"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Rhuagh]

Toyotaro probably didn't insert Gohan into this arc because there would be no convincing way to do it. If Gohan meets Trunks, why does he not ask why he came to the past? If he learns the reason, how could Gohan not want to help him? You either break what Toriyama set in stone (which I don't think is possible), or you make Gohan look stupid.

Gohan was never meant to be part of it. The Universe Survival Arc is his official debut into the story Toriyama is telling in Super, and Toyotaro follows that story.

[The gr]

Gohan introduction in dbs in toriyama eyes is the Top,which is a good thing because I don't have to see the father and fighter dilemma in the manga,they better do something cool with him

[OLKv3]

Is there a reason why Gohan's completely avoided? That's one of my disappointments of the manga. The rest is golden.

Gohan had nothing to do with this arc. Even in the anime version, he was just kinda haphazardly inserted into places where it was convenient.

As much as I think a relationship between Present Gohan and Future Trunks could be interesting, the time for that was over 20 years ago, when the Artificial Human arc was still going. Since Toriyama didn't take the opportunity to develop that relationship, Gohan didn't need to be inserted now. It's kind of the reverse of inserting Jabba into A New Hope, he just doesn't belong.

But shouldn't he at least made an appearance to send off Trunks before he departed again? It's not like Gohan to miss something like this, he's important and It would've had little closure just to give him a wave or something, similar to the anime version.

Gohan had no idea he was even there. This was all just 3 days, and Trunks was only there for 2. He spent the entire time at Bulma's.

[Boo Machine]

Translation by Viz is out. Could finally read it.

Still don't understand how taking off pieces of Zamasu makes more of him. But looks like he took advantage of it when Goku and the others ran away. I would have liked to have seen that. Just Zamasus ripping each other to pieces and having them reform. Must have been fun.

Universe 12 time travelers mentioned again. I wonder if those guys are still around. I'd like to know about them. I'm surprised there aren't a bajillion time rings because of them.

I may not care for the army of Zamasu all that much, but that spread shot of them surrounding capsule corp is really cool.

Goku and Vegeta staying behind to fight off the enemy reminds me of that moment in GT where they decided to do the same with the 1 star dragon. Pretty much one of the few scenes I liked from the Shadow Dragon arc, so approved.

I love that Zeno flops on his face. That look he has when he is peeling himself off the floor is so scary and hilarious.

I feel like Goku is telling on Zamasu to Zeno like a kid telling a teacher on another student.

Zeno: Who did this!
Goku: It was him! He is the bad guy!
Zamasu: GAAAHHH!

Just kind of funny.

Some people seem to have an issue with Zamasu running away. I think it's appropriate. One, Zamasu is totally the type to be a coward underneath his smug exterior. And Two: What else is he supposed to do? He knows he doesn't stand a chance. Is he supposed to try and take him on?

Future mai's interaction with Pilaf is cool. So cruel how F Mai is just kind of vague about how he dies. "Oh so I guess you don't know what's going to happen to you....welp, Goodbye!"

I am bothered that Trunks and Mai seem a little too Ok with their universe being dead. Not even a moment of "Oh gosh darn, our timeline is gone. Well doesn't that just get my goat!"

Gowasu apologizing for zamasu is funny. He sounds more like a Man apologizing to someone who's window got smashed in by their son than a guy apologizing that his student nearly ended existence.

Beerus: This is all your fault! Pick a better student!
Gowasu: Yes I am so sorry! Won't happen again. Bye!

So Trunks won't have his healing abilities anymore once he gives up his apprenticeship? Well that stinks. It was like, 1 of 2 of the only cool things he did in this arc, and now he is going to give it up. Damn shame.

Goku says Trunks will be fine without them. This kind of make me doubt we will see him again. But we shall see. Someone might change their minds later.

[Pannaliciour]

I am confuse: Goku said Zeno destroyed the universe and jet we see the time ring disappearing? Did he (Zeno) or did he not destroyed all 12 universes in the future? Also n the anime they are pretty vague about it

[mfwlegend3]

I'm really curious how Pilaf dies, assuming it'll still happen as Future Mai refused to tell him. He probably choked on a senbei or something.

