Why Gohan lost his Mystic in GT theory

[chibi_goten]

But that doesn't explain the change in his appearance. that he looks like a SSJ but is in his base form. And he keeps this appearance ever since he got his Mystic Powerup.

It doesn't have to explain it really though, that's just an opinion on what ''could have happened'', there's no proof that he lost it at all. If anything the facts favour the idea that he didn't loose it at all at the end of Z.

It's just a theory on what could have possibly happened to make him loose it in GT. If you're taking his hair as being a factor though, think about this.

When Gohan's training in the time chamber he learns to control his Ki and learns to maintain his SSJ form and becomes fully comfortable with the energy that's in his body, he has complete control of is Ki at all times, and it becomes natural for him to be at the peak of his power.

So, if the mystic power wears off when he's died, perhaps he's still at his maximum power in his base form without having to transform, and can maintain his maximum natural level of ki (his own natural ki without the mystic boost), which could in turn give him that SSJ spikey haired looking base form. Basically, he's still at his full power without needing to transform, but has lost the extra power the mystic form unleashed.

Unlikely, I know.. in my opinion he kept the mystic form, but if we're looking for other possibilities as to how he lost it in GT, that could explain his appearance if he did infact lose the boost.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Here's my attempt at an in-story answer (though I prefer the "wore off pre-Genkidama" belief) to hammer out something that works with the Genkidama, movie 13, and GT continuity:

It's once per lifetime. As we see, it's activated by going SSJ, so powering down also deactivates it. Thus Gohan lost it either when he was freed from Boo, or killed by Boo. Gohan is wished back to life, giving him another chance to use the power up. He doesn't, however, which is why the Genkidama is so weak when he contributes energy to it. In movie 13, we see him power up, using his one time. At some point between that battle and GT, he powers down, which causes him to permanently lose it. In GT he uses powers up again, but because it's once per lifetime, this results in a regular SSJ transformation instead.

But that doesn't explain the change in his appearance. that he looks like a SSJ but is in his base form. And he keeps this appearance ever since he got his Mystic Powerup.

Could it be when he received the Ultimate Power Up form Old Kaiôshin his body physically aged to a state where he could handle that degree of power. Thus when/if it wore off, he kept the physical characteristics but not the power because that is what he would have eventually looked like in a few years anyway.

[Thanos]

In my head, I've always figured it had just worn off due to his lack of honing his abilities over time.

On a slightly different subject, it would've been nice to see either him or Goten fully realize the potential of being Goku's son, as they implied so many times for Gohan when he was a kid. I think Goten should've been that character, since he was almost half the age Gohan was when he first achieved Super Saiyajin... which should have alluded to some incredible powers. But instead, him and Gohan are pushed aside as weak side-characters, much in the vain of Yamcha and Tenshinhan in early Dragon Ball Z.

[Dayspring]

Here's my attempt at an in-story answer (though I prefer the "wore off pre-Genkidama" belief) to hammer out something that works with the Genkidama, movie 13, and GT continuity:

It's once per lifetime. As we see, it's activated by going SSJ, so powering down also deactivates it. Thus Gohan lost it either when he was freed from Boo, or killed by Boo. Gohan is wished back to life, giving him another chance to use the power up. He doesn't, however, which is why the Genkidama is so weak when he contributes energy to it. In movie 13, we see him power up, using his one time. At some point between that battle and GT, he powers down, which causes him to permanently lose it. In GT he uses powers up again, but because it's once per lifetime, this results in a regular SSJ transformation instead.

But that doesn't explain the change in his appearance. that he looks like a SSJ but is in his base form. And he keeps this appearance ever since he got his Mystic Powerup.

Could it be when he received the Ultimate Power Up form Old Kaiôshin his body physically aged to a state where he could handle that degree of power. Thus when/if it wore off, he kept the physical characteristics but not the power because that is what he would have eventually looked like in a few years anyway.

Besides, that change was caused by Kibito's changing his uniform, not the power up. I always figured it was to denote that he had finally matured and stepped up to his responsibilities.

