Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Chichi > Chapa-o (23rd) > Chapa-o (22nd) > Son Gohan > Tao Pai Pai > Akkuman > Mummy-kun > Namu > Giran > Son Goku (Initial) > Bear Bandit > Videl
^ Going by that chain, Chichi one-shots Videl. Flying won't help here, considering Chichi's jumping feat from the 23rd, coupled with Chichi more likely one-shotting Videl before she even has time to react.
I am surprised at some of the responses to my Base Gotenks vs Cell Match up. Is his Base form really that weak? I was always under the impression that Base Gotenks(Pre-ROSAT) was in the same realm as the SSJ2s. But apparently not.
Chou_Gohan wrote:- Semi-Cell vs Super Android 13
- Chi chi vs Videl (post training)
- Base Vegito vs SSjin 3 Goku
-Semi-Perfect Cell redeems his punching bag status. He took a punch from #16 who was FAR stronger than the SSJs Super #13 fought and didn't even flinch.
-Is this a joke? Chi-Chi easily one-shots before Videl can even react (and even if she flew Chi-Chi can just jump at her). I'd probably have her losing even to Kid Chi-Chi.
-Vegetto finger-flicks without much basis to my claim... I just think potara is that potent.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Chou_Gohan wrote:- Semi-Cell vs Super Android 13
- Chi chi vs Videl (post training)
- Base Vegito vs SSjin 3 Goku
- Cell one shots
- Chi Chi wrecks Videl
- Vegetto breathes in Goku's direction and he disintegrates
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Chou_Gohan wrote:- Semi-Cell vs Super Android 13
- Chi chi vs Videl (post training)
- Base Vegito vs SSjin 3 Goku
-Super Android 13 challenges Cell in hopes of claiming the title as Gero's top creation. Uninterested in wasting time with an android that can't contribute towards his perfection, Cell instantly blasts the metallic brute into a mechanical pile of junk. He then sets off and continues his search for 18.
-Videl doesn't stand a chance against her mother-in-law.
-Barring the filler fight between Base Vegetto and Buuhan, the former should at the least be in the same realm of power as the latter's previous form (Buutenks). SSJ3 Goku gets one-shotted.
Chichi > Chapa-o (23rd) > Chapa-o (22nd) > Son Gohan > Tao Pai Pai > Akkuman > Mummy-kun > Namu > Giran > Son Goku (Initial) > Bear Bandit > Videl
^ Going by that chain, Chichi one-shots Videl. Flying won't help here, considering Chichi's jumping feat from the 23rd, coupled with Chichi more likely one-shotting Videl before she even has time to react.
I'm so glad you linked that; that's gonna make match-ups involving Chi-Chi so much easier.
(I would say that Videl could probably take the bear thief guy, he seemed pretty slow and Hercule--who's weaker than Videl--had some decent strength feats. But other than that, yeah, seems accurate.)
Chou_Gohan wrote:- Semi-Cell vs Super Android 13
- Chi chi vs Videl (post training)
- Base Vegito vs SSjin 3 Goku
-Cell. (Semi-Cell > 16, Imp-Cell-V2 > Piccolo, 17 > 18 > basic SSJ, whereas all 13 proved is that he's stronger than a basic SSJ. And "all" it took to beat him was a basic SSJ plus a Genkidama derived from one planet, or at most a Frieza-saga-level Genkidama.)
-Chi-Chi, for reasons given above.
-Probably Vegetto, given how enthused Old Kai was about the potara's awesomeness. (I don't know exactly where I'd put base Vegetto...all we know is he's not stronger than Buuhan without going SSJ barring anime filler, and that apparently a Goku-Gohan fusion would've been able to take Buutenks in base. But given the rival thing we don't even know if that hypothetical fusion would be stronger or weaker than Vegetto...)
"Actually I didn’t know what Bulma’s real hair color was" --Toriyama
Chou_Gohan wrote:- Semi-Cell vs Super Android 13
- Chi chi vs Videl (post training)
- Base Vegito vs SSjin 3 Goku
— Cell wins. Android 16 is labeled as the strongest of Gero's creations aside from Cell in Daizenshuu #7's character guide, which was an all-inclusive volume that listed movie characters too. 16 was helpless against Stage-2 Cell, so presumably Super 13 would be as well.
