Pui Pui's appearance

[hleV]

... but still wanted to attack Pui Pui together with everyone.

No, he didn't. That is Yakon, which is arguably n times stronger than Freeza.

He was surprised when Vegeta was going to fight Pui Pui alone.

[Senzu_Bean]

... but still wanted to attack Pui Pui together with everyone.

No, he didn't. That is Yakon, which is arguably n times stronger than Freeza.

He was surprised when Vegeta was going to fight Pui Pui alone.

He doesn't know how strong Vegeta is. Heck, he probably didn't even know who Vegeta was.

[Godo]

He knew that Babidi gathers the strongest beings to his possesion.

In the Universe, a strength of 120,000 is enough to dwarf almost anyone. And I doubt that they brought so many strong fighters when they were to visit Earth of all places.
And to add, Dabra was enough to defeat Kaioshin by himself, so the other fighters were only there to gather energy, just like Spopowitch was.

[Perfect]

I don't find him being an idiot. It's more or less the terms of fear from Buu himself. If you notice during the Tenkaichi Budokai he's mysterious, an enigma if you will. Probably how a kaioshin should be, however once they're inside Babidi's spaceship his entire character is shifted into a scared child.

[Godo]

I don't find him being an idiot. It's more or less the terms of fear from Buu himself. If you notice during the Tenkaichi Budokai he's mysterious, an enigma if you will. Probably how a kaioshin should be, however once they're inside Babidi's spaceship his entire character is shifted into a scared child.

Yet, after sensing Gohan's SSJ2 power, he still wasn't confident that Dabra could be beaten by him (or any other fighter like Pui Pui and Yakon). That makes him an idiot.
An idiot in the sense that he forgets to sense powerlevels and make accurate judgement when he is afraid. And did I forgot to mention that he is supposed to be the highest deity in the Universe?
Compare him to Kami. And then you will agree with me: Kami was fearful of Cell the most, and we are speaking about a creature many, many times stronger than himself, like one million times stronger or so, yet he kept his calm.

[Herms]

Yet, after sensing Gohan's SSJ2 power, he still wasn't confident that Dabra could be beaten by him (or any other fighter like Pui Pui and Yakon). That makes him an idiot.

But in fact Gohan did have a hard time fighting Dabra, so...

And he hadn't seen Vegeta or Goku fight before at all, so why should he have been confident that they could beat Pui Pui or Yakon? And whatever energy any of them lost went to revive Majin Boo. It really did make the most sense to just all fight at once and overwhelm whatever got sent their way.

An idiot in the sense that he forgets to sense powerlevels and make accurate judgement when he is afraid. And did I forgot to mention that he is supposed to be the highest deity in the Universe?
Compare him to Kami. And then you will agree with me: Kami was fearful of Cell the most, and we are speaking about a creature many, many times stronger than himself, like one million times stronger or so, yet he kept his calm.[/quote]

[jackjack]

The reason why he was so concerned for the Saiyans was because he didn't understand why they were so confident and that he didn't know they could power up. He said it himself.

[Godo]

And he hadn't seen Vegeta or Goku fight before at all, so why should he have been confident that they could beat Pui Pui or Yakon? And whatever energy any of them lost went to revive Majin Boo. It really did make the most sense to just all fight at once and overwhelm whatever got sent their way.

Kaioshin: "Each one of them could kill someone like Freeza in one blow!"

Goku: "We can help you!"
Kaioshin: "Like, cool thanks!"

What would have made more sense would be that they didn't fight at all. Yet he brought them along. And he knew that they knew of Freeza, probably that they fought him. Vegeta in base is not stronger than Freeza...thus there shouldn't be any fear for him to fight Pui Pui alone.
An idiot, in other words.

The reason why he was so concerned for the Saiyans was because he didn't understand why they were so confident and that he didn't know they could power up. He said it himself.

Kibito: "Show me the Super Saiya-jin!"
Gohan: "Let me show a level beyond that!"

They knew of the Super Saiya-jin...in the least.

