Strongest un-fused character

[goku the krump dancer]

I believe that Goku, Gohan, and Gotenks are equal. If that were not true then why would absorbing Gotenks mean anything? Gohan was dominated after the absorption. Secondly if Gohan was so much stronger than Goku than why not absorb Goku so he can fight Gohan whos stronger rather than absorb Gohan and fight Goku who's suposedly a lot weaker.

[B]

I believe that Goku, Gohan, and Gotenks are equal. If that were not true then why would absorbing Gotenks mean anything? Gohan was dominated after the absorption. Secondly if Gohan was so much stronger than Goku than why not absorb Goku so he can fight Gohan whos stronger rather than absorb Gohan and fight Goku who's suposedly a lot weaker.

1) No. Gotenks at the third stage of Super Saiyan could not do what Gohan without even using the transformation could do. It's simple logic. Gohan is stronger than Gotenks. Undisputable.
2) SS3 Gotenks is more or less Evil Buu's equal, as stated by Piccolo(correct me if he didn't). Gotenks's total power and range of abilities integrated with Buu's strength would definately give Buu some sort of edge. And it did.
3) Yes, Gohan was dominant after the absorption. Of course, Goten and Trunks had split before Buu absorbed Gohan, so I don't see what point you're trying to make. It argues against your statement that Gohan and Gotenks are equals.
4) Now that Piccolo was the dominant "absorbee," Buu's power had dramatically decreased. I doubt he was more worried about a challenging foe more than his life. At that moment, he had to make a chocie or else Goku and Gohan would've fused, and he would have been fucked. Plus, from a tactical standpoint anyway, absorbing Goku at his base probably still wouldn't have been able to tackle Gohan, since Goku couldn't even handle a significantly weaker Buu in his most powerful form two days prior.

[Godo]

I believe that Goku, Gohan, and Gotenks are equal. If that were not true then why would absorbing Gotenks mean anything? Gohan was dominated after the absorption.

If we say that Gohan is a 75 and Buu a 50 in their power scale, and Gotenks his equal, Buu absorbing Gotenks would put him at 100. That's logical to me.
And it also would explain why Gohan got his ass kicked so hard.

Secondly if Gohan was so much stronger than Goku than why not absorb Goku so he can fight Gohan whos stronger rather than absorb Gohan and fight Goku who's suposedly a lot weaker.

Because of that even though Buu likes a challenge, he doesn't like death.
If Gohan was still alive, Buu would get killed eventually. So he absorbed him, 'cause of that he is a sadistic bastard after all.

[RoarkVegeta]

Arale.


N'cha!

[Herms]

Does Daizenshuu really states Gohan is the strongest un-fused character at the end of Dragonball?

No, it doesn't ever actually flat-out say that. Whether he is or not is another story, of course. Daizenshuu 2 refers to Gohan's "mystic" form as the "Strongest Warrior", but this is just a title for that form taken from the manga when Gohan asks Elder Kaioshin how to transform into "this strongest warrior".

[Bussani]

As far as everything else goes, Vegetto is another character of his own that appeared in the story and was stronger than the rest making him the strongest character. He's still the strongest "un-fused" character, too, seeing how fusion and potaras are two completely separate power ups despite similar effects. So that means the strongest "un-fused", "un-potara-ed" character in the Buu saga would still be one of the Buus. They might as well just say the strongest character without the help of magic was Goku. And the strongest "un-fused", "unpotar-ed", "un-saiyajin", "un-created", "un-god", "un-alien", "un-specially-trained-by-experts" character was Mr Satan.

This topic's pretty straightforward. I know you're smart enough to understand what it's really asking, without going crazy over semantics.

So many people on this forum remind me of those evil genies that take all of your wishes too literally. You have to word everything perfectly or they get you.

[Amigo Ten]

Here's a quote from an interview with Toriyama in Daizenshuu #2:

Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most?
A: Cool: Goku
I think it's Goku. The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!

Of course, you can argue that he was on crack when he said that, and while Gohan was obviously the stronger one in the Buu saga, it is quite possible Goku could surpass him again by the end of the series. For me, Toriyama's quote is enough to conclude that he did.

That's from Daiz 4, and I'm fairly sure the bit about being the strongest isn't part of the actual quote.

[Herms]

That's from Daiz 4, and I'm fairly sure the bit about being the strongest isn't part of the actual quote.

That's right. Though Toriyama does say in the SEG that ki was what allowed Goku to become the strongest in the universe. Though that's from a part where's he's simply talking about how great ki is. I really doubt he meant that line as any sort of "who's the strongest?" debate-settler.

[smiley]

That's from Daiz 4, and I'm fairly sure the bit about being the strongest isn't part of the actual quote.

Well here is the link to the interview:

http://www.kanzentai.com/daiz04.php?id=toriyama_best

I just copy/paste'd.

I really doubt he meant that line as any sort of "who's the strongest?" debate-settler.

Obviously not, but there is no point in calling someone "the strongest in the universe" when you actually intended him to be the second strongest.

[Amigo Ten]

That's from Daiz 4, and I'm fairly sure the bit about being the strongest isn't part of the actual quote.

