Dragon Ball Online Retconning GT's Existence

[JulieYBM]

Toei wouldn't have the rights to do anything based on Online in the first place, would they?

They'd probably have to get 'em from Shueisha and Bird Studio.

[bleed0range]

It's not an official sequel, it's a video game. It's designed to give a reason for there being multiple races, which is what you have in mmorpgs. It may contain some things that would possibly be in the manga if it continued (like goku and vegeta fighting out in space) but not things that are an obvious excuse for the game (buu splitting up into a female version of himself to make a majin race). Take it for what it is, the best idea of a "sequel" we have but not an actual sequel to the manga, even if it is written by Toriyama.

For instance, when I played Star Wars galaxies, Han solo saved me and delivered me to Tatooine and there's all these little stories in the game that involve the main characters but that doesn't mean that it's officially canon to the series. They do that because it's necessary for a video game like that.

At the same time, GT isn't really a sequel either. It's not even written by Toriyama even though it was done as a 64 episode anime. It's about as canon as any of the 13 movies are.

A sequel to the manga/anime would literally be a sequel to the anime/manga written by Toriyama for purposes of telling a story, not for a video game.

[Herms]

Wasn't the game a result of the compan only getting lisence to use the manga anyway?

Yeah, there's an interview with the game developers where they say they only have the license for the manga, so they couldn't throw in anime-only stuff even if they wanted to. I recall it being ambiguous as to whether they actually wanted to or not, but I can't find the link to that interview now...

[TheDevilsCorpse]

It's not an official sequel, it's a video game. It's designed to give a reason for there being multiple races, which is what you have in mmorpgs. It may contain some things that would possibly be in the manga if it continued (like goku and vegeta fighting out in space) but not things that are an obvious excuse for the game (buu splitting up into a female version of himself to make a majin race). Take it for what it is, the best idea of a "sequel" we have but not an actual sequel to the manga, even if it is written by Toriyama.

Whether it's a video game and has plot points written specifically to explain certain features or mechanics is irrelevant. It's an officially licensed product that continues the story of the manga, and plenty of franchises use transmedia storytelling these days. That doesn't mean it's the one and only, truly indisputable canon continuation or anything, but regardless of if you accept it or not, the fact remains that it is an official sequel.

[Bussani]

Yeah, this is pretty simple when you get down to it. Both Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Online are officially made projects that continue the original story in their own ways. They're not compatible with one another, but that doesn't mean one "retcons" the other. They're alternatives--there's no need to retcon one for the other to exist.

[bleed0range]

Yeah, this is pretty simple when you get down to it. Both Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Online are officially made projects that continue the original story in their own ways. They're not compatible with one another, but that doesn't mean one "retcons" the other. They're alternatives--there's no need to retcon one for the other to exist.

I am not saying they don't continue the story in their own ways, but I don't think either really officially continues the story. The story officially ended with Buu for me (with Yo Son Goku & the new movie being added to that), the rest is just possibilities of what could have happened. DBO IS a little bit closer in that it is written by toriyama, but I can't get behind something as dumb as creating a Majin race when the sensible side of me knows that's just because of a video game.

[Bussani]

When TheDevilsCorpse and I said "official sequel," we were talking about officially licensed continuations, not an official canon. Cause, you know, there isn't an official or agreed upon canon.

but I can't get behind something as dumb as creating a Majin race when the sensible side of me knows that's just because of a video game.

Wasn't a lot of the manga influenced by necessity? Super Saiyan has light hair because coloring in the black hair all the time was time consuming. Perfect Cell looks the way he did because an editor didn't like his previous forms, and #17 and #18 only exist at all because an editor didn't think an old man and some fat guy should be the next big villains.

[B]

It's less a matter of "retconning" and more a matter of ignoring. You make it sound as if DBO is aggressively trying to erase GT, when it's really only passively doing that.

This seems like a non-point unless we are actually discussing plot discrepencies. Without them, what is this conversation about? Which one we like more?

[Gokuden]

I'm pretty sure Akira Toriyama can come out and say that DB:O is canon for timeline 1, or 3, or 4 etc, and not the main timeline in 2.
I also like to think that DragonBall GT is part of a timeline that doesn't follow the main one, like 1,3,4, or 5, etc.
One where Future Trunks gets killed by Cell upon returning home after finishing off his respective versions of androids 17 and 18, but nobody in the past knows about it. If this were the way that GT came to be, I would so be down for accepting it as a legitimate sequel to world 3.

Someone pull-out that Trunks chart.

[Hellspawn28]

I think the people who only like GT are people are blinded by nostalgia. DB Online retconning GT is a good thing since that's what people wanted. I remember people back in the early 2000's wanted GT to be remade or remove from the show's timeline. I don't think things are much different now.

That's the weird statement to make

I never seen many people like GT other then them saying "It's their first DB series". It's generally speaking its a bad show. I like some things about GT, but I can admit that it's bad even outside of nostalgia. Seeing that GT was a failure then it's a good thing to ignore it. The Highlander sequels ignore Highlander 2 and the Nolan Batman movies ignore Batman & Robin. I don't see why Dragon Ball Online can't do the same?

[Bussani]

I'm pretty sure Akira Toriyama can come out and say that DB:O is canon for timeline 1, or 3, or 4 etc, and not the main timeline in 2.