[Fin]

The thing that really bugs me about him is that he so obviously just couldn't be bothered to do the research. He knew he was going to Earth, he knew there were legendary warriors on Earth, and he knew the fate of the universe depended on stopping Bobbidi. But he couldn't take some time out to look into the histories of the Earthling warriors? For Christ's sake, one of them was tutored by the Northern Kaio! It couldn't have been that hard to find a few things out! What the hell does the Kaioshin do all day?

[Dayspring]

Vegeta in base is not stronger than Freeza...thus there shouldn't be any fear for him to fight Pui Pui alone.

Where does this idea stem from? First of all, it's plausible that for Vegeta to be stronger than Freeza. Second of all, Pui Pui was a majin, so if Spopovitch was any indication, whatever Pui Pui was beforehand, it's possible he's now stronger than an android. From there, Kaioshin wants Vegeta to be prudent.

The reason why he was so concerned for the Saiyans was because he didn't understand why they were so confident and that he didn't know they could power up. He said it himself.

Kibito: "Show me the Super Saiya-jin!"
Gohan: "Let me show a level beyond that!"

They knew of the Super Saiya-jin...in the least.

No, they know SSJ2 gives off a shitload of energy - energy that can be absorbed to awaken Boo. They were also shown that it's tough using SSJ2. They still only know that SSJ is probably on par with Freeza, and that without SSJ, they should be as weak as the energy their ki is currently giving off, since no being in the universe comes close to Freeza. This is them being proven wrong, not that they're idiots.

[Herms]

What would have made more sense would be that they didn't fight at all. Yet he brought them along. And he knew that they knew of Freeza, probably that they fought him. Vegeta in base is not stronger than Freeza...thus there shouldn't be any fear for him to fight Pui Pui alone.
An idiot, in other words.

I don't get this line of reasoning at all....regular Vegeta is weaker than Freeza, therefore there's no reason to worry about him fighting Pui Pui? Huh?

[Godo]

What would have made more sense would be that they didn't fight at all. Yet he brought them along. And he knew that they knew of Freeza, probably that they fought him. Vegeta in base is not stronger than Freeza...thus there shouldn't be any fear for him to fight Pui Pui alone.
An idiot, in other words.

I don't get this line of reasoning at all....regular Vegeta is weaker than Freeza, therefore there's no reason to worry about him fighting Pui Pui? Huh?

Where does this idea stem from? First of all, it's plausible that for Vegeta to be stronger than Freeza.

Um, way to not take anything else I wrote into consideration.
Pui Pui is just a grunt with not that much power. He was dwarfed by Vegeta, who in base by this time didn't exceed Freeza's max power, since then the comment "Every single one of them could take out Freeza with a blow" wouldn't have any weight if they were stronger than Freeza in base.
Besides, this doesn't look like the faces Goku and Vegeta would do if they were stronger than Freeza in base:


Everyone but Kaioshin expected Vegeta, without trying, to be able to defeat Pui Pui easily.
Pui Pui was much, much weaker than Freeza.

Second of all, Pui Pui was a majin, so if Spopovitch was any indication, whatever Pui Pui was beforehand, it's possible he's now stronger than an android. From there, Kaioshin wants Vegeta to be prudent.

Yeah, Pui Pui was probably stronger than before, but the power he had is what we see, completely and leauges below Vegeta's. It doesn't matter what his power was previously.
And the only thing Pui Pui had (if he was the same as Spopovitch) was that he could take a lot of beating, putting his probable power even lower than before.
But you haven't even supported any hard evidence supporting your claim that Vegeta and Pui Pui would be stronger than Freeza (which I on the other hand, have).

