Better Sound Quality on Original Run of DBZ in Japan

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:06 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:I love how the majority of in-house DBOX enthusiasts are basically avoiding this thread like the plague. The fact that you have irrefutable evidence of the original airing's superior audio must make them cry inside.

Regardless, this is just another piece of evidence (along with the colors fiasco) that solidifies the fact that the DBOX is far from being the "perfect" release.

Not perfect, but the best damn official release there is by far!

Smooth Criminal · Post by **Smooth Criminal** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:17 am

Wasn't Dragonball Z TOEI's number one show for almost its entire run? You mean to suggest that they just discarded those magnetic master audio tapes, as if they were trash?

I find that hard to believe. If they took so much care in putting the original film prints in cold storage, why would they not preserve the best audio possible in a similar storage method? Perhaps the audio we got on the boxes was just laziness on their part... ?

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:10 am

Kendamu wrote:
Smooth Criminal wrote:I love how the majority of in-house DBOX enthusiasts are basically avoiding this thread like the plague. The fact that you have irrefutable evidence of the original airing's superior audio must make them cry inside.

Regardless, this is just another piece of evidence (along with the colors fiasco) that solidifies the fact that the DBOX is far from being the "perfect" release.
Not perfect, but the best damn official release there is by far!

Yeah it's the best now, but also far from perfect.

The issues of DBOX releases I've found so far:
-Low Sound Quality on TV Series
-Colour Problem on Early Episodes
-Positioning of Next Episode Previews
-Missing Footage (Some trailers, previews, textless OP/ED)
-Cropped Footage on Movies

Smooth Criminal wrote:Wasn't Dragonball Z TOEI's number one show for almost its entire run? You mean to suggest that they just discarded those magnetic master audio tapes, as if they were trash?

I find that hard to believe. If they took so much care in putting the original film prints in cold storage, why would they not preserve the best audio possible in a similar storage method? Perhaps the audio we got on the boxes was just laziness on their part... ?

Storing issue happens on many occasions in Japanese broadcasting scenes because of the narrow country and high property prices. Partially it can't be helped. Or Toei was just not enough enthusiastic to scare up the existing master tapes and synchronize all of them with picture. If that's the case, they should be condemned by their customers.

biohazard · Post by **biohazard** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:11 am

Here, in Catalunya (Spain) Dragon ball is aired in DUAL mode (you can switch between the dubbed language and the original Japanese)

Episodes 40-64 of Dragon Ball GT were aired with an excellent Japanese audio quality (at the level of DBK but in monoaural instead of stereo)
And if you check the recent Spanish DBGT DVD release, you'll find some episodes (episode 10-20 approximately) with that impeccable quality in the original Japanese dub.

I noticed that lack of quality in the audio of the japanese releases, too... It's quite frustrating because we now know there is an audio with better quality somewhere.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:16 am

kei17 wrote: Yeah it's the best now, but also far from perfect.

Well, yeah. That's what I said.

-Cropped Footage on Movies

Weren't the movies made for 16:9, anyway?

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:55 am

biohazard wrote:Here, in Catalunya (Spain) Dragon ball is aired in DUAL mode (you can switch between the dubbed language and the original Japanese)

Episodes 40-64 of Dragon Ball GT were aired with an excellent Japanese audio quality (at the level of DBK but in monoaural instead of stereo)
And if you check the recent Spanish DBGT DVD release, you'll find some episodes (episode 10-20 approximately) with that impeccable quality in the original Japanese dub.

I noticed that lack of quality in the audio of the japanese releases, too... It's quite frustrating because we now know there is an audio with better quality somewhere.

I heard about DUAL sounds broadcasting in Catalunya before. Now it's confirmed. Thanks. Can you rip some clips from Spanish DVD?

Kendamu wrote:
-Cropped Footage on Movies
Weren't the movies made for 16:9, anyway?

Last year, Toei released the old movie of Hokuto no Ken in 4:3 aspect ratio though they had never released it in 4:3. Fuji TV aired all DB movies in 4:3. In addition, my brother and I remember seeing some DBZ movies in 4:3 at a nearby music centre. They showed it, we saw it, but never released. Don't you think it's sort of unkind?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:05 am

kei17 wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
-Cropped Footage on Movies
Weren't the movies made for 16:9, anyway?
Last year, Toei released the old movie of Hokuto no Ken in 4:3 aspect ratio though they had never released it in 4:3. Fuji TV aired all DB movies in 4:3. In addition, my brother and I remember seeing some DBZ movies in 4:3 at a nearby music centre. They showed it, we saw it, but never released. Don't you think it's sort of unkind?

