Why Gohan lost his Mystic in GT theory

[Shineman]

I have a theory about this losing his Mystic thing.

I believe that he never lost it, he was only weaken. I think that he not as strong when he use to be is due to the lack of training for 15 years.

Any thoughts?

[Dayspring]

5 years, not 15.

Since his power didn't seem to affect the genkidama any more than anybody else, I figure it's either temporary, or wears off when he died.

[Rocketman]

5 years, not 15.

Ten years between Kid Buu and Uub.

I like the idea that he lost the powerup when he died, but it's more likely it's just something as simple as "use it or lose it".

[chibi_goten]

I figure it's either temporary, or wears off when he died.

At the end of Z though, he is brought back to life, and then he contributes towards the Genki-dama and it makes a huge difference then, so I don't think being dead makes a difference. Though I think you've got a good theory when you say it's temporary. That would also help to explain why he goes SSJ in GT, when he doesn't during his battle with Boo, seeing as if it were temporary, it would have worn off and it would have been necessary to turn SSJ again.

[Dayspring]

Woops! Nice catch, Rocketman. My bad!

I figure it's either temporary, or wears off when he died.

At the end of Z though, he is brought back to life, and then he contributes towards the Genki-dama and it makes a huge difference then, so I don't think being dead makes a difference. Though I think you've got a good theory when you say it's temporary. That would also help to explain why he goes SSJ in GT, when he doesn't during his battle with Boo, seeing as if it were temporary, it would have worn off and it would have been necessary to turn SSJ again.

Gohan should have been able to destroy Kid Boo with ease, though. If his energy, combined with everybody else (minus the regular humans) still isn't enough to take out Boo, I really don't think he had the power up as of then.

[Conan the SSJ]

Also keep in mind guys, if we're gonna be talking about reasoning with GT, then we gotta figure movie 13 into the equation. Against Hildegarn, which is after the events against Buu (I'd say one year later, also being 6 months after the last Shenlong wish to alter memories of fat Buu & a year before the recent special), Gohan still had the ability to tap into his Ultimate level. Therefore, that seems to confirm it as a matter of not training appropriately and losing the ability entirely due to that. Thus when he gets into battle again in GT with Baby-Goten, when he finally pulls out all the stops, he goes Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2 as opposed to his "Mystic" Ultimate form. This in itself pretty much supports how he's, by GT, clearly weaker than Goku and Vegeta.

[chibi_goten]

I think you've nailed it there Conan.

[Dayspring]

Also keep in mind guys, if we're gonna be talking about reasoning with GT, then we gotta figure movie 13 into the equation. Against Hildegarn, which is after the events against Buu (I'd say one year later, also being 6 months after the last Shenlong wish to alter memories of fat Buu & a year before the recent special), Gohan still had the ability to tap into his Ultimate level. Therefore, that seems to confirm it as a matter of not training appropriately and losing the ability entirely due to that. Thus when he gets into battle again in GT with Baby-Goten, when he finally pulls out all the stops, he goes Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2 as opposed to his "Mystic" Ultimate form. This in itself pretty much supports how he's, by GT, clearly weaker than Goku and Vegeta.

Does GT reference movie 13? If not, we could argue that GT Trunks got his sword under different circumstances.

[Conan the SSJ]

I think you've nailed it there Conan.

Many thanks.

Does GT reference movie 13? If not, we could argue that GT Trunks got his sword under different circumstances.

Well, not in dialogue, but there are some clear 'inferences'. For example, Goku uses the Dragon Fist technique a few times through out GT, which he first demonstrated in movie 13. Also, Trunks' GT sword which can be assumed is the one Tapion gave him, is seen in the DAN DAN opening theme and Final Bout game's opening. While not part of onscreen material for the series, they support that he still has that sword around and probably uses it at times offscreen. Plus there's the fact the movie arguably fits just as well with the anime time-frame as almost any other.

[chibi_goten]

Gohan should have been able to destroy Kid Boo with ease, though. If his energy, combined with everybody else (minus the regular humans) still isn't enough to take out Boo, I really don't think he had the power up as of then.

Alrighty then, not considering movie 13.

You're right, Gohan should have been able to take out Boo with ease, then again, Gohan never directly fought against him. He just donates energy, we don't know how much, we just know it's a lot more then everybody else.

When Goku launches the Genki-dama into Boo, he powers up and adds his own energy to it to finish him off for sure. We don't really know how much of a difference Gohan makes at this point, there's not really any facts.

Going to the Daizenshuu though, it states Gohan is the most powerfull character at the end of the series, i'd assume it's in his mystic form though, seeing as he can't go SSJ 3 and wasn't as powerfull as Goku, before the power up.

[Travis Touchdown]

due to the lack of training for 15 years.

That's debatable. Sure, unlike Goku, Gohan is a much better father and provider for his family, but who's to say he didn't train when he had free time in his busy life? Pan had to get her training from somewhere in Goku's absence. Meanwhile, Vegeta kept on progressively getting stronger, and while Gohan is weaker than Vegeta, he's not weaker by much. He's up there with Vegeta still. Plus he took on Super Saiyan Bebi Goten in his base for the majority of the fight.