No, they know SSJ2 gives off a shitload of energy - energy that can be absorbed to awaken Boo. They were also shown that it's tough using SSJ2. They still only know that SSJ is probably on par with Freeza, and that without SSJ, they should be as weak as the energy their ki is currently giving off, since no being in the universe comes close to Freeza. This is them being proven wrong, not that they're idiots.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeh, now you are just twisting things.
It's simple and clear, if a SSJ is on par with Freeza, and Gohan claims: "Let me show you a level beyond the Super Saiya-jin!", then it is stronger than the normal SSJ.
I doubt Kibito thought that he wanted to do that just to show how much energy he could waste by maintaining that state, and that the state itself was made just to give Buu energy, or to show him a completely useless state (which he was supposedly to use against Kibito, since Kibito didn't know that Piccolo was on to them).
"I can't believe how strong he is!" - Kibito after Gohan went SSJ2
"Hmm...he isn't at full power yet! Is there any limit to his power?" - Kibito healing Gohan
Going by the notion that Kibito didn't know about Gohan showing the SSJ2, not willing to fight Kibito, and that they felt the tremendous power, and later not believing at all in that it could be used in combat, yes they are idiots, not just proved wrong.
Complete and utter idiots.

[Dayspring]

@Godo: I see where you get this now. Note the following:

1) This page has been flipped to read left-to-right. This happens often in old scanslations
2) Someone has randomly edited Vegeta's dialogue (note how the speech bubble clean-up is worse only in that single bubble and how the font is different only in that bubble) from "He can read thoughts!" to what you see in that scanslation
3) The "!!" is not in response to the comment about Freeza, it's in response to the fact that in the edited out panel has Kaioshin arguing with what Vegeta was thinking about and not saying.

So Goku's reaction is to the fact that Boo killed 4 people strong enough to take out Freeza in a single blast. Even Trunks barely did that when Freeza wasn't even at 100%. In other words, the Kaioshin are on par with android-era strengths, with Boo at least on par with one of the levels of Cell. That is impressive for Boo, but it doesn't make it impossible for base Saiyans to take out Freeza anymore.

You're also assuming that Spopovitch's growth is unique unto himself. We have no reason to assume this, especially since we see Vegeta willfully taking advantage of the Majin spell. And after what Kaioshin's seen, it makes sense for him to assume Vegeta's weaker than Pui Pui. Neither has a ki matching their actual strength when Kaioshin makes his comment.

[Thanos]

Pui Pui's model was probably created by using Freeza's 3rd form and Lord Slug's foot soldiers for reference:

Gah, no. Toriyama wouldn't use non-canonical movie cronies in legitimate DBZ episodes.

[rereboy]

Gah, no. Toriyama wouldn't use non-canonical movie cronies in legitimate DBZ episodes.

Why are you so sure? He tends to recycle designs and I`m sure many things influence him and his designs.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

Gah, no. Toriyama wouldn't use non-canonical movie cronies in legitimate DBZ episodes.

Why are you so sure? He tends to recycle designs and I`m sure many things influence him and his designs.

Totally, yep. Since I became involved in the series, Akira's drawings make me feel inspired to my work of art.

[Godo]

@Godo: I see where you get this now.

Oh, I am not basing any of my post on the scanlation itself, but on the artwork. I don't have a scanner to scan my manga, that's all. And my manga is read left to right, so I know that the image on the scanlation is flipped.
So what anyone is saying in those panels in the scanlation has nothing to do with the discussion material in my post.
And I still perceive the situation the same, i.e. Goku seeming impressed.

@Godo: I see where you get this now. Note the following:
You're also assuming that Spopovitch's growth is unique unto himself. We have no reason to assume this, especially since we see Vegeta willfully taking advantage of the Majin spell. And after what Kaioshin's seen, it makes sense for him to assume Vegeta's weaker than Pui Pui. Neither has a ki matching their actual strength when Kaioshin makes his comment.

I am absolutely not assuming that Spopovitch's growth is unique to himself.
I am saying that even if Pui Pui got much stronger, the fight went the same way anyways.
By basic ki sensing abilities you should be able to know that.
I mean, Goku and the others didn't relax just because of that they thought that they were so much stronger than anyone in the universe. In fact, they could probably sense Pui Pui's power and Vegeta's base power aswell.
In some mere humans can sense ki that well, you would expect Kaioshin to be able to do much better himself.
That's my point.