Kuririn & Tenshinhan's PIS in the Cell arc

[Piccolo Daimao]

Same reason he built #19 (his first successful Android) as an energy absorption model rather than an infinite type. He thought that they were easier to control, and believed that the infinite energy reactor and its influx of power were the reason #17 and #18 didn't listen to his commands. He probably neglected, ignored and/or flat-out didn't know that #17 and #18 were still part-human and hated him for turning them into cyborgs (and presumably causing them amnesia in the process, since they only call each other by their Android numbers, rather than their real names).

He designed #17 and #18 that way, I doubt he didn't know that they were still part human. But it seems like you didn't read my post very well. I was saying why didn't he transform himself into an android with the same design and specs as #16, #17 or #18? They were superior in strength to #19, #16 being the strongest. So it would have been better for Gero to build a body exactly like #16's and put his brain in it. As implied with the numbers he built them all before he made himself an android because he was #20, so he could have compared the other designs and seen which one was better, in this case #16, and turned himself into a similar android. So why didn't he?

FUCK. FUCK. FUCK.

Sorry, I was OCD-editing my post around to make more sense to me and forgot to delete that bit. What I meant to say was that he may not have known that they hated him for turning them into cyborgs, and would've just assumed that they were acting up because of the infinite energy reactor. So it'd be better to make an Android that, despite being weaker, was controllable, and since that worked so brilliantly, he made himself that type too (might've even be simpler and/or faster [to build, as well as the fact that it was #19 who helped him become #20] technology too; if it ain't broke, don't fix it). #16, #17 and #18 were too strong, since #19 alone surpassed Gero's calculations for Gokuu and co.'s strength, and Gero isn't like Cell, who had Saiyan cells within him and was programmed to attain the strongest power in existence.

I find it hard to believe that guys who could level an entire city would have difficulty with a mere door, regardless of its material.

They can level it with Ki blasts. The Z fighters were never THAT unbelievable with their bare fists.

I mean, take a look at Roshi. Can level a mountain or destroy the moon... Yet he has trouble pushing a boulders with a few dozen tons. Its a trend that the series follows closely.

Adding to that the fact that Gero designed those doors...

Yeah, I know, so why didn't they use ki blasts? We didn't see them try, so they clearly didn't. Gero hears one or two bangs on the door, and then Kuririn trying to push it down with his bare hands and Tenshinhan elbowing it. Why the fuck didn't they just blast it down? Why are we all saying that this door is some kind of Super Door that's invulnerable to relative powerhouses like Kuririn and Tenshinhan that, as I said, can burn an entire city down to dust by this point? Heck, if we're to believe Vegeta's claim of planning to destroy Earth with his Galick Gun, they could destroy an entire planet with ease! And yet we're meant to stomach that Gero's super-sturdy door is impenetrable to even them? Tougher than a planet?

What my problem here is, yeah, it's reasonable for them to have trouble with a door designed by Gero if they're trying to break it down with their bare hands. But my problem is that they weren't even shown attempting to use ki to blast it down.

[Toadster]

PIS is quite common in Dragon Ball, so this doesn't bug me. Why not Kienzan Freeza after he's been Solar Flared? Same with Dodoria, or any villain Krillin faced in general?

[Saiga]

I still think Door >>> Humans is quite believable. They probably should have tried ki blasts, but I guess Toriyama didn't give two shits about details like that.

[Hitiro]

PIS is quite common in Dragon Ball, so this doesn't bug me. Why not Kienzan Freeza after he's been Solar Flared? Same with Dodoria, or any villain Krillin faced in general?

You could argue that they are good guys so they probably wouldn't do something so dirty or aim to just defeat the opponent as opposed to killing them. Really the only Z Fighters that have actually killed another person are Goku, Yajirobe, Piccolo, Gohan, Trunks and Vegeta. I can't think of any other character from the Z Fighters who have killed someone, btw, I don't regard the Saibamen as actual people. But if you want to include it then add Krillin to the list, Yamcha didn't kill his and paid the price for it for not checking to make sure.

