Xenophobia: How does it impact the DragonBall fanbase?

[B]

I really come across the opposite; people who can't stand English anything when it comes to a Japanese product. Of course, Dragon Ball, and other half-assed dubs of the late 90's and early 00's are preferred in their chopped and screwed glory. For these types of circusmtances, people just nostalgia hard.

Another point I think is semi-important is the example first shown was a video game, and that community has a slightly different approach to Japanese things in their games, and localization in general. I've never heard a single person in my life complain that Gouki became "Akuma," Biohazard became "Resident Evil," or that Rockman became "Mega Man."

[Bussani]

I've never heard a single person in my life complain that Gouki became "Akuma,"

This one's odd. They essentially swapped one Japanese name for another. I don't complain about Akuma though. Maybe it's just because that's how I was introduced to him, but I think it suits him.

or that Rockman became "Mega Man."

Well, it did kill the rock n roll pun, but I guess I don't worry about it.

[Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece]

I don't really mind the voices in the Japanese version, it's just that I don't like the Japanese score for DragonBall Z. The original score for DragonBall and GT are alright, but for some reason I just don't like Z's.

Doesn't stop me from watching it though.

See, this is another one that I just don't get. It's the exact same composer, exact same style, and early on in Z, some of the exact same songs between DB & DBZ.

You can't say it's the "style" of the show, because 23rd Tenka-ichi Budokai is bloodier than most Z-era stuff. It probably isn't the "tone", because once Piccolo-Daimao shows up, it's death-death-death-destruction-sadness-death-RAWR.

I firmly believe it's because that was the only choice FUNimation presented to fans, and that's why they don't mind it in the original DB. It's the exact same mindset like what they know as "the" DBZ. I guarantee that if there was a changed audio track for DB, the original score would be detested just like in DBZ.

I continue to believe that, like most countries throughout the world, the American population would have been able to deal with, accept, and enjoy the original score for DBZ if they had just been given it from the beginning.

(Note that this post has absolutely nothing to do with the quality or enjoyment of any particular FUNimation dub score.)

I don't know, it's just a weird feeling I get when I watch Z.

I mean, I don't mind Kai's score, and some pieces in Z are extremely emotional and fitting (same with many instances where there is a lack of music), but there are many bits that I don't enjoy, especially in battles.

I don't know how to explain it, it's like the music isn't really exciting to me.

I usually read the manga, so I end up listening to my own music anyway (the Blue Dragon, Brawl and Gurren Lagann soundtracks most of the time).

[Olivier Hague]

I've never heard a single person in my life complain that Gouki became "Akuma," Biohazard became "Resident Evil," or that Rockman became "Mega Man."

Well, I'm right here, you just need to ask. ;þ

I don't complain about Akuma though. Maybe it's just because that's how I was introduced to him, but I think it suits him.

He's Japanese and he's a bad guy, so "akuma" does "fit", I guess... It's also ridiculous, compared to the original name.

Imagine the reversed scenario:
Street Fighter is an American series of fighting games, and it introduces a new (US) hidden character who appears to be the most powerful one around (story-wise) and might be linked to the (US) main character. He has a relatively evocative and well-thought English name.
The game gets released in Japan, and the character is now called "EVILMAN". Because he's American. And apparently evil. And a man. So it "fits".

[jjgp1112]

It certainly can be a reason some people will reject the Japanese track. But it's also not the ONLY reason to do so. I know with most of my anime, I watch dubbed in English. It's not that I can't, or fear, the Japanese subtitlted track. For DBZ that's the only way I'll watch the show, and I have looked at subbed tracks for all of the anime I own.

In my case, its simply easier to watch and listen then to focus in on the screen at all times to read text. It's not hard to read text, but it doesn't let me be lazy and relax while I watch. It is for that reason I generally watch things in English dubbed form (excepting when the dub is unwatchable hence DBZ's case).

With games that give the language option, since it's a more active activity, I'm split down the middle. When it comes to Soul Calibur I'm liable to leave it in English, but Street Fighter IV? I switched it to Japanese pretty quickly. It really just comes down to which sounds better to me in games.

Basically, this. If I understood Japanese, I would watch it in that if I felt like it. But it's just hard to keep up with things when having to read a subtitle track and watch the show at the same time.

I think that's where Innagadadavida nailed it with:

Why should one care about the original version? If somebody is perfectly content casually playing a game or watching a show, what purpose is there to put forth the effort in learning more about the original?

At the same time, like Olivier Hague justly noted... if they're going to take that route, they can't in their right mind turn around and somehow demand we're not supposed to enjoy our own choices.