— This comes up pretty often... Videl gets her butt kicked. Chi-Chi's power level is officially on par with Muten Roshi, and Videl's flight advantage isn't going to help her against raw power like that. She'll try escaping into the sky only for Chi-Chi to suddenly be in her face again from a super jump and deliver a single KO-ing kick.
— Goku's got this. Just by scaling things, I figure base Vegetto to be around as strong as the Super Saiyan 2s. He doesn't need to be much if any more powerful than that.
AvatarReiko wrote:I am surprised at some of the responses to my Base Gotenks vs Cell Match up. Is his Base form really that weak? I was always under the impression that Base Gotenks(Pre-ROSAT) was in the same realm as the SSJ2s. But apparently not.
Base Gotenks is just as meaningful as any other base Saiyan in the Boo arc: not at all. The un-fused base Saiyans at least fought some fodder in Bobbidi's ship, but base Gotenks did nothing but get his ass kicked and serve as the butt of some jokes. He has nothing showing him to be anything extraordinarily special in his base form. Since in new material we're told base Goku's still weaker than Freeza, then even if Gotenks is multiple times stronger overall than the other Saiyans, that would "only" put his base form on-par with the Androids or something.
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Videl is stronger than Chi Chi?
It's just very, VERY unlikely.
Chi-Chi's got an official power level on par with Muten Roshi and has demonstrated some pretty crazy raw strength with those insane jumps and stuff. Videl, meanwhile, just got some basic "Ki Usage 101" training in order to fly, but is still weak enough to be hurt by bullets.
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Videl is stronger than Chi Chi?
It's just very, VERY unlikely.
Chi-Chi's got an official power level on par with Muten Roshi and has demonstrated some pretty crazy raw strength with those insane jumps and stuff. Videl, meanwhile, just got some basic "Ki Usage 101" training in order to fly, but is still weak enough to be hurt by bullets.
still, Videl is pretty impressive by human standards. She is stronger than Mr. Satan, who despite being the joke of the series legitimately won a world tournament, she easily beat thugs in the Saiyaman arc, can fly pretty well by the end of the series ( i don't think Chi Chi has any chi manipulation skills ) and she would have beaten spopovich if not for the majin power up. Chi chi wasn't all that amazing in her fight with Goku
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Videl is stronger than Chi Chi?
It's just very, VERY unlikely.
Chi-Chi's got an official power level on par with Muten Roshi and has demonstrated some pretty crazy raw strength with those insane jumps and stuff. Videl, meanwhile, just got some basic "Ki Usage 101" training in order to fly, but is still weak enough to be hurt by bullets.
still, Videl is pretty impressive by human standards. She is stronger than (the H-word), who despite being the joke of the series legitimately won a world tournament, she easily beat thugs in the Saiyaman arc, can fly pretty well by the end of the series ( i don't think Chi Chi has any chi manipulation skills ) and she would have beaten spopovich if not for the majin power up. Chi chi wasn't all that amazing in her fight with Goku
Roshi said her skills are similar to that of Turtke Hermit. If Roshi compliments you and it's not perverted then you have skill. I doubt Videl could damage someone who can best Kid Goku (BoDB)
Roshi said her skills are similar to that of Turtke Hermit. If Roshi compliments you and it's not perverted then you have skill. I doubt Videl could damage someone who can best Kid Goku (BoDB)
Roshi skill level maybe but not overall power. I can't see Chi Chi being able to destroy the moon. And Videl's Ki control (flight) can partially mitigate martial art skill
Roshi said her skills are similar to that of Turtke Hermit. If Roshi compliments you and it's not perverted then you have skill. I doubt Videl could damage someone who can best Kid Goku (BoDB)
Roshi skill level maybe but not overall power. I can't see Chi Chi being able to destroy the moon. And Videl's Ki control (flight) can partially mitigate martial art skill
Videl can't destroy the moon either. She's just as vulnerable as a regular human to bullets evidently, and is impressed with stuff her dad can do... yea, Chi-Chi bitch slaps her down and out IMO. It's pretty widely accepted Goku in the very first chapter of DB is far above Satan and Videl, and Chi-Chi would destroy that Goku.