Of course he can. Like us, he can come out and decide whatever he wants. That's how canon works--it's just that his canon would inevitably be held in higher regard than anything someone else comes up with.

Still, it doesn't matter whether something is canon or part of an existing timeline. Something can be a continuation of something else without being either, oddly.

[Shineman]

I think the people who only like GT are people are blinded by nostalgia. DB Online retconning GT is a good thing since that's what people wanted. I remember people back in the early 2000's wanted GT to be remade or remove from the show's timeline. I don't think things are much different now.

That's the weird statement to make

I never seen many people like GT other then them saying "It's their first DB series". It's generally speaking its a bad show. I like some things about GT, but I can admit that it's bad even outside of nostalgia. Seeing that GT was a failure then it's a good thing to ignore it. The Highlander sequels ignore Highlander 2 and the Nolan Batman movies ignore Batman & Robin. I don't see why Dragon Ball Online can't do the same?

Just because you never seen *insert number people here* doesn't make the assumption that people only like GT out of nostalgia. That's an appeal to popularity I believe, and GT wasn't a failure. Although, it didn't make the demand ratings Toei wanted, they did sold very useful such as having their GT Box preorders being doubled than usual, large request for GT characters in Games, and a interesting expansion and exposure from Dragon Ball Heroes, along with it's Victory manga, and let's not forget the re-released of GT Perfect Files.

The thing with Dragon Ball Online is basically like Batman Animated Cartoons that show over the years. They're multiple cartoons based on Batman, but neither of them have any effect on the comic or the cartoon themselves. You can say that the Cartoons are their own universe, but it did not retcon the previous cartoon. DBO doesn't retcon nor replace Dragon Ball GT, it just expands the franchise, but has no influence on the comic other than expanding the said franchise, the same way Dragon Ball Heroes does.

[InfernalVegito]

I think it's also important to point out why people criticize GT so much. And in my view it's mostly because of its story and plot.
The loud demand for GT characters in video games I think arises from the fact that they are exotic in their nature, i.e. not having appeared in the major console video games of the franchise not sfficient times and complete enough in comparison to Z characters, which are covered always again and again from Radditz to Boo. This can get stale, therefore fans want GT characters.
Also to my understanding there are less people who criticize GT for its design, art, characters than just for its story and plot. Because the latter points should not be as important as the former ones when considering which characters to put into games, except if the games are heavily story oriented in my opinion.

[Cold Skin]

I love the way that first post was structured.
Great way to summurize it all!

[Hellspawn28]

Just because what happen back in the day doesn't really apply to the present (I think that's a fallacy. can't remember the name of it though). Today in age, some people use Canon that goes within their emotions, which is define solely based on quality.

I feel like the DB online community has not changed that much over in the past decade. No matter how much you enjoy the show, the show is always viewed as a failure. The show had poor ratings back in 1997 and there is hardly GT merchandise sold in Japan at all from what I've seen. So having DB Online pretending GT never happen is a good thing.

[MCDaveG]

Penguin Truth's Guide To Dragon Ball Canon:

Canon: Akira Toriyama's original Dragon Ball manga (all 42 volumes)

Non-canon: Everything else

Now, you too can be a master of DB canon arguments! Impress your friends! Lay waste to your enemies! End pointless arguments!

And the cost? Just five easy payments of shutting the hell up about this crap!

Hell yeah!!!

I have the same approach

[Rory]

penguintruth and Bussani have pretty much said what needs to be said here. The manga is canon, and GT and Online are continuations of that. 'Canon' is exclusive to each individual, as different people have varying perspectives, and accept different events into their own personal canon. But if you really wanna get down to it, if there's one 'objective canon' (because of the nature of canon, there isn't, but let's say there is), it's the manga, the original tankobon, the source material. Everything outside of it, from the anime, to the movies, to GT, they're all extensions of that canon, sprouting off into their own canon. GT and Online can both exist, as others have said, nothing is being retconned, fans just choose to accept one over the other.
Because GT is shit.

[Nex Carnifex]

Penguin Truth's Guide To Dragon Ball Canon:

Canon: Akira Toriyama's original Dragon Ball manga (all 42 volumes)

Non-canon: Everything else

Now, you too can be a master of DB canon arguments! Impress your friends! Lay waste to your enemies! End pointless arguments!

And the cost? Just five easy payments of shutting the hell up about this crap!

Agreed

[Hellspawn28]

GT could be canon to the anime series, but I don't think it can exist in the manga. The Super 17 saga would be impossible to happen given that no one in Hell can have their own bodies, allowing Gero and Myu unable to break out. Bebi has a Tsufurujin origin and they were never mention or talked about at all in the manga. I know Akira Toriyama created the idea for them, but that does not mean they exist in the manga.

I also never view DB Online as a true sequel to the manga. I think it's just alternate sequel to the manga and not a true sequel since it was never created by AT. Just like how Dracula the Un-dead is to the orginal Dracula novel since it's not viewed as a real sequel because it was never written by Bram Stoker.

[TheMightyOzaru]

DB online doesnt necessarily retcon GT. DBZ is proven to have multiple universes thanks to Trunks. In fact, can't believe I never thought about this before, all the Dragon Ball content could be canon if we incorporate a multiverse theory.