[Wojak]

But that doesn't explain the change in his appearance. that he looks like a SSJ but is in his base form. And he keeps this appearance ever since he got his Mystic Powerup.

Could it be when he received the Ultimate Power Up form Old Kaiôshin his body physically aged to a state where he could handle that degree of power. Thus when/if it wore off, he kept the physical characteristics but not the power because that is what he would have eventually looked like in a few years anyway.

Besides, that change was caused by Kibito's changing his uniform, not the power up. I always figured it was to denote that he had finally matured and stepped up to his responsibilities.

No, the change was apparent right after he was done with powering up.
Even when Goku matured, he kept his eyes without closed lines, but Gohan got eyes like Vegeta's ever since he powered up.
Just check the manga.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...No, the change was apparent right after he was done with powering up. Even when Goku matured, he kept his eyes without closed lines, but Gohan got eyes like Vegeta's ever since he powered up.
Just check the manga.

I thought the manga/anime also stated that Son Gohan’s mental inclination was modified as well. I believe Piccolo commented on this at some point. So along with the advanced aging there was granted him the drive to carry out the job at hand. Therefore, he would not punk out and would go ahead and destroy Majin Buu.

[Xyex]

Gohan should have been able to destroy Kid Boo with ease, though. If his energy, combined with everybody else (minus the regular humans) still isn't enough to take out Boo, I really don't think he had the power up as of then.

I don't think Buu can be destroyed as easily as an average being. IE, instead of needing a small % more power than that person to obliterate them (such as the 33% seen when Vegeta blew up Kui) you need a vast amount over Buu to be sure that every single atom is destroyed. Say, 10x or more, which is much more power than Gohan alone has. Or it can be argued that the energy used in the Genki Dama is not ki but genki, and while genki can be stronger in stronger people it doesn't increase at the magnitude a person's ki does, thus the amount of genki Gohan had wouldn't be as great as his ki, nor would it be enough on it's own to defeat Buu.

As for the actual loss of 'mystic' for GT... there's no in-universe explanation that works (this from someone who loves coming up with them) and the only explanation is that Toei didn't want anyone being stronger than Goku.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...the only explanation is that Toei didn't want anyone being stronger than Goku.

I do not necessarily think that is it, Son Gohan reached his limit in the Buu Saga. While Vegeta and Kakarrot continued to get stronger for the 15 years (in total) up to GT. Then they even went further. While Son Gohan may have been the strongest at the end of the Buu Saga, he was not at the end of the series.

[Dayspring]

Gohan should have been able to destroy Kid Boo with ease, though. If his energy, combined with everybody else (minus the regular humans) still isn't enough to take out Boo, I really don't think he had the power up as of then.

I don't think Buu can be destroyed as easily as an average being. IE, instead of needing a small % more power than that person to obliterate them (such as the 33% seen when Vegeta blew up Kui) you need a vast amount over Buu to be sure that every single atom is destroyed. Say, 10x or more, which is much more power than Gohan alone has. Or it can be argued that the energy used in the Genki Dama is not ki but genki, and while genki can be stronger in stronger people it doesn't increase at the magnitude a person's ki does, thus the amount of genki Gohan had wouldn't be as great as his ki, nor would it be enough on it's own to defeat Buu.

But Goku thought that SSJ3 powered up would have that strength difference against Kid Buu, whereas he was going to let Gohan take on Boo(+Picolo) earlier. This tells us that Ultimate Gohan has the necessary strength to take out Kid Boo.

As for the actual loss of 'mystic' for GT... there's no in-universe explanation that works (this from someone who loves coming up with them) and the only explanation is that Toei didn't want anyone being stronger than Goku.

Which always bugged me. It'd be a simple matter of saying Goku somehow surpassed that strength by the time we finally see Gohan fight, or to have some exposition:
Kaioshin: "Why isn't Gohan as strong as he was against Boo?!"
Rou Kaioshin: "Because the spell wore off years ago."
Kaioshin: "WHAAAAAAAAT??!!"
Rou Kaioshin: "Didn't I tell you he can only activate the power up twice? Oh well, it's the age, you know."