[Conan the SSJ]

That's debatable. Sure, unlike Goku, Gohan is a much better father and provider for his family, but who's to say he didn't train when he had free time in his busy life? Pan had to get her training from somewhere in Goku's absence. Meanwhile, Vegeta kept on progressively getting stronger, and while Gohan is weaker than Vegeta, he's not weaker by much. He's up there with Vegeta still. Plus he took on Super Saiyan Bebi Goten in his base for the majority of the fight.

I don't think anyone's arguing Gohan didn't train at all, at least I'm not anyhow. He was clearly still in good shape and powerful in his own right, not to mention when Vegeta indicates Gohan hasn't "slacked off" quite as much as Goten and Trunks when he recruits them for the Black-Star Dragonballs journey. However, I think it is safe to say he didn't train near-enough to get stronger or maintain his Ultimate ability. At the least, movie 13 confirms this to me since it wasn't just a case of "dying takes away the power". Movie 13 was only a year after the events with Buu, whereas the battle with Baby-Goten is arguably between 15-20 years later. That's a much bigger time gap when considering Gohan devoted the most of his time to his scholar career and loving to his family; as opposed to Goku in the former respect, whom had no career outside of gardening and winning one tournament.

[chibi_goten]

I'm sure Gohan trained, though it's clear that he didn't maintain the same fitness/strength that he achieved at the end of Z. I don't think dying had an affect on his ability to use his ''mystic'' form at the end of Z, or movie 13 if we're including that too.

I think we can only say that we don't see it in GT due to,

A/ Lack of training..

B/ It's only temporary.

Or, we can take the easy option and take away the discussion and go with,

C/ Plot hole.

[Wojak]

Well, ever since he got the "mystic" powerup, he looks like a SSJ, but in baseform, and he never loses that appearance, not even after he died.
And about the genkidama thing: maybe they needed a helluva lot power to destroy Kid Buu, who was being resilient like a rat, and he didn't seem to lose chi either.
Only Vegetto managed to completely oliberate parts of Buu.

[Kaboom]

Easiest answer: "It's GT," and/or Toei wouldn't allow for a hero stronger than Goku.

Futile attempt at an in-universe answer: It wore off. Far as I can see it, Gohan's "Mystic" powerup was just a nice sizable boost that rearranged his power, compacting it all into his base and axing his Super Saiyan forms. Over time, due to misuse, his power may have degraded and reverted to the same arrangement it previously had. He may have retained some of the raw power he gained, but no longer in the nice, convenient, more easily-usable package it was once in.

Analogy time: It's like if Gohan's power is water, Old Kaio's ritual gathered it up and froze it into one big ice cube, and over time it melted and spread back all over the place.

[JulieYBM]

Makes one wonder if Toei meant for SSj Gohan to mean he was some sort of Ultimate SSj, but were just too incompetant to properly explain it...


...nah.

[Shineman]

I agree with every one's thoughts about this. I say that Gohan is still Mystic, just well weaker due to lack of training. Not that he never train, just that he didn't trained enough to maintain that power.
So it can be
A: Still has mystic, but weaker due to lack of Training
B: He lost it for some unknown reason
C: it Dragonball, anything can happen . Like Vegeta's Brother table(Tarble) for example.

[Rocketman]

Makes one wonder if Toei meant for SSj Gohan to mean he was some sort of Ultimate SSj, but were just too incompetant to properly explain it...


...nah.

Since Toei hates Vegeta more than Gohan, but still had Vegeta easily beating the shit out of him...

[Dayspring]

Here's my attempt at an in-story answer (though I prefer the "wore off pre-Genkidama" belief) to hammer out something that works with the Genkidama, movie 13, and GT continuity:

It's once per lifetime. As we see, it's activated by going SSJ, so powering down also deactivates it. Thus Gohan lost it either when he was freed from Boo, or killed by Boo. Gohan is wished back to life, giving him another chance to use the power up. He doesn't, however, which is why the Genkidama is so weak when he contributes energy to it. In movie 13, we see him power up, using his one time. At some point between that battle and GT, he powers down, which causes him to permanently lose it. In GT he uses powers up again, but because it's once per lifetime, this results in a regular SSJ transformation instead.

[Wojak]

Here's my attempt at an in-story answer (though I prefer the "wore off pre-Genkidama" belief) to hammer out something that works with the Genkidama, movie 13, and GT continuity:

It's once per lifetime. As we see, it's activated by going SSJ, so powering down also deactivates it. Thus Gohan lost it either when he was freed from Boo, or killed by Boo. Gohan is wished back to life, giving him another chance to use the power up. He doesn't, however, which is why the Genkidama is so weak when he contributes energy to it. In movie 13, we see him power up, using his one time. At some point between that battle and GT, he powers down, which causes him to permanently lose it. In GT he uses powers up again, but because it's once per lifetime, this results in a regular SSJ transformation instead.

But that doesn't explain the change in his appearance. that he looks like a SSJ but is in his base form. And he keeps this appearance ever since he got his Mystic Powerup.