[OLKv3]

I am confuse: Goku said Zeno destroyed the universe and jet we see the time ring disappearing? Did he (Zeno) or did he not destroyed all 12 universes in the future? Also n the anime they are pretty vague about it

He destroyed the entire timeline for some reason. Goku just thought he destroyed the universe
I hate how the ending makes the arc pointless besides now having 2 Future Trunks
The weak timeline link no longer matters because Pilaf fixed it
Trunks no longer has healing powers
Beerus and Whis could've ended everything
And then Trunks goes back in time to undo all the deaths in the first place.

The struggle was pointless. Zamasu was pointless. Oh well, some fun interactions in this chapter. Love Future Mai being a troll. And the knowledge that Beerus can't kill other gods. And apparently that was a mistranslation by Viz. Beerus was actually saying he couldn't kill an immortal, which is weird because Goku was about to do it just fine

[Will]

I am confuse: Goku said Zeno destroyed the universe and jet we see the time ring disappearing? Did he (Zeno) or did he not destroyed all 12 universes in the future? Also n the anime they are pretty vague about it

He destroyed the entire timeline for some reason. Goku just thought he destroyed the universe
I hate how the ending makes the arc pointless besides now having 2 Future Trunks
The weak timeline link no longer matters because Pilaf fixed it
Trunks no longer has healing powers
Beerus and Whis could've ended everything
And then Trunks goes back in time to undo all the deaths in the first place.

The struggle was pointless. Zamasu was pointless. Oh well, some fun interactions in this chapter. Love Future Mai being a troll. And the knowledge that Beerus can't kill other gods.

Present Gohan being alive doesn't undo the death of Future Gohan.

All the people in Trunks's timeline will always be dead.

[TobyS]

Felt like Pilafs translation about fixing up the time machine was clunky as hell.

Anyone know what it originally said in JPN?

[Legion]

Beerus said he can't kill an immortal Zamasu, and we already know this in the anime, but in the previous chapter Goku was about to kill immortal Zamasu with hakai (Zamasu saved himself with Mai).

[Zephyr]

Just read the chapter. Some loose, scattered thoughts:

- Disappointed that Trunks lost the healing powers. Was nice to have a Saiyan occupying a different sort of combat role, specifically a truly pragmatic one netting a solid support role.

- Glad to see Pilaf being useful! Putting his knowledge as an inventor to good use.

- Disappointed that Zamasu didn't become full-on eldritch abomination, but it was still suitably dire.

[Gog]

The manga version tries to make sense of everything but it's so forgettable and unremarkable on every level I can barely remember it.

Well, I truly am not sure how the Manga is so forgettable. a lot of the Future Trunks arc (from where I've read) is pretty damn good, the utilization of Kibito and Shin is interesting, Toyotarō's gags are top notch stuff too the point where I don't mind the fact that the Racing Kart Gag scene doesn't advance the plot in anyway. The fights are well paneled, the art is consistently gorgeous.

Zamasu's fall from grace, and how his character was handled is one of my favorite aspects from what I've read, he's shown to be more of a confused teenager not sure what to do. Heck, I also really like the Babari scene as well, and how with that mysterious cloaked Babari who managed to stop the fighting as well, making the arc ironic in a way.

[micah007]

Beerus said he can't kill an immortal Zamasu, and we already know this in the anime, but in the previous chapter Goku was about to kill immortal Zamasu with hakai (Zamasu saved himself with Mai).

I think immortal Zamasu would have just regenerated from nothing, as one possible explanation. He probably doesn't know the limits of his regeneration/immortality.

[dbgtFO]

Beerus said he can't kill an immortal Zamasu, and we already know this in the anime, but in the previous chapter Goku was about to kill immortal Zamasu with hakai (Zamasu saved himself with Mai).

I just read the viz translation and there it's stated that Beerus just can't kill gods, which raises a question about him killing Zamas(maybe you aren't a true god until you become a Kaioshin or Hakaishin?).

[Basako]

A fast review for chapter 26. Gotta say, it's a disappointing ending for a nice arc. The timeline is not saved, Zeno destroys it and Trunks and Mai create a copy of it pre Dabra and Black and they are going to live with their copies. I didn't like it in the anime either, there were other options:

- Zeno could have not destroyed the timeline, just the enemy or Earth. Then they could have used the namekian dragon balls in there to restore things and revive people. Future Zeno could have gone with them so the next arc would happen normal too.

