Did Kid Goku start out with a power-level of 10?

[Fox666]

Yea I guess the ki explanation, well, explains it. He's just a tough little saiyan bastard, but his actual ki power was only twice that of a normal man. That makes sense.

You may look at it like this:

Regular human
- Body: 10
- Ki: 5
Total: 50

Goku
- Body: 100
- Ki: 10
Total: 1,000

[dprez]

Yea I guess the ki explanation, well, explains it. He's just a tough little saiyan bastard, but his actual ki power was only twice that of a normal man. That makes sense.

You may look at it like this:

Regular human
- Body: 10
- Ki: 5
Total: 50

Goku
- Body: 100
- Ki: 10
Total: 1,000

That certainly does make Goku look like what he actually is; way stronger than the average man, and not just by 5 points.

[CatouttaHell]

If Initial Son Goku is only a 10 then the Farmer should be a 1 at most. Something like this makes a lot more sense IMO:

Initial Son Goku - 10
Bear Bandit - 5
Videl - 2
Bob Sapp - 1.8
Mister Satan - 1.5
Farmer - 1

Power levels that dont appear inseries are never announced by Toriyama, just purely speculation by Toei, FUNi or the watchers.

I've heard of goku being PL10, making him weaker than Mr Satan who I think has a PL of 100.

There's no way Mister Satan has a BP of 100. Toriyama stated he was weaker than Bob Sapp, a real life human.

[Fox666]

Something like this makes a lot more sense IMO:

That kind of logic is completely flawed because you are trying to estabilished the proportion in battle powers which is someting that is far from consistent in the course of the manga history.

[Deep Thought]

The fact that Goku was able to knock out (and cause severe damage to) a gigantic grizzly bear bandit with a single punch leaves me a little perplexed. The discrepancy between the bandit and a regular human should be much more than 2 or 3 power level points, yet these official numbers would insist that this would be the case.

[Bussani]

The fact that Goku was able to knock out (and cause severe damage to) a gigantic grizzly bear bandit with a single punch leaves me a little perplexed. The discrepancy between the bandit and a regular human should be much more than 2 or 3 power level points, yet these official numbers would insist that this would be the case.

Vegeta annihilated Dodoria when their battle powers were 24,000 and 22,000 (if you accept the Daizenshuu numbers, at least) respectively, and was thoroughly beating Zarbon when his was 23,000. Both of those are smaller differences, proportionally speaking, than the difference between a battle power of 7 and 5, or 7 and 10. It's probably best just not to question it too much.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Also, there's more to winning a fight than just power. In that Vegeta vs. Zarbon example, Vegeta could sense the ki of his movements, while Zarbon could only follow Vegeta with his eyes.

[NANLIT]

Or another example is post ROSAT Trunks and Perfect Cell. Trunks as a SSJ Grade 3 was more powerful than Perfect Cell, but with his reduced speed, he couldn't win.

[Herms]

Also, there's more to winning a fight than just power. In that Vegeta vs. Zarbon example, Vegeta could sense the ki of his movements, while Zarbon could only follow Vegeta with his eyes.

There's also the fact that Goku has been training in martial arts for his entire (admittedly short) life, taught by one of the best masters on Earth. Even if he didn't have any advantage in physical strength/durability and ki power over the farmer, I'd still expect Goku to be vastly better in a fight just because he, well, knows how to fight whereas the farmer does not. Same goes to a lesser extent for the pterodactyl, the bear bandit, the Rabbit Gang thugs, etc. Plus, in the first story arc Goku also gets a lot of mileage out of the Nyoibo, which is a pretty handy weapon.

[Bussani]

Also, there's more to winning a fight than just power. In that Vegeta vs. Zarbon example, Vegeta could sense the ki of his movements, while Zarbon could only follow Vegeta with his eyes.

That's a good point. If battle powers were even, the person who can sense ki should obviously have an advantage over the one who can't. I've wondered before how much this would play into fights like Goku vs. Freeza. But still, while the Zarbon fight might be a bit questionable, Vegeta vaporized poor Dodoria with just one attack. Just imagine what Goku could do to that farmer.

[FindKenshi]

I've wondered before how much this would play into fights like Goku vs. Freeza.

Wasn't that part of the fight? Goku surmises that Freeza can't follow his ki, so he hatches the plan to hide under water and shoot two kamehamehas up to distract Freeza, while Goku got in behind him and delivered a double face kick to him, sending him crashing into one island and through another with a mountain to boot.

And that's just the manga alone.

In the Anime Goku absues it even more, like with the smoke shield eye lasers part.

[Bussani]

Wasn't that part of the fight? Goku surmises that Freeza can't follow his ki, so he hatches the plan to hide under water and shoot two kamehamehas up to distract Freeza, while Goku got in behind him and delivered a double face kick to him, sending him crashing into one island and through another with a mountain to boot.

And that's just the manga alone.

In the Anime Goku absues it even more, like with the smoke shield eye lasers part.

Yeah, he did do those things. I meant it could make a constant difference, though, even when just exchanging blows. But Goku and Freeza are never really at even levels, so their fight probably isn't a good example.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Also keep in mind that as a farmer, he may have built up some strength over the years. Maybe the strength of an average human would be something like 3.5.

[Fox666]

But when Trunks was disguising himself to Freeza the Scouter reads 5, so that should be the average strength of an adult.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Wasn't that part of the fight? Goku surmises that Freeza can't follow his ki, so he hatches the plan to hide under water and shoot two kamehamehas up to distract Freeza, while Goku got in behind him and delivered a double face kick to him, sending him crashing into one island and through another with a mountain to boot.

And that's just the manga alone.

In the Anime Goku absues it even more, like with the smoke shield eye lasers part.

Yeah, he did do those things. I meant it could make a constant difference, though, even when just exchanging blows. But Goku and Freeza are never really at even levels, so their fight probably isn't a good example.

Well, after Gokuu knocked Freeza into the mountain, he said that it didn't have any effect on him. Freeza merely brushes himself off and commends Gokuu on his strength.

But still, while the Zarbon fight might be a bit questionable, Vegeta vaporized poor Dodoria with just one attack. Just imagine what Goku could do to that farmer.

Also factor in the fact that Vegeta managed to restrain Dodoria in an arm lock (which is arguably more about skill/trickery than power) and vaporized him when he was flying away unguarded. But yes, Gokuu would destroy the farmer without breaking a sweat.