That really all depends on the intended aspect ratio.

When you crop it to 16:9, you don't get mistakes like that one.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:25 am

Kendamu wrote:That really all depends on the intended aspect ratio.

When you crop it to 16:9, you don't get mistakes like that one.

So what? That's just a mistake on filming and doesn't matter whether they should release the movies in 16:9 or not. I am saying they were drawn and filmed for being showed also in 4:3 ratio.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:28 am

kei17 wrote:So what? That's just a mistake and doesn't matter whether they should release the movies in 16:9 or not. I am saying they were drawn and filmed for being showed also in 4:3 ratio.

Then why's releasing the Dragonball movies in 16:9 considered a "flaw" then? Just because they're the only ones?

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:53 am

Now two examples from Hokuto No Ken. They messed the audio even on the HD remastered BOX. So it's not their stint.

Ripped from Original Run
http://www.4shared.com/file/125598741/5 ... toVHS.html
Ripped from HD Remastered Box
http://www.4shared.com/file/125598752/d ... toDVD.html

Ripped from Original Run
http://www.4shared.com/file/125603454/6 ... ouVHS.html
Ripped from HD Remastered Box
http://www.4shared.com/file/125603466/a ... ouDVD.html
(This one is in stereo and the timing of BGM differs a little so maybe you think it's fake, but the BGM is an unreleased one.)

Kendamu wrote:
kei17 wrote:So what? That's just a mistake and doesn't matter whether they should release the movies in 16:9 or not. I am saying they were drawn and filmed for being showed also in 4:3 ratio.
Then why's releasing the Dragonball movies in 16:9 considered a "flaw" then? Just because they're the only ones?

The movies were made and filmed in 4:3 and also showed that way, so they have no occasion to release them in 16:9. To make them look better? To release the 4:3 edition after? So what difference does it make between FUNi's cropped shit and Toei's? The only difference is that movies were also supposed to be shown in 16:9 format so you have no problem with seeing them in 16:9. Maybe this is the point you care most. However, at least, they should release the stuff in the way how it exists and if they don't, it's just their omission or a goddamn stint that should be blamed.

ChibiGoku · Post by **ChibiGoku** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:33 am

You know, this does make me wonder something...

For DBZ and GT, were the International Channel broadcasts also with the same audio quality?

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:39 am

ChibiGoku wrote:You know, this does make me wonder something...

For DBZ and GT, were the International Channel broadcasts also with the same audio quality?

kei17 wrote:
Puto wrote:How's the audio quality in the animax reruns of DBZ?
On all reruns after the original broadcast, it sounds almost same as on DBOX. Only original run has the superior sound quality.

I guess that answers your question?

ChibiGoku · Post by **ChibiGoku** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:45 am

Puto wrote:
ChibiGoku wrote:You know, this does make me wonder something...

For DBZ and GT, were the International Channel broadcasts also with the same audio quality?

kei17 wrote:
Puto wrote:How's the audio quality in the animax reruns of DBZ?
On all reruns after the original broadcast, it sounds almost same as on DBOX. Only original run has the superior sound quality.
I guess that answers your question?

Well, perhaps. Though I'd like to see exact proof of the International Channel broadcasts, Puto, as to how the sound quality was. I know it was FujiTV who supplied the network the tapes, being part of the reason why I mention this (as it was some sort of deal with the network to air it, as I recall).

Post by **Herms** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:56 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:I love how the majority of in-house DBOX enthusiasts are basically avoiding this thread like the plague. The fact that you have irrefutable evidence of the original airing's superior audio must make them cry inside. In this instance, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the damage control police to come flooding in. :lol:

You've got a strange, strange view of things. For one, Corey's already replied, so who exactly are you talking about by "in-house DBOX enthusiasts"? And in as much as Kei17 and a few others are the only ones with access to these tapes of the original run, it should make us all cry inside if their sound quality is so much better.

BUFF Trunks · Post by **BUFF Trunks** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:01 am

kei17 wrote:
Kendamu wrote:That really all depends on the intended aspect ratio.

When you crop it to 16:9, you don't get mistakes like that one.
So what? That's just a mistake on filming and doesn't matter whether they should release the movies in 16:9 or not. I am saying they were drawn and filmed for being showed also in 4:3 ratio.

That shot is actually like that in the Pioneer Tree of Might DVD?

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:42 pm

I always thought that it would make sense if DVDs had some option to force a letterbox over a piece of 4:3 footage so users could choose whether or not they wanted to letterbox it. I think all of us know the movies were drawn in 4:3, even if they aired in theaters--and cut some corners--as 16:9. I dunno, I just always thought it made more sense than forcing the crop; it's ultimately up to the viewer if they mind seeing an energy beam or an arm slightly cut off against nothing.