[Eight-Star Dragon]

Kuririn would've killed Vegeta if not for Goku's interference, so it's not as if he's adverse to killing villains. He doesn't really strike me as any less moral than the others. There's also Tenshinhan, who seemed pretty damned determined to kill Nappa to avenge his lover's death. Besides, a sharp weapon such as the Kienzan that, IINM can cut through pretty much anything (anime filler be damned) is going to do some major damage; it's just that all 3 of the Kienzan's targets (Ape Vegeta, Freeza and Nappa) have either partially or fully dodged it, or in Ape Gohan's case, was aimed just at the tail. Nappa especially stands out as one who probably would have been killed, if Vegeta hadn't ordered him to get the hell out of dodge.

This lack of strategic attacks is just to preserve the drama. It'd be no fun if friggin' Kuririn always defeated the villain. Granted, a well-placed Kienzan probably wouldn't kill Freeza, since he's insanely durable like we see later on with Goku, but it'd be better than nothing.

[caejones]

All I'm taking away from this is that NVDA pronounces PIS as piss, and piss is indeed rather common in dragonball.
I think a Methods of Rationality version of DBZ would be hilarious. (Gohan reads a lot of scholarly stuff, after all.)
But of course, Gohan wasn't around for the scene in question, so

[dbgtFO]

I mean, take a look at Roshi. Can level a mountain or destroy the moon... Yet he has trouble pushing a boulders with a few dozen tons. Its a trend that the series follows closely.

To be fair Roshi was in his buffed up form, when he did those extraordinary feats, whereas he was normal, when he tried pushing the boulder.

Adding to that the fact that Gero designed those doors...

Yes, I think this might be the main reason.

As far as Krillin not using his Ki Slicer on Freeza, when he had him blinded, yeah it's obvious PIS, but in real life you could be so caught up in the heat of the moment, that thinking clear can become difficult.

While faaaaa~r from the same scenario I recall my brother and I being cornered in Zombie mode in CoD: Black Ops. I got so nervous I completely overlooked the fact, that I could just have whipped out my Thundergun and blown them all away instead of getting downed and losing like we did.

[shonenhikada]

They can level it with Ki blasts. The Z fighters were never THAT unbelievable with their bare fists.

I mean, take a look at Roshi. Can level a mountain or destroy the moon... Yet he has trouble pushing a boulders with a few dozen tons. Its a trend that the series follows closely.

Adding to that the fact that Gero designed those doors...

Can you provide the scan showing roshi struggling to push a boulder a few dozen tons ?

[dbgtFO]

I don't have the scan, but I can tell you it's in volume 3 chapter 31.

[shonenhikada]

I don't have the scan, but I can tell you it's in volume 3 chapter 31.

Oh thanks found it. Yoshi does show struggling but didn't Toriyama say that their is an upper limit to what the body can do in terms of physical strength and you can surpass your bodies physical limit using ki. Judging by the scan Yoshi either didn't go all out or it could be another form of inconsistency, as Goku who has less ki than rosh at this timei is able to push it farther.

As for the topic, Its PIS plain and simple. They could of easily blown up the surrounding mountain ad bypass the door all together.

[dbgtFO]

I don't have the scan, but I can tell you it's in volume 3 chapter 31.

Oh thanks found it. Yoshi does show struggling but didn't Toriyama say that their is an upper limit to what the body can do in terms of physical strength and you can surpass your bodies physical limit using ki. Judging by the scan Yoshi either didn't go all out or it could be another form of inconsistency, as Goku who has less ki than rosh at this timei is able to push it farther.

Yes, Toriyama said that. I would say that Roshi did go all out(in his normal form), Goku was just more apt for that kind of showing, like a Boxer vs. a Strongest Man competitioner. Perhaps Roshi could punch harder than Goku in spite of not being able to push the rock as far as him(does that make any sense?).

I myself explained it away with saying Roshi's overall power was much greater than Goku's, but there were some areas, where Goku had Roshi beat as this scene shows.

Basically if the boulder feat depended entirely on arm strength(which it likely didn't) Goku would be greater than Roshi in that department, whereas Roshi had stronger legs, as seen, when they each ran a 100m race. Something like that.

[FNF]

It could be looked at like Piccolo thinking that he wouldn't be able to destroy it with his bare hands either.

@ Thread title *edit: misread it as pLs* I think they are around kkx10-kkx20 Goku(Freeza fight). That means they are strong enough to be of some use against the androids as a group and able to fill the gap between c20 and SSjin Vegeta.