score drastically affects my opinion of a show. However, to most people, it's just a small part of the show, as insignificant as sound effects usually are to me. Kids are just as susceptible to indifference as anyone.

[ABED]

, in all the years I've hung out with other kids at a young age, nobody even mentioned the music in Star Wars or anything like that. At best, the most anyone will mention is the theme song, maybe. Kids probably wouldn't notice if you swapped out the entire score to something,

That's not been the case in my life. I don't know where you got this idea from, especially in regard to Star Wars. I hummed lots of Star Wars songs including the cantina song and the Imperial March. I noticed when they swapped Ronald McDonalds. How could a kid not notice a new score?

As always, it depends on the person. I've always been musically oriented, it's sort of in my blood, so the quality of a score drastically affects my opinion of a show. However, to most people, it's just a small part of the show, as insignificant as sound effects usually are to me. Kids are just as susceptible to indifference as anyone.

Everyone loves music and it's far more important than sound effects.