With that said, I don't mind; as far as I'm concerned, it's a small price to pay for getting the extra bit of footage.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:50 pm

Tweaker wrote:I always thought that it would make sense if DVDs had some option to force a letterbox over a piece of 4:3 footage so users could choose whether or not they wanted to letterbox it.

While that makes sense in theory, you wouldn't be able to do it properly without two entirely separate video tracks.

If you "force" the widescreen matte on top of the video, this restrains the video to a 4:3 native aspect ratio. Played back on a widescreen display, you'll end up with pillar bars on the side of letterboxing:

If you want to take advantage of the encoding space available to you (by this I mean screen/window size, rather than digital bits for storage), the optimal way to do a widescreen presentation is really via an anamorphic transfer. On DVDs, this encodes the video as "full screen" at the complete 720x480, and then on-the-fly resizes it to the "proper" aspect ratio based on whatever display it's being played on... so if it's a 4:3 display, it adds the top/bottom letterboxes, and if it's a widescreen display, it plays it full screen (or with minor letterboxing if it's wider than 16:9).

I mean, sure... you can always manually zoom-in with your hardware (DVD/Blu-ray player, etc.) a 4:3 image to a cropped 16:9... but that's never going to be as rich in detail as the original encode being done anamorphic in the first place. Then again, if it's natively 4:3 (hello, DBZ TV series!)... that's how I want it displayed.

Therefore, the movies are a tricky bunch.

Does any of that even make sense...?

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:56 pm

Actually, that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation.

Here's another question, then--considering that FUNimation is re-releasing single versions of all of the Dragon Ball Z movies again, wouldn't it make sense for them to try something like this? It would certainly make the releases unique compared to the other ones they've released.

Then again... it's really just occurred to me that the casual viewer is hardly going to care what resolution the footage is in, or even how far the film is zoomed in... or about anything outside of the movie just being reasonably watchable.

It'd still be cool, though.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:02 pm

Smooth Criminal wrote:I love how the majority of in-house DBOX enthusiasts are basically avoiding this thread like the plague. The fact that you have irrefutable evidence of the original airing's superior audio must make them cry inside. In this instance, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the damage control police to come flooding in.

Regardless, this is just another piece of evidence (along with the colors fiasco) that solidifies the fact that the DBOX is far from being the "perfect" release.

I've never seen anyone say Dbox was perfect, just the best.

The audio quality difference would be heard compared to any other DVD release also.

That said it really IS sad that they let such audio quality just disappear on one of the most popular anime series' of all time.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:09 pm

Tweaker wrote:Here's another question, then--considering that FUNimation is re-releasing single versions of all of the Dragon Ball Z movies again, wouldn't it make sense for them to try something like this?(

Oh, it definitely would be neat and at least partially differentiate itself from prior releases... but I'm pretty sure we know they scanned in all their faux-"remasterings" at a 16:9 aspect ratio, so there's nothing "new" in 4:3 they could toss on.

Bringing it back to the original topic...

Herms wrote:
Smooth Criminal wrote:I love how the majority of in-house DBOX enthusiasts are basically avoiding this thread like the plague. The fact that you have irrefutable evidence of the original airing's superior audio must make them cry inside. In this instance, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the damage control police to come flooding in.
You've got a strange, strange view of things. For one, Corey's already replied, so who exactly are you talking about by "in-house DBOX enthusiasts"? And in as much as Kei17 and a few others are the only ones with access to these tapes of the original run, it should make us all cry inside if their sound quality is so much better.

I'm with you, Herms. That's certainly a strange outlook, and more-or-less plays the cliché role of a diehard FUNimation loyalist always being the first to jump on and attack the other side without thorough research.

What I think you're meaning by "DBOX enthusiasts" is "educated fans looking out for the best interest of the franchise"... right? Honestly, I'm pretty sure that if any Dragon Box owner (someone who's spent the time and resources necessary to get the series in that quality) found another version with genuinely superior audio/video/whatever... they'd be excited about it.

'Cuz, ya' know, that's how it is over here in reality.

Perhaps it's because this audience has a larger vested-interest in doing educated comparisons and analysis that there hasn't yet been enough time to do a full-scale comparison and discussion? Sure, that stereotypes the (as I've called them) "diehard FUNimation loyalist" group as the morbid scavengers always ready to jump in any pick away at whatever they can find with no rhyme or reason, but didn't your post just prove that?