The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:28 pm

LightBing wrote: New Fights:
Kuririn(21st Tenkaichi Budokai), Namu and Gyuumaou vs Goku (21st Tenkaichi Budokai)

Freeza vs Hypothetical SSJ Vegeta after being healed by Dende
Nam didn't do too bad against Goku, nor Krillin against Roshi/Jackie; plus, Gyumao was apparently second to Grandpa Gohan as Roshi's disciple. The team can take Goku.

Given the difference between base Goku and Vegeta...I'd say SSJ Vegeta can take 50% Freeza, but will let Freeza reach full power to prove himself and--since Goku was basically dead even with 100% Freeza--Vegeta starts losing. But Vegeta's probably have been even more brutal than Goku to 50% Freeza, so Freeza's stamina runs out even quicker. Vegeta's tough enough to survive a couple minutes' beating and once Freeza's power drops below his, Vegeta turns it back around and wins.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:38 pm

LightBing wrote:Kuririn(21st Tenkaichi Budokai), Namu and Gyuumaou vs Goku (21st Tenkaichi Budokai)
After a hard fight, Goku loses.
Freeza vs Hypothetical SSJ Vegeta after being healed by Dende
Freeza won't be able to defeat him instantly, so depending on how long their fight is, either Freeza will win, or he will get tired & weaker, so Vegeta will overpower him eventually & win the fight.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:42 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Captain Space wrote:I dunno, if that was the case, Nam wouldn't have been so injured by her hits, right?
Nam was leaving his guard down. Once he went serious, he easily took her out.
He was leaving his guard down but I don't think that would affect his durability. 2nd form Freeza didn't put up any defense against Vegeta's blast and still completely tanked it.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:44 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:He was leaving his guard down but I don't think that would affect his durability. 2nd form Freeza didn't put up any defense against Vegeta's blast and still completely tanked it.
Freeza knows how to use ki, while Nam doesn't. Freeza also wasn't stunned from embarrasment.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:47 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:He was leaving his guard down but I don't think that would affect his durability. 2nd form Freeza didn't put up any defense against Vegeta's blast and still completely tanked it.
Freeza knows how to use ki, while Nam doesn't. Freeza also wasn't stunned from embarrasment.
There's also chapter 1 Goku taking bullets to the head completely unprepared and being fine a few seconds later, and even with Freeza himself, Piccolo completely has the drop on him (he didn't even know Piccolo was there--I'd say that trumps stunned from embarrassment), kicks him for miles...Freeza's absolutely fine.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:41 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Freeza knows how to use ki, while Nam doesn't. Freeza also wasn't stunned from embarrassment.
What does Ki have to do with it?

Do you think embarrassment affects durability?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:48 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Freeza knows how to use ki, while Nam doesn't. Freeza also wasn't stunned from embarrassment.
What does Ki have to do with it?

Do you think embarrassment affects durability?
Well, seeing as DB was still a semi-gag series at that point I wouldn't look too much into Nam being hurt by Ranfan's attacks.

Her flirting obviously made him weak.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by supercat » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:52 pm

LightBing wrote:New Fights:
Kuririn(21st Tenkaichi Budokai), Namu and Gyuumaou vs Goku (21st Tenkaichi Budokai)

Freeza vs Hypothetical SSJ Vegeta after being healed by Dende
-Despite having a solid advantage in power, this fight would still prove to be of some challenge for Goku. Regardless, he should be able to seal the deal after going at it with the trio for a bit.

-Could be close. I've always envisioned Vegeta to be in the neighborhood of 2,300,000 - 2,400,000 after Dende fixed him up. Even on on the low end of that spectrum, with a 50x boost, he'd be hovering around 115,000,000. I honestly feel like it could go either way.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:25 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:What does Ki have to do with it?
Ki protects the fighter's body (why aren't the clothes destroyed?), and when the fighter's guard is down, the body can get much weaker (look what happened to Goku in FnF). Nam hasn't shown any ki control, so I don't think his ki protects his body like Freeza, who knows very well how to use ki.
Do you think embarrassment affects durability?
No, but it distracts him from the fight, which lowers his defenses.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:13 pm

Last I checked, Freeza couldn't control his ki either.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by supercat » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:15 pm

Not only does Frieza manipulate his ki to increase his defenses, his body is also equipped with physical durability that enables him to withstand levels of brutality that most other beings couldn't conceive of withstanding. This is evidenced by his ability to tank Namek's explosion, despite being beaten to the brink of his life and likely having all of his ki depleted.