- Trunks and Mai could have stayed in the main timeline with them, maybe with Shin, why not. We knew this wasn't going to happen because he would have been one of the ten fighters of the tournament if they did that.

- They could have gone to Cell's timeline, using the settings of the machine he used. That way he would have replaced the Trunks that Cell killed and continue living there. There would be another Mai, but she didn't know Trunks in that point, so it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, Zeno destroys the timeline, one ring disappears. I guess another will appear when Trunks and Mai leave, so the final count of timelines is still six. Six timelines, seven Zenos, the main timeline has two omnigods now. I don't undestand why he would destroy the whole timeline, did he pretend to live in that white vacuum eternally? Why not just erase one universe... Well, those will be questions without answer. It was just how it was.

Apart from that, I like the army of Zamasus a lot, they were really going to accomplish the zero mortal plan in the six timelines and him having the universe twelve time machine was cool too. Vegeta and Goku staying and going to fight together is amazing. Future Zeno stamping his face against the floor is funny and the Zamasus escaping from him is just natural.

Future Mai reacting to see Pilaf and Shu again was cool. Pilaf, a big name in the chapter. He is smarter than what we thought, he can fix the problem of the machine link to the erased timeline. This permits finding Zeno and going to a previous point of that timeline, changing the amount of time separating both. And it's not the first time this happens, what Bulma said about not being possible to change the amount of time between the two because the link was weak applied to that moment. It's a fact it happened before and another fact it happens now again. It was probably a matter of the link being weak in that moment, there was no plothole there, as Geekdom and most of the fandome claimed.

Continuing with Pilaf, what was that about? There is something important future Mai is not revealing about him and I don't think it's his death. I hope we get that some day, he wouldn't include that plotline without reasons.

Quick thoughts about the arc in general, I liked it a lot, except the ending and a few problems here and there. I prefered the manga take than the anime, I'm not able to make a comparison in depth, because I watched the anime just once when it aired, I'd have to rewatch it again to make it fine and, frankly, I don't want to go through that again. But gotta say, the story makes more sense, I prefer all battles and all characterizations, including Black without a doubt. He was great in the manga since he was introduced in that cool way in chapter 14 and being so powerfull in 15. Struggling against Vegeta in 19 doesn't make him worse at all, we get to see his Zenkai boost and tetting the SSR for his first time. And the art, the anime doesn't reach to the level of expression Toyotaro gives to the characters, especially the evil ones, neither the cool battle choreographies. The battles are his high points, he is really the best successor Toriyama could have chosen, Youngjiji is good too, but Toyotaro is way superior in panel composition. Youngjiji just uses horizontal ones, Toyo is much more creative, especially in battles. His battle sequences are pure art.

[ekrolo2]

The manga version tries to make sense of everything but it's so forgettable and unremarkable on every level I can barely remember it.

Well, I truly am not sure how the Manga is so forgettable. a lot of the Future Trunks arc (from where I've read) is pretty damn good, the utilization of Kibito and Shin is interesting, Toyotarō's gags are top notch stuff too the point where I don't mind the fact that the Racing Kart Gag scene doesn't advance the plot in anyway. The fights are well paneled, the art is consistently gorgeous.

Zamasu's fall from grace, and how his character was handled is one of my favorite aspects from what I've read, he's shown to be more of a confused teenager not sure what to do. Heck, I also really like the Babari scene as well, and how with that mysterious cloaked Babari who managed to stop the fighting as well, making the arc ironic in a way.

The fights are fine but a lot of panel time is overly devoted to massive and constant info dumps in an attempt to make everything make sense. Like when Merged Zamasu flips his shit, we get this really awkwardly inserted monologue from Vegeta that's supposed to explain why it's bad but it really takes away from the momentum of the fight AND it doesn't ultimately matter in the end. It's not like Zamasu fucking with his body cuts down his fusion nor does it factor into his weird DNA problems down the road.