@Wojak: You're right. Interesting thing to note though is that it's rounded off after death instead of staying angular, though.

Meh. I have no in-story explanation. I still say, in the manga cotinuity, that his uselessness against Kid Boo in regards to energy donation shows he lost it when he died.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...

As for the actual loss of 'mystic' for GT... there's no in-universe explanation that works (this from someone who loves coming up with them) and the only explanation is that Toei didn't want anyone being stronger than Goku.

Which always bugged me. It'd be a simple matter of saying Goku somehow surpassed that strength by the time we finally see Gohan fight, or to have some exposition:
Kaioshin: "Why isn't Gohan as strong as he was against Boo?!"
Rou Kaioshin: "Because the spell wore off years ago."
Kaioshin: "WHAAAAAAAAT??!!"
Rou Kaioshin: "Didn't I tell you he can only activate the power up twice? Oh well, it's the age, you know."

@Wojak: You're right. Interesting thing to note though is that it's rounded off after death instead of staying angular, though.

Meh. I have no in-story explanation. I still say, in the manga cotinuity, that his uselessness against Kid Boo in regards to energy donation shows he lost it when he died.

Simple answer, Toriyama was tired and desired to end it as quick as possible. I seriously doubt he wanted to cover every detail.

[Dayspring]

...

As for the actual loss of 'mystic' for GT... there's no in-universe explanation that works (this from someone who loves coming up with them) and the only explanation is that Toei didn't want anyone being stronger than Goku.

Which always bugged me. It'd be a simple matter of saying Goku somehow surpassed that strength by the time we finally see Gohan fight, or to have some exposition:
Kaioshin: "Why isn't Gohan as strong as he was against Boo?!"
Rou Kaioshin: "Because the spell wore off years ago."
Kaioshin: "WHAAAAAAAAT??!!"
Rou Kaioshin: "Didn't I tell you he can only activate the power up twice? Oh well, it's the age, you know."

@Wojak: You're right. Interesting thing to note though is that it's rounded off after death instead of staying angular, though.

Meh. I have no in-story explanation. I still say, in the manga cotinuity, that his uselessness against Kid Boo in regards to energy donation shows he lost it when he died.

Simple answer, Toriyama was tired and desired to end it as quick as possible. I seriously doubt he wanted to cover every detail.

Simple answer to what?

[baragon_kun]

I'm sure Gohan trained, though it's clear that he didn't maintain the same fitness/strength that he achieved at the end of Z. I don't think dying had an affect on his ability to use his ''mystic'' form at the end of Z, or movie 13 if we're including that too.

I think we can only say that we don't see it in GT due to,

A/ Lack of training..

B/ It's only temporary.

Or, we can take the easy option and take away the discussion and go with,

C/ Plot hole.

i will go for C, he most logical theory, after all, it was GT

[Xyex]

I do not necessarily think that is it, Son Gohan reached his limit in the Buu Saga. While Vegeta and Kakarrot continued to get stronger for the 15 years (in total) up to GT. Then they even went further. While Son Gohan may have been the strongest at the end of the Buu Saga, he was not at the end of the series.

Not enough, in my opinion. I've got Ultimate Gohan at 18 billion and SSJ4 Goku at 13.5 billion.

But Goku thought that SSJ3 powered up would have that strength difference against Kid Buu, whereas he was going to let Gohan take on Boo(+Picolo) earlier. This tells us that Ultimate Gohan has the necessary strength to take out Kid Boo.

Actually, it doesn't. What this tells us is that Goku assumed his full SSJ3 power would be enough to beat Buu and that Gohan's power would be enough to beat Super Buu + Piccolo. And, even if these are true and Buu doesn't just come back from next to nothing like he did from the smoke with Gotenks, this also only goes for ki but not for genki which is inferred to be different. Having enough ki to do something on your own doesn't have to mean you have enough 'genki' too.