For other hardcore-FUNimation fans that got into it relatively-early, it's funny to see how certain words or phrases stemming from the original Japanese version don't bug them. I personally have never seen anyone get annoyed by the name-spelling "Kaioshin". I'm going to assume that they got into it so early before FUNimation had set their own dub-precedent with "Supreme Kai" that seeing "Kaioshin" continue to be used just didn't matter; it was already common-knowledge in their head.

On the other hand, those that got into it and never had any familiarity with names/words/phrases like "Saiya-jin" (even a correctly-pronounced "Saiyan") like those of us already with over-a-decade's-worth of familiarity and usage... they flip their lids. It's like a robotic "DOES NOT COMPUTE" comes up in their head, followed by a violent reaction.

I also think Meri's assessment from the latest podcast rings true with a lot of the younger (also older & less mature) fans, too: they don't want to be made to feel stupid. Really, by using those terms, we are essentially making them feel stupid. They feel like they know stuff, someone is using a different word to explain it, and their pride gets hurt. Cue same violent reaction mentioned before.

For me, I fall into the second category, at least the firs part of it. I got into DBZ with no knowledge of the Japanese terms. Hell, I didn't even know DBZ was anime (hell, I didn't even know what anime was) until my friend gave me that Pojo magazine and they talked about the Japanese version frequently. So when I heard stuff like Supreme Kai first and then saw it listed as Kaioshin, I just kinda put two-and-two together since I already knew that King Kai would be Kaio-Sama. And when I saw Saiya-Jin, I just figured that it's just the japanese terminology and I don't think much of it.

[jjgp1112]

*um, can you delete this, Mike?*

[VegettoEX]

Basically, this. If I understood Japanese, I would watch it in that if I felt like it. But it's just hard to keep up with things when having to read a subtitle track and watch the show at the same time.

I hate to keep challenging things (who am I kidding... no I don't!), but that's another one I've never bought even for a second.

We read the dialogue in subtitles faster than they speak it, unless you're (1) illiterate, or (2) reading subs in a language that is not your native one. You read it, your brain processes it, and you're back to paying attention to the pretty animation far quicker than they've even delivered the dialogue. Hell, in some respects, that's a one-up over the original Japanese audience who have to WAIT for the dialogue to be SPOKEN!

Specifically with older shows like DBZ, there's hardly any animation to even speak of in the first place (it's animated at 12 fps and doubled to film, right? something like that?), so reading that dialogue is barely making a dent in your "missing" stuff.

I seriously think people just make up excuses as to why they don't want to watch a series in its native language, anime or not, DBZ or not. Is it a defense mechanism?

[jjgp1112]

Basically, this. If I understood Japanese, I would watch it in that if I felt like it. But it's just hard to keep up with things when having to read a subtitle track and watch the show at the same time.

I hate to keep challenging things (who am I kidding... no I don't!), but that's another one I've never bought even for a second.

We read the dialogue in subtitles faster than they speak it, unless you're (1) illiterate, or (2) reading subs in a language that is not your native one. You read it, your brain processes it, and you're back to paying attention to the pretty animation far quicker than they've even delivered the dialogue. Hell, in some respects, that's a one-up over the original Japanese audience who have to WAIT for the dialogue to be SPOKEN!

Specifically with older shows like DBZ, there's hardly any animation to even speak of in the first place (it's animated at 12 fps and doubled to film, right? something like that?), so reading that dialogue is barely making a dent in your "missing" stuff.

I seriously think people just make up excuses as to why they don't want to watch a series in its native language, anime or not, DBZ or not. Is it a defense mechanism?

Well, it's sort of like what Innagad (oh fuck it, I can't spell it) said. It's just easier to process stuff in your mind when you're watching TV if you can hear and understand things instead of having to read everything all the time. I mean, if I'm reading a book, then there's no problem. But when I'm watching TV? It's easier to just listen to everything instead of hearing what's basically gibberish to me and having to read crap to know what's going on.

[JulieYBM]

On the subject, if you listen to Japanese enough you eventually get use to understanding a few things. At least I did in school when we would watch shows and movies (Miyazaki, Gambatte Ikimashoi, Dragon Zakura, Gundam...).

Another thing I don't buy--and forgive me, the topic reminded me--is thw whole "I need to hear it in my own language to understand the acting." The idea that you won't be able to understand the acting of a foreign actor is pretty ridiculous. When Freeza destroy's Planet Vegeta, I'm pretty sure we all recognize he's elated. Or when Piccolo finds out Uiro has be controlling his mind, that he's pissed.