Videl can't destroy the moon either. She's just as vulnerable as a regular human to bullets evidently, and is impressed with stuff her dad can do... yea, Chi-Chi bitch slaps her down and out IMO. It's pretty widely accepted Goku in the very first chapter of DB is far above Satan and Videl, and Chi-Chi would destroy that Goku.
eh, surely Mr. Satan in his prime could beat chapter 1 Goku. He survived a fight with Tao Pai Pai, right?
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Videl is stronger than Chi Chi?
It's just very, VERY unlikely.
Chi-Chi's got an official power level on par with Muten Roshi and has demonstrated some pretty crazy raw strength with those insane jumps and stuff. Videl, meanwhile, just got some basic "Ki Usage 101" training in order to fly, but is still weak enough to be hurt by bullets.
still, Videl is pretty impressive by human standards. She is stronger than Mr. Satan, who despite being the joke of the series legitimately won a world tournament, she easily beat thugs in the Saiyaman arc, can fly pretty well by the end of the series ( i don't think Chi Chi has any chi manipulation skills ) and she would have beaten spopovich if not for the majin power up. Chi chi wasn't all that amazing in her fight with Goku
There's a difference between a strong human fighter and a fighter whose abilities lean towards the realm of a super human. With the exclusion of flying, the vast majority of Videl's feats are well within the boundaries of a normal human fighter. While her father was able to take home the title, his victory could simply be attributed to the fact that the contestants weren't nearly as powerful as some of the impressive fighters shown competing in the Dragon Ball era.
Between Chi Chi's impressive power level, and some of the stunning feats she's displayed in Dragon Ball, I'd say she's more or less at a level that qualifies her as a super human.
Last edited by supercat on Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
eh, surely Mr. Satan in his prime could beat chapter 1 Goku. He survived a fight with Tao Pai Pai, right?
Not even close I'd say. Satan dies to regular gunfire. Goku tanks that stuff to the head like a badass.
But bullets did hurt Goku. And since pre-Karin Goku would have died to Tao Pai Pai without the Dragonball, and fought more or less evenly with Roshi, we can conclude that Prime Mr. Satan is Roshi-Tier. ( and since Chi chi is supposedly as strong as Roshi and Videl is stronger than Mr. Satan, the power scaling puts Videl above chi chi )
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
eh, surely Mr. Satan in his prime could beat chapter 1 Goku. He survived a fight with Tao Pai Pai, right?
Not even close I'd say. Satan dies to regular gunfire. Goku tanks that stuff to the head like a badass.
But bullets did hurt Goku. And since pre-Karin Goku would have died to Tao Pai Pai without the Dragonball, and fought more or less evenly with Roshi, we can conclude that Prime Mr. Satan is Roshi-Tier. ( and since Chi chi is supposedly as strong as Roshi and Videl is stronger than Mr. Satan, the power scaling puts Videl above chi chi )
Barring fighting experience, Goku (Beginning of Dragon Ball) was probably leagues ahead of Videl and her father in the raw strength department.
Do you honestly believe that Hercule could destroy the moon, or generate an attack even remotely close to the level of power behind Roshi's Kamehameha? Also, had it not been for Buu, the champ would have eventually succumbed to his bullet wound. I don't recall some magical being having to heal Goku after he got shot.
supercat wrote:
Do you honestly believe that (the H-word) could destroy the moon, or generate an attack even remotely close to the level of power behind Roshi's Kamehameha? Also, had it not been for Buu, the champ would have eventually succumbed to his bullet wound. I don't recall some magical being having to heal Goku after he got shot.
Goku didn't need magic. His durability is higher than Mr. Satan's. But since the bullets still did damage, it means that (beginning of series) Goku is not indestructible by normal human means. And ki blast power and martial arts power are two separate things. Roshi could kamehameha the moon to pieces, but he could not destroy the moon with a physical strike. Likewise, even if Mr. Satan can't destroy the moon, his martial art strength could be as great as Roshi's
- Chaozu (Saiyan arc) vs. Jaco (DB Minus).
- Bardocks crew (Toma, Seripa, Pambukin, Totepo) vs. Piccolo and 3 Namekian warriors.
- Freeza's henchmen from the beginning of Namek (Raspberry, Appule, etc.) vs. Piccolo, Tien, Krillin, Yamcha and Son Gohan (Saiyan arc).
- SSJ Vegeta vs. SSJ Future Trunks and Piccolo (Android arc).