Well here is the link to the interview:

http://www.kanzentai.com/daiz04.php?id=toriyama_best

Yes, that's what I checked the first time. The quote is just "I think it's Goku".

[rereboy]

On the buu arc the strongest unfused fighter is Gohan buu. The strongest unfused and unabsorbed fighter is Mystic Gohan.

After the time gap, maybe Goku is the strongest.

[smiley]

Yes, that's what I checked the first time. The quote is just "I think it's Goku".

I see what you mean now. So the next sentence is not a part of Toriyama's response? It sure seemed to be that way.

Was it added by whoever interviewed Toriryama, or what?

[Amigo Ten]

Just a comment added by the interviewer/whoever, by the look of it. There's comments like it after a lot of the answers.

[smiley]

Well then, guess I was wrong.

There's no definitive answer then, because we have no way of knowing how much progress Goku would have made during the time-skip.

[FuniYamcha]

Logically, shouldn't Gohan have been stronger than Goku, post-10 years of training or not? If Goku had the potential to be stronger than Gohan at any point in their lives, then he should have been the one selected for the whole power-unlocking thing. So if Gohan has the greater potential of the two, and his full potential (and then some?) was unlocked, how could Goku train and become stronger than him?

[rereboy]

Logically, shouldn't Gohan have been stronger than Goku, post-10 years of training or not? If Goku had the potential to be stronger than Gohan at any point in their lives, then he should have been the one selected for the whole power-unlocking thing. So if Gohan has the greater potential of the two, and his full potential (and then some?) was unlocked, how could Goku train and become stronger than him?

Well, Gohan`s power might have decreased during the 10 years. He doesn`t seem to be training at all. And I doubt that the Mystic power up holds him on the same level for the rest of his life, if he doesn`t train.

As for potential, all we know is that Gohan has lots of potential. But Goku has much potential also. Just look how far he`s gone just by pushing himself constantly. Out of the two, I honestly don`t know who has the most potential. As for why Goku wasn`t chosen for the Mystic power up, it was because he was dead and so he couldn`t go back to Earth. But Gohan could.

[B]

Perhaps the reason Gohan has such great potential is because he spent most of his life not training?

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Goku managed to get pretty close to maxing out.

[FuniYamcha]

Logically, shouldn't Gohan have been stronger than Goku, post-10 years of training or not? If Goku had the potential to be stronger than Gohan at any point in their lives, then he should have been the one selected for the whole power-unlocking thing. So if Gohan has the greater potential of the two, and his full potential (and then some?) was unlocked, how could Goku train and become stronger than him?

Well, Gohan`s power might have decreased during the 10 years. He doesn`t seem to be training at all. And I doubt that the Mystic power up holds him on the same level for the rest of his life, if he doesn`t train.

As for potential, all we know is that Gohan has lots of potential. But Goku has much potential also. Just look how far he`s gone just by pushing himself constantly. Out of the two, I honestly don`t know who has the most potential. As for why Goku wasn`t chosen for the Mystic power up, it was because he was dead and so he couldn`t go back to Earth. But Gohan could.

Just because you push yourself hard and see results doesn't mean you have ultimate potential, because Vegeta and Piccolo did the same thing throughout the series. Goku had a huge advantage with the whole "we don't have time the way you do" system in other world, and Piccolo wasn't a saiyan so he wasn't allowed to be stronger. As for Goku being dead, the elder kaioshin knew he could bring Goku back to life, so I doubt that was the problem. When you have a villain who can destroy all of reality, I imagine you'd think about all your options clearly and not just rush into something.

Besides, this topic is just about who is the strongest unfused character we see. Doesn't matter if Gohan lost half his power after 10 years; in my eyes, when he was mystic during the Buu Arc, he would still be stronger than Goku at the end. Why? Well, SSJ3 is still a massive energy wasting power up, and Goku we'd have to believe that Goku developed Full Power SSJ3 or something to be on Gohan's level. Which would then bring up the question as to why he didn't just develop that in the first place if it was possible, since time doesn't really exist in the typical sense in the other world. But anyways. Gohan having so much potential had been hammered down our throats for so bloody long, it'd be pretty lame if he wasn't the strongest due to the mystic thing.

Of course, this is ignoring the fact that Goku is a far superior fighter mentally and would probably beat Gohan, but I still think that in terms of raw power, Gohan had the highest ceiling. Well, except for what we saw out of Trunks and Goten during the Buu Arc, it would have seemed like they would be a million times stronger than the others at the same age...

[Dayspring]

I think it's Gohan. He is as of the end of the Boo saga, and I don't see SSJ3 being accessible very long outside of the afterlife, so even if Goku got stronger, unless he can beat Gohan in 5 minutes, Gohan would still be stronger.

[Senzu_Bean]

Does Daizenshuu really states Gohan is the strongest un-fused character at the end of Dragonball?

No, it doesn't ever actually flat-out say that. Whether he is or not is another story, of course. Daizenshuu 2 refers to Gohan's "mystic" form as the "Strongest Warrior", but this is just a title for that form taken from the manga when Gohan asks Elder Kaioshin how to transform into "this strongest warrior".

Thank you. That is all what I need to know.