[The Tori-bot]

Well, it's sort of like what Innagad (oh fuck it, I can't spell it)

"~Innagadadavida, honey... don't you know that I luh-huvv you-hoo~"

*Will Graham jumps through the window (shattering the glass) and shoots Francis Dollarhyde dead (unlike in the novel, in which Dolarhyde comes to Graham's house, Graham runs away and leaves his wife and kid to take care of him, but we can't have that in '80s action-thriller Hollywood, can we?)*

If you get that, have five cookies and a beer and put it on my tab.

Anyway, uh... yeah, what Mike said. I think that also has something to do with people thinking that they're misssing something by watching the subtitles instead of up at where most of the main action is taking place.

[Wojak]

We read the dialogue in subtitles faster than they speak it, unless you're (1) illiterate, or (2) reading subs in a language that is not your native one.

3) Or if you have ADD.

Seriously, I don't like your reasons for not being able to watch the Japanese version with subtitles at all.
You don't have to be illiterate not to be able to read the subtitles and you can pretty sure read subtitles perfectly in a language that isn't your native one.

There are people that are better listeners than readers and it's a matter of comfort which they chose. And some people, believe it or not, can't follow sound and subtitles at once, even if the subtitles are showing prior to the dialouge.
Myself, I am an excellent reader, and an excellent listener, but I can't do those things combined that well, and I know lots of people that are that way.

My native language is Swedish, and having subtitles with the Swedish movie in Swedish won't work for me at all. I can't follow the story.
That's why I have learned so many languages, 'cause I haven't got that ability.

No offence, but I don't buy your explanation at all.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Personally for me I don't think having the Japanese voices makes it anymore valuable or fun. For me its not a selling point, I could careless if it was added in or not.

That being said I don't have any objections if developers decided to add it in because I know there are people who care. So its not hurting anybody by adding in the voices so really what difference does it make?

The kid may be a little over the top with his comment but he has one valid point. What does it matter if its their or not? a lot of people will by the game and only play the Japanese tracks and bash the English VA's calling them shit. I know they are extremist too but what does it matter?

I play the English tracks because I speak English and its just the obvious choice. What I want to know is why is it so special to have the Japanese tracks?

[Innagadadavida]

it really brings my piss to a boil when I see people say: "all dubs suck."

Ah, but that's true. To different degrees, sure, but still. ^___^

This is the equivalent to blind Japanese hate on the other side. This is the type of ignorance that confuses me. The same way somebody who says "all the voices sound like girls," confuses those who prefer Japanese audio.

[VegettoEX]

I unfortunately don't really follow you, Wojak . Can anyone else clarify that for me?

I play the English tracks because I speak English and its just the obvious choice. What I want to know is why is it so special to have the Japanese tracks?

I honestly cannot comprehend how this is the "obvious" choice. To me, the default/immediate/first/"obvious" choice is to switch it to Japanese. DBZ is Japanese, so I'll play it in Japanese. It's clearly not a blanket decision.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I play the English tracks because I speak English and its just the obvious choice. What I want to know is why is it so special to have the Japanese tracks?

I honestly cannot comprehend how this is the "obvious" choice. To me, the default/immediate/first/"obvious" choice is to switch it to Japanese. DBZ is Japanese, so I'll play it in Japanese. It's clearly not a blanket decision.

Ok regardless of its origin my background is the English Language. Therefore its only natural that I would want to listen to the dialog in English. Sure Dragonball has its roots in Japan and I respect that but Id prefer to hear the dialog in English. Just like any other person out their in the world, I'd prefer things to be in my native tongue so I can understand them easily.

If I knew Japanese maybe I wouldn't mind listening to the dialog in Japanese but I don't so I won't if I have the choice. I can read subs just fine but I prefer the dubs because it just feels right.

[Innagadadavida]

I play the English tracks because I speak English and its just the obvious choice. What I want to know is why is it so special to have the Japanese tracks?

I honestly cannot comprehend how this is the "obvious" choice. To me, the default/immediate/first/"obvious" choice is to switch it to Japanese. DBZ is Japanese, so I'll play it in Japanese. It's clearly not a blanket decision.

Well, let's use a personal example. It's like you said in the podcast somewhere, you enjoy watching the Street Fighter movie in English despite the dub taking liberties. You said so because that's what you watched it as when you were younger.

If you had the option and knowledge at that age, would you have chosen the Japanese version first?

I think, with subbies, it's more of a matter of association. When somebody gets accustomed to a different language in their entertainment, they start to associate all Japanese animation with the Japanese language. That's why hearing a dub becomes distracting and feels wrong. That's probably where the "all dubs suck" comes from too.

Of course, that's just a theory. I can't say for sure one way or the other.

[Darknat]

I'm with VeggetoEx on this one. I get that line lots of times: "I can't read and watch a show at the same time."