Nam taking a hit from Ranfan is pretty akin to Sorbet bringing Goku down with a mere laser. Both Goku and Ranfan don't have the same level of physical durability as Frieza, and thus both are vulnerable when caught off guard.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:16 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Last I checked, Freeza couldn't control his ki either.
Freeza? The guy who can go from 4% of his power, to 50%, to 70%, and above at will? Who develops entire forms around suppressing himself? What says he can't control his ki? We've seen him do it half a dozen times, at least.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:44 pm

Some matchups, ladies and germs:
- Piccolo (EOZ) vs Movie 8 LSSJ Broly
- Cui vs Turles
- Young Lord Slug vs Captain Ginyu
- Ozaru Raditz vs Zarbon (No monster form)
- Krillin (Post Unlocked Potential) vs Vegeta (Saiyan arc)
Spoiler:
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:53 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Some matchups, ladies and germs:
- Piccolo (EOZ) vs Movie 8 LSSJ Broly
- Cui vs Tullece
- Young Lord Slug vs Captain Ginyu
- Ozaru Raditz vs Zarbon (No monster form)
- Krillin (Post Unlocked Potential) vs Vegeta (Saiyan arc)
-It's not impossible for Piccolo to have reached SSJ2 tier by EoZ, but we really don't know. So...*shrug* Other people on here have put more thought into theorising how far Piccolo progressed in the later arcs than I have, so I'll let them think on this one.

-Tullece. Pretty sure he measured Goku at 30,000 and Piccolo at 18,000 in the movie, and he was about on par with the former.

-Pretty sure that movie came out roughly around the time the Namek arc was going on, so Goku should be roughly equivalent vs. Slug and Ginyu? Ginyu was scared by a basic Kaioken; Slug was not IIRC, so he wins.

-Depending on which source you go by, even in brute strength Raditz is 12,000 to 15,000 here, and his speed is much lower than that (Oozaru doesn't seem to increase speed much if at all, just brute strength). So Zarbon, sitting pretty in the low 20,000s in all stats, takes this with ease.

-Krillin's power was measured as closer to 10,000 than 20,000 by the Ginyu Force's scouters. Vegeta's was closer to 20K than 10K in the saiyan saga. And we've seen--twice--that Vegeta isn't gonna let a Kienzan take him out. So, Vegeta.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by AvatarReiko » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:08 pm

Imperfect Cell(Post-Humans) vs Kamiccolo(fresh), SSJ Goku, SSJ Vegeta, 17 & 18

Note:Goku and Vegeta are Pre-ROSAT

Kamiccolo(Cell Games) vs SSJ Vegeta(Cell Games)

Krillin's Kienzen(Saiyan Saga) vs SSJ Vegetto Does Vegetto survive?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:13 pm

AvatarReiko wrote:Imperfect Cell(Post-Humans) vs Kamiccolo(fresh), SSJ Goku, SSJ Vegeta, 17 & 18

Note:Goku and Vegeta are Pre-ROSAT
Cell tanks everything they throw at him and proceeds to pick them off at his leisure, eventually absorbing #17 & #18.
Kamiccolo(Cell Games) vs SSJ Vegeta(Cell Games)
Vegeta one-shots.
Krillin's Kienzen(Saiyan Saga) vs SSJ Vegetto Does Vegetto survive?
As it approaches Vegetto, the Kienzan suddenly stops in its track, develops a mind of its own and decides it's better not to even try taking Vegetto on and so it turns against its creator and cuts Krillin in half.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:16 pm

