Kuririn & Tenshinhan's PIS in the Cell arc

[Piccolo Daimao]

Do you think that the scene where Kuririn and Tenshinhan are having difficulty trying to break down Dr. Gero's laboratory (remarking that it was tough, but not using ki blasts or anything) and needing Piccolo to take over is a moment of plot-induced stupidity?

[Saiga]

Do you think that the scene where Kuririn and Tenshinhan are having difficulty trying to break down Dr. Gero's laboratory (remarking that it was tough, but not using ki blasts or anything) and needing Piccolo to take over is a moment of plot-induced stupidity?

Hey, it's Gero technology. Door >>> Humans.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Do you think that the scene where Kuririn and Tenshinhan are having difficulty trying to break down Dr. Gero's laboratory (remarking that it was tough, but not using ki blasts or anything) and needing Piccolo to take over is a moment of plot-induced stupidity?

Hey, it's Gero technology. Door >>> Humans.

I find it hard to believe that guys who could level an entire city would have difficulty with a mere door, regardless of its material.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I find it hard to believe that guys who could level an entire city would have difficulty with a mere door, regardless of its material.

Still, they couldn't destroy the Artificial Humans, who were machines. So the door could be made from a similar material.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

No. I honestly believe they couldn't knock the door down with their strength alone.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I find it hard to believe that guys who could level an entire city would have difficulty with a mere door, regardless of its material.

Still, they couldn't destroy the Artificial Humans, who were machines. So the door could be made from a similar material.

It wasn't the material that made the Androids so strong.

No. I honestly believe they couldn't knock the door down with their strength alone.

When they didn't even try destroying it with ki blasts? Kuririn was just pushing it with his hands and Tenshinhan was elbowing it. It's fucking retarded, and I don't know Toriyama didn't realize that.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It wasn't the material that made the Androids so strong.

It definitely wasn't normal material, since Trunks' sword couldn't cut #18.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

They were probably trying to prove their manhood. Remember, Tien both hated and loved the fact that Vegeta and Piccolo were topdogs, and Krillin was probably feeling less masculine after catching up with #20 but being powerless to stop him from going in and activating the Androids. It's possible that they thought they were too good to need to resort to using their Chi for a strongly built door.

Or perhaps they were trying to conserve their energy for a potentially vicious battle.

I think the main reason why Trunks couldn't cut #18 was a combination of how strong their bodies were, along with the fact that #18 was way stronger than him.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It wasn't the material that made the Androids so strong.

It definitely wasn't normal material, since Trunks' sword couldn't cut #18.

#18 raised her arm up to block his strike, so it could've just as easily been her sheer strength. The same person, Trunks, manages to catch King Cold quickly bringing down his sword on him without receiving injury, yet we're not saying its his material that allowed him to do that. Same goes for all the characters that survive ki blasts, bullets (with the exception of, maybe, Gokuu), bombs, grenades, etc.

They were probably trying to prove their manhood. Remember, Tenshinhan both hated and loved the fact that Vegeta and Piccolo were topdogs, and Krillin was probably feeling less masculine after catching up with #20 but being powerless to stop him from going in and activating the Androids. It's possible that they thought they were too good to need to resort to using their Chi for a strongly built door.

Or perhaps they were trying to conserve their energy for a potentially vicious battle.

That seems like a bit of a stretch. "Trying to prove their manhood"? I don't think the super-warriors are a bunch of alpha dogs who'd need or want to prove their manhood to anyone, much less guys they knew they'd never been able to keep up with anyway.

And just how much ki would they need to unload to destroy a door? Piccolo obviously didn't feel as if using ki was beneath him, since he was about to until he was stunned by the relevation that the Androids had already been activated, and then Vegeta blasted the door down with a ki blast.

I think the main reason why Trunks couldn't cut #18 was a combination of how strong their bodies were, along with the fact that #18 was way stronger than him.

See my reply to DBZGTKOSDH.

[Hitiro]

I find it hard to believe that guys who could level an entire city would have difficulty with a mere door, regardless of its material.