A lot of manga is like this, Toyotaro clearly puts thought into the hows and whys, even if his explanations don't always land but he has no idea how to organically put them into the story besides loads of crazy info dumps.

[GodVegetto91]

Seriously, is there a way to contact Viz and have them fix their mistranslation? Because this is totally unacceptable! This isn't just any mistranslation, this is the worst one and biggest they could have made this chapter! An extremely important one. How could they fuck up like this? Don't they understand japanese? There's a huge difference between the word "God" and "Immortal" you know..

[Lord Beerus]

Having read the translated chapter, here are my overall thoughts:

I really enjoyed that Goku and Vegeta were going to stay behind and fight against the army of Merged Zamasu. I found it really cool if a little bit dumb they would do that. And the two page spread out of the army of Merged Zamasu. It really nice call-back to Movie 6 and I enjoyed that. That being said, we never got and explanation for how Megred Zamasu was able to reproduce full body clones from destroyed parts of his body. It's especially jarring because we see SSJB Vegetto cut off his arms and yet no full body clones were produced for his detached limbs. I personally enjoyed the "eldritch abomination" route the anime took with Zamasu' immortal soul infusing with the universe and spreading throughout the timeline. It's just present the scenario with a grander sense of scale of heightened feeling of danger and unpredictability. Plus, it makes Zeno erasing Future Trunks entire timeline more justifiable in the sense that Zamasu was infecting not just one timeline but potentially others. In the manga, the danger was limited to just Earth. He really didn't need to wipe out all of Future Trunks timeline to deal with an army of clones.

I really didn't like that Future Trunks just lost his healing power. It make the plot-point of his having those powers in the first place just seem like a plot device to keep him relevant in the plot. It's basically the anime's equivalent to Future Trunks Super Saiyan Rage transformation.

I enjoyed that Future Mai interacted with the Pilaf Gang a bit more than they did in the anime. And it was nice to see Pilaf be useful. And I never thought of him to be a person who was more advanced in the mechanics of time travel than Bulma. I mean... holy shit. That kinda came out of left field. But it did resolve the issue with them not being able to time travel to Future Trunks timeline anymore so it doesn't bother me that much.

I don't really like how the cast are far more upbeat about the fact that Future Trunks lost everything, excluding Future Mai, than they are in the anime. It's treating Future Trunks losing everything as more of a happy ending when it really isn't a happy ending. At all. The anime went for the bittersweet route and it works far better tonally. I do think Vegeta comforting a tearful Bulma was a nice touch.

And Future Trunks never interacted with Gohan once at all in the arc in the manga. I'm still so bummed out about that. Although Vegeta, telling Future Trunks to get stronger was a nice touch.

Overall, I personally feel much more let down with the ending of the Future Trunks arc in the manga. It just lacks any kind of emotional resonance .It just... ends.

[Gog]

The fights are fine but a lot of panel time is overly devoted to massive and constant info dumps in an attempt to make everything make sense. Like when Merged Zamasu flips his shit, we get this really awkwardly inserted monologue from Vegeta that's supposed to explain why it's bad but it really takes away from the momentum of the fight AND it doesn't ultimately matter in the end. It's not like Zamasu fucking with his body cuts down his fusion nor does it factor into his weird DNA problems down the road.

A lot of manga is like this, Toyotaro clearly puts thought into the hows and whys, even if his explanations don't always land but he has no idea how to organically put them into the story besides loads of crazy info dumps.

Well, not just the fights are fine... I agree most of the information in the manga can be easily condensed down into, one or two panels? The Time Paradox at the start is the most annoying of all the Exposition dumps. It's a lot like Phantom Blood now that I think about it, it just needs to occasionally shut up with its explanations, and be more subtle. But, I'm not up to the part with Merged Zamasu... So, I really can't judge that bit at the end of the day.

Of course just because the Manga can occasionally do some Exposition dumps really doesn't detract from all of the good elements of the Manga itself.

[DBZ Macky]

So the Anime doesn't explain jack and the Manga is just a huge exposition dump? That could work in our favor, but nooo, the Manga has different mechanics for Super Saiyan Blue and other stuff. I feel Super could've been a bit better if it was a single product on which both Toyotarou and Anime staff worked together.