[Saiyan-Professor]

I do not necessarily think that is it, Son Gohan reached his limit in the Buu Saga. While Vegeta and Kakarrot continued to get stronger for the 15 years (in total) up to GT. Then they even went further. While Son Gohan may have been the strongest at the end of the Buu Saga, he was not at the end of the series.

Not enough, in my opinion. I've got Ultimate Gohan at 18 billion and SSJ4 Goku at 13.5 billion...

Where do you get that estimation? What from GT would make you conclude that Super Saiyan 4 is weaker than Ultimate Son Gohan?

[Rocketman]

Where do you get that estimation? What from GT would make you conclude that Super Saiyan 4 is weaker than Ultimate Son Gohan?

SSJ4 Goku: OH GOD A FAN BLADE

[JulieYBM]

Where do you get that estimation? What from GT would make you conclude that Super Saiyan 4 is weaker than Ultimate Son Gohan?

SSJ4 Goku: OH GOD A FAN BLADE

Rotating supposedly at speeds only the most powerful being in the universe could create by throwing.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Where do you get that estimation? What from GT would make you conclude that Super Saiyan 4 is weaker than Ultimate Son Gohan?

SSJ4 Goku: OH GOD A FAN BLADE

Rotating supposedly at speeds only the most powerful being in the universe could create by throwing.

Are you talking about when Yi Xing Long threw the clock face? If so, he did that because it did not have Ki to detect and Kakarrot was blind at the time. Given Yi Xing Long’s strength and the velocity it would have sliced right through Kakarrot Super Saiyan 4 or not.

[Rocketman]

Are you talking about when Yi Xing Long threw the clock face? If so, he did that because it did not have Ki to detect and Kakarrot was blind at the time. Given Yi Xing Long’s strength and the velocity it would have sliced right through Kakarrot Super Saiyan 4 or not.

Bah. With how many times Goku yakked on about "sensing air currents" and whatnot since he was trained in that by Mr. Popo, being blind is no excuse.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Are you talking about when Yi Xing Long threw the clock face? If so, he did that because it did not have Ki to detect and Kakarrot was blind at the time. Given Yi Xing Long’s strength and the velocity it would have sliced right through Kakarrot Super Saiyan 4 or not.

Bah. With how many times Goku yakked on about "sensing air currents" and whatnot since he was trained in that by Mr. Popo, being blind is no excuse.

What?! He caught the stupid thing; he hesitated to jack with Yi Xing Long. We all knew about the air current crap he pulled out his ass when he fought against Yakon but Yi Xing Long did not. Damn it, I cannot believe I am defending Kakarrot.

[Wojak]

I do not necessarily think that is it, Son Gohan reached his limit in the Buu Saga. While Vegeta and Kakarrot continued to get stronger for the 15 years (in total) up to GT. Then they even went further. While Son Gohan may have been the strongest at the end of the Buu Saga, he was not at the end of the series.

Not enough, in my opinion. I've got Ultimate Gohan at 18 billion and SSJ4 Goku at 13.5 billion.

Please explain why, otherwise it's not a good argument at all.
I could say "I've got SSJ4 Goku at 18 billion and Ultimate Gohan at 13.5 billion" too, but I doubt that you would see it as a legit argument.
Just saying.

Are you talking about when Yi Xing Long threw the clock face? If so, he did that because it did not have Ki to detect and Kakarrot was blind at the time. Given Yi Xing Long’s strength and the velocity it would have sliced right through Kakarrot Super Saiyan 4 or not.

Bah. With how many times Goku yakked on about "sensing air currents" and whatnot since he was trained in that by Mr. Popo, being blind is no excuse.

We can't exclude the fact that Goku may have been in a stressful situation, which affects his senses.
Against Yakon, he was positive that Yakon was inferior to him in power.
Otherwise I would say that he was so up on his pedistal about his power over those years, that he in GT had forgotten the basics.
I am referring to his "if it doesn't work, shoot more chi blasts or more full power kamehameha at their face" attitude, which is especially seen in the Super 17 arc.