Still, they couldn't destroy the Artificial Humans, who were machines. So the door could be made from a similar material.

It wasn't the material that made the Androids so strong.

What about #16? He was pure machine, he must of had some durability as he wouldn't have been able to take on Cell very well if his body just crumbled as he attacked.

It definitely wasn't normal material, since Trunks' sword couldn't cut #18.

I would assume that channelling ki around the blade is what made the sword so awesome, much like how Goku channelled ki around his finger to block the sword.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

#18 raised her arm up to block his strike, so it could've just as easily been her sheer strength.

Let me try this to my brother with a knife.
Seriously now, we don't know for sure the reason the sword broke. But yeah, they were acting dump I believe, they didn't even try a ki blast. Perhaps they thought they could do it with their own strength, and didn't get the chance to use any ki blasts.

[Piccolo Daimao]

What about #16? He was pure machine, he must of had some durability as he wouldn't have been able to take on Cell very well if his body just crumbled as he attacked.

#16 himself said that his calculations showed his power was about equal to Cell.

Chapter: 371 (DBZ 177), P6.4
Context: before No.16 goes to fight first form Cell
No.16: “According to my calculations, my power is about equal to Cell’s.”

It definitely wasn't normal material, since Trunks' sword couldn't cut #18.

I would assume that channelling ki around the blade is what made the sword so awesome, much like how Goku channelled ki around his finger to block the sword.

Exactly. #18's power, which may've come from her infinite energy reactor or something else (maybe some trivial shit via Toriyama-science), was greater than Trunks' power, which came from his ki. We're not saying that Gokuu's skin was super-strong or anything. Material, strength, muscles and ki (and all the stuff that goes into it, like genki and the other things Toriyama mentioned in a guidebook or something) are different concepts that all make up how powerful and/or durable someone can be.

#18 raised her arm up to block his strike, so it could've just as easily been her sheer strength.

Let me try this to my brother with a knife.

Your brother isn't superhuman, a ki-user/channeller, or an Android, so have fun.

[Hitiro]

What about #16? He was pure machine, he must of had some durability as he wouldn't have been able to take on Cell very well if his body just crumbled as he attacked.

#16 himself said that his calculations showed his power was about equal to Cell.

Chapter: 371 (DBZ 177), P6.4
Context: before No.16 goes to fight first form Cell
No.16: “According to my calculations, my power is about equal to Cell’s.”

My point was #16 didn't use such a conventional thing as Ki in combat, he was a pure android who used his technology and materials to do combat. In comparison to #18 and #17 who got their strength increased through implants and most likely had something along the lines of ki to augment their bodies #16 had no such thing. So going by #16's durability Gero could have made doors of equal magnitude in defence which would mean characters like Kuririn and Tenshinhan would prove pretty useless.

[Piccolo Daimao]

My point was #16 didn't use such a conventional thing as Ki in combat, he was a pure android who used his technology and materials to do combat. In comparison to #18 and #17 who got their strength increased through implants and most likely had something along the lines of ki to augment their bodies #16 had no such thing. So going by #16's durability Gero could have made doors of equal magnitude in defence which would mean characters like Kuririn and Tenshinhan would prove pretty useless.

I disagree, but understand. Still don't see why a door would have such durability, or why Gero would need to make one with such strong material if it's in bum-fuck nowhere and no-one actually knows where it is? Blooma only knew the general area, not the exact location.

[Makaioshin]

My point was #16 didn't use such a conventional thing as Ki in combat, he was a pure android who used his technology and materials to do combat. In comparison to #18 and #17 who got their strength increased through implants and most likely had something along the lines of ki to augment their bodies #16 had no such thing. So going by #16's durability Gero could have made doors of equal magnitude in defence which would mean characters like Kuririn and Tenshinhan would prove pretty useless.

I disagree, but understand. Still don't see why a door would have such durability, or why Gero would need to make one with such strong material if it's in bum-fuck nowhere and no-one actually knows where it is? Blooma only knew the general area, not the exact location.