That's normal, I couldn't do it at first either. Sometimes subtitles dissapeared before I could read them. But also when I was a kid I couldn't read as fast as I can now. Everything needs a bit of practice. After watching a few episodes you can get used to it. After a few more you can even watch the scene and read the subtitles at the same time without missing anything.

And Innagadadavida, what Olivier was probably trying to say there is that dubs are worse than the original versions, so "all dubs suck" in a way. I don't think he means that the dub itself is bad, but compared with the original version, it won't be as good.

I don't like dubs because the translations usually are not good, or the acting is not that good either at times. That's the reason why I learned english in the first place.

Talking about Dragon Ball in particular, I watched the Valencian dub, and then the spanish one, and when I finally got my hands on the japanese one I was really surprised. The attack names was something missing from those dubs, the way the characters were refering to Goku was another thing. Some called him just Son instead of Goku like those dubs did. To sum it up, I finally watched Dragon Ball when I watched it in japanese. And that goes for every show I watched before or since.

[VegettoEX]

Ok regardless of its origin my background is the English Language. Therefore its only natural that I would want to listen to the dialog in English. Sure Dragonball has its roots in Japan and I respect that but Id prefer to hear the dialog in English. Just like any other person out their in the world, I'd prefer things to be in my native tongue so I can understand them easily.

If I knew Japanese maybe I wouldn't mind listening to the dialog in Japanese but I don't so I won't if I have the choice. I can read subs just fine but I prefer the dubs because it just feels right.

Your statements are pretty similar to what Corey was talking about in his initial post. They don't make a whole lot of sense (well, perhaps they do to you), but there's an equal amount on the other side of the fence.

I'm from the US and my primary language is English, yet I would never once think to play/watch DBZ in English if I had the choice. There are plenty of other forum members/visitors/listeners from countries throughout the world with entirely different primary languages, countries of origin, etc. that also wouldn't think twice and immediately do so in Japanese.

Of course, you could argue that there's a huge amount who'd play it with their own local dub, too.

The question is really... why? You keep answering "because I speak English" or "I'm from America". That doesn't concretely answer the question, though, because there's an equally-massed audience that sees it entirely differently.

That leads me to believe there inherently can't be a blanket statement/answer to the question, and is ultimately up to the individual. That's further complicated, though, by our poking holes through all of those individual arguments and justifications.

Well, let's use a personal example. It's like you said in the podcast somewhere, you enjoy watching the Street Fighter movie in English despite the dub taking liberties. You said so because that's what you watched it as when you were younger.

If you had the option and knowledge at that age, would you have chosen the Japanese version first?

(Emphasis in above quote my own).

Without a doubt. It was entirely unavailable beyond fansub VHS which I didn't know about at the time, so that's all there was. When I did find out there was a Japanese version available? GRABBED. IMMEDIATELY. Furthermore, it had nothing to do with the extended Chun-Li scene .

For me, it's always been that if I know there's a prior/original work... why on Earth would I bother with the derivative one?

[JulieYBM]

For me, it's always been that if I know there's a prior/original work... why on Earth would I bother with the derivative one?

Out of blantant curiousity, you have previously mentioned there to be dubs you do like. Does your above phraseology indicate a lack of interest in checking out dubs of other shows? From the podcast I can vaguely recollect you guys once answering a question about what dubs you do like, or maybe if there were original versions you disliked, or might that only extend to dubs you've from your youth (Ranma, being one I recollect).

Now that I've made a simple question somewhat throughly perplexing, I'll end this post.

[VegettoEX]

For me, it's always been that if I know there's a prior/original work... why on Earth would I bother with the derivative one?

Out of blantant curiousity, you have previously mentioned there to be dubs you do like. Does your above phraseology indicate a lack of interest in checking out dubs of other shows? From the podcast I can vaguely recollect you guys once answering a question about what dubs you do like, or maybe if there were original versions you disliked, or might that only extend to dubs you've from your youth (Ranma, being one I recollect).

Now that I've made a simple question somewhat throughly perplexing, I'll end this post.

Yeah, I'll very rarely actively watch a show in any kind of dubbed form if it's not something being viewed almost entirely in an ironic sense as something from my youth.

It's entirely different these days with the availability of something in Japanese the day it airs in Japan, and the more-or-less "norm" of hybrid DVDs; a dub is effectively rendered irrelevant.

There will be the occasional "nostalgic viewing" of an older dub, but if I'm going to watch something for realz, it's not going to be a "reversioning" of it.

It all just comes back to, "OK, this is how it was originally created, so that's the way I'd like to see it." It doesn't matter if it's DBZ in Japanese, a kung-fu flick in Cantonese, Life is Beautiful in Italian (which I still haven't seen ), a Bollywood film in whatever local variant it's in, etc.