AvatarReiko wrote:Imperfect Cell(Post-Humans) vs Kamiccolo(fresh), SSJ Goku, SSJ Vegeta, 17 & 18

Note:Goku and Vegeta are Pre-ROSAT

Kamiccolo(Cell Games) vs SSJ Vegeta(Cell Games)

Krillin's Kienzen(Saiyan Saga) vs SSJ Vegetto Does Vegetto survive?
- Imperfect Cell wrecks everyone
- Vegeta beats the Super Namek within an inch of his life
- Vegetto tanks that shit.
Spoiler:
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:20 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Some matchups, ladies and germs:
- Piccolo (EOZ) vs Movie 8 LSSJ Broly
- Cui vs Tullece
- Young Lord Slug vs Captain Ginyu
- Ozaru Raditz vs Zarbon (No monster form)
- Krillin (Post Unlocked Potential) vs Vegeta (Saiyan arc)
-Piccolo loses. LSS Broly > Buu saga SS Goku > Piccolo (EOZ)
-Tullece was keeping up with Great Ape Gohan (100,000) and was a threat to him. He slaughters Kiwi.
-Lord Slug > post-fruit Tullece: stated. Ginyu gets slugged.
-Raditz gets one-shotted. Even if you go by the 1,500 figure, he ends up much weaker, and much much slower.
-Krillin is 13,000 going by official figures. I go with that since nothing contradicts it. Krillin gets stomped.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:45 pm

AvatarReiko wrote:Imperfect Cell(Post-Humans) vs Kamiccolo(fresh), SSJ Goku, SSJ Vegeta, 17 & 18

Note:Goku and Vegeta are Pre-ROSAT

Kamiccolo(Cell Games) vs SSJ Vegeta(Cell Games)

Krillin's Kienzen(Saiyan Saga) vs SSJ Vegetto Does Vegetto survive?

-None of them can touch Cell.

-Cell's dialogue in the manga implies Vegeta was stronger at the time.

-Vegetto's fine. He has a track record of 'breaking the rules'.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:02 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:- Piccolo (EOZ) vs Movie 8 LSSJ Broly
Piccolo gets destroyed. Broli was stronger than SS Goku, and I doubt Piccolo ever surpassed SS Goku's level after the RoSaT.
- Cui vs Tullece
Goku's battle power was at 30.000 in M3 without Kaio-ken, and Tullece was stronger than KKx10 Goku. Kiwi doesn't stand a chance.
- Young Lord Slug vs Captain Ginyu
Slug was said to be stronger than Freeza. We don't know if Kaio ment Full Power Freeza (who hadn't appeared yet), but that means that Slug is definitely stronger than 1st Form Freeza, who is much stronger than Ginyu. So, unless if Ginyu gets a chance to take Slug's body, he is screwed.
- Ozaru Raditz vs Zarbon (No monster form)
Raditz is at 15.000 at most, without any control over the form, while Zarbon is at 23.000 and knows about Saiyan tails, but he doesn't even need to cut his tail, he simply cuts his head.
- Krillin (Post Unlocked Potential) vs Vegeta (Saiyan arc)
Kuririn was at around 10.000 after he got his dormant power drawn out. However, his power was slowly rising as time passed, and it eventually reached 80.000 by the time he was fighting Freeza, so Vegeta would have to go Oozaru in order to smash him.
AvatarReiko wrote:Imperfect Cell(Post-Humans) vs Kamiccolo(fresh), SSJ Goku, SSJ Vegeta, 17 & 18

Note:Goku and Vegeta are Pre-ROSAT
They may give Cell a hard time at first, but in the end, they start to fall one by one.
Kamiccolo(Cell Games) vs SSJ Vegeta(Cell Games)
They start a good fight, but then Vegeta gets serious and beats Piccolo.
Krillin's Kienzen(Saiyan Saga) vs SSJ Vegetto Does Vegetto survive?
I don't believe that the Kienzan is a magical blade that cuts everything no matter what, so yes, Vegetto survives.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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