He is a crazy scientist who has been plotting his revenge against a 14 year old boy for years. I'm sure he thought of everything.

[hleV]

Dr. Gero's lab walls are supplied with infinite energy reactor. How's that?

[Hitiro]

What you should be asking is why Gero didn't give himself an infinite energy reactor and make himself better than the other androids. He built #16 way before #17 and #18 but when he transferred his brain over into an android body he ended up weaker than a machine he built before. Also #17 and #18 were built before he transferred his brain over otherwise he wouldn't be #20 he would be #17 and the others would be higher numbers. So why couldn't he make himself like #17 or #18 and just have implants enhance his power to their level?

[Piccolo Daimao]

My point was #16 didn't use such a conventional thing as Ki in combat, he was a pure android who used his technology and materials to do combat. In comparison to #18 and #17 who got their strength increased through implants and most likely had something along the lines of ki to augment their bodies #16 had no such thing. So going by #16's durability Gero could have made doors of equal magnitude in defence which would mean characters like Kuririn and Tenshinhan would prove pretty useless.

I disagree, but understand. Still don't see why a door would have such durability, or why Gero would need to make one with such strong material if it's in bum-fuck nowhere and no-one actually knows where it is? Blooma only knew the general area, not the exact location.

He is a crazy scientist who has been plotting his revenge against a 14 year old boy for years. I'm sure he thought of everything.

Well, 13-year-old boy, but you've got a point.

Dr. Gero's lab walls are supplied with infinite energy reactor. How's that?

How would that work? You can't put a reactor in a wall.

What you should be asking is why Gero didn't give himself an infinite energy reactor and make himself better than the other androids. He built #16 way before #17 and #18 but when he transferred his brain over into an android body he ended up weaker than a machine he built before. Also #17 and #18 were built before he transferred his brain over otherwise he wouldn't be #20 he would be #17 and the others would be higher numbers. So why couldn't he make himself like #17 or #18 and just have implants enhance his power to their level?

Same reason he built #19 (his first successful Android) as an energy absorption model rather than an infinite type. He thought that they were easier to control, and believed that the infinite energy reactor and its influx of power were the reason #17 and #18 didn't listen to his commands. He probably neglected, ignored and/or flat-out didn't know that #17 and #18 hated him for turning them into cyborgs (and presumably causing them amnesia in the process, since they only call each other by their Android numbers, rather than their real names).

[Hitiro]

Same reason he built #19 (his first successful Android) as an energy absorption model rather than an infinite type. He thought that they were easier to control, and believed that the infinite energy reactor and its influx of power were the reason #17 and #18 didn't listen to his commands. He probably neglected, ignored and/or flat-out didn't know that #17 and #18 were still part-human and hated him for turning them into cyborgs (and presumably causing them amnesia in the process, since they only call each other by their Android numbers, rather than their real names).

He designed #17 and #18 that way, I doubt he didn't know that they were still part human. But it seems like you didn't read my post very well. I was saying why didn't he transform himself into an android with the same design and specs as #16, #17 or #18? They were superior in strength to #19, #16 being the strongest. So it would have been better for Gero to build a body exactly like #16's and put his brain in it. As implied with the numbers he built them all before he made himself an android because he was #20, so he could have compared the other designs and seen which one was better, in this case #16, and turned himself into a similar android. So why didn't he?

[rereboy]

Do you think that the scene where Kuririn and Tenshinhan are having difficulty trying to break down Dr. Gero's laboratory (remarking that it was tough, but not using ki blasts or anything) and needing Piccolo to take over is a moment of plot-induced stupidity?

Hey, it's Gero technology. Door >>> Humans.

I find it hard to believe that guys who could level an entire city would have difficulty with a mere door, regardless of its material.

They can level it with Ki blasts. The Z fighters were never THAT unbelievable with their bare fists.

I mean, take a look at Roshi. Can level a mountain or destroy the moon... Yet he has trouble pushing a boulders with a few dozen tons. Its a trend that the series follows closely.

Adding to that the fact that Gero designed those doors...