Was Nappa stronger than post-Kaiou trained Gokuu?

[Victorious]

Nappa's full battle power isnt 4,000.

A 2x gap has never been shown to be even close to a rival range.

A 2x gap is Goku vs Recoome against Vegeta vs Recoome.

Goku ~60,000 >>> Recoome >> 30,000 = Vegeta

[hleV]

And the Daizenahuu was written by ?

Shueisha. Though Akira Toriyama somewhat approved the info inside the guidebooks (likely only the manga-specific stuff).

It should be noted that although Akira Toriyama is listed as the author of this databook, he actually had very little involvement with the production of its content, if any at all. Toriyama makes it quite clear in most of his daizenshuu introductions that “they” (Shueisha) are responsible for putting these together, and he is often graciously humble in thanking them for all their hard work in sorting through his exhaustive series.

[Kaboom]

When did Nappa "rival" Goku? From what I understand, "rivaling" implies that a battle is not heavily in favor of one participant or another. Flipping through my copy of the manga, I see Nappa getting absolutely spanked by Goku left and right, and still not landing a single blow on him after calming down and "doing better," even having his so-called ultimate attack countered. That doesn't strike me as "rivaling."

Is there some alternate edition of the manga where Nappa actually "rivals" Goku? Because if not, then I guess there might be some wildly different ideas of just what does or doesn't constitute "rivaling," especially in the eyes of the experts at Shueisha compared to the average numbers-chucking fan. So we should probably not be so quick to assume that the 4000 number for Nappa is so ludicrous that we make bold and decisive statements about what things are or aren't.

[Victorious]

Goku said it would take "forever" to beat Nappa that way, and his ultimate attack was only countered by Goku, not overpowered.

It took Goku 1 blow to beat Recoome with a much less than 2x gap

[Kaboom]

That he did. Apparently he couldn't do the same with Nappa even at a bigger gap. It's almost like power level gaps aren't consistent, or something!

[Victorious]

All statements about people from Earth being unique aside, Nappa and Vegeta both show instances of them "powering up" multiple times. Whether or not this is truly powering up, I believe a few things are obvious. 1) This is in some way augmenting their ki, 2) the way in which it is augmenting their ki is different than how Earthlings do it.

Of significance is when Nappa does it right before he fights nearly on-par with Goku (using some degree of effort, very likely less than full, but only half?) when he was getting whooped up on before.

Then who said that Nappa's battle power is 4000 ?

---------In which episode did that happent ?

Yeah Vegeta and Nappa both power up several times, but anyway I think that the Z senshi can just hide their full battle powers from scouters, while Nappa and Vegeta although they can fight at lower levels, cannot hide their full battle powers from scouters.

Seems to be the best way to interpret the quotes and what happens.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

That he did. Apparently he couldn't do the same with Nappa even at a bigger gap. It's almost like power level gaps aren't consistent, or something!

Okay; let me ask you: If Nappa powered up once against Pikkoro and the rest, then again against Gokuu, he'd have to be lower than 4,000 against Ma'o who was 3,500 since you're arguing 4,000 was his maximum.

[GoKu.SaMa]

That he did. Apparently he couldn't do the same with Nappa even at a bigger gap. It's almost like power level gaps aren't consistent, or something!

Okay; let me ask you: If Nappa powered up once against Pikkoro and the rest, then again against Gokuu, he'd have to be lower than 4,000 against Ma'o who was 3,500 since you're arguing 4,000 was his maximum.

Yes 4,000 is his maximum , that was written in the Daizenshuu .

[Kaboom]

Okay; let me ask you: If Nappa powered up once against Pikkoro and the rest, then again against Gokuu, he'd have to be lower than 4,000 against Ma'o who was 3,500 since you're arguing 4,000 was his maximum.

I would say that Nappa was simply flaring up his ki for battle, not actually altering it. He would read at 4000 both before and after.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

How would you explain both Vegeta and Nappa seeming to believe they could contain Gokuu?

[TheMightyOzaru]

All statements about people from Earth being unique aside, Nappa and Vegeta both show instances of them "powering up" multiple times. Whether or not this is truly powering up, I believe a few things are obvious. 1) This is in some way augmenting their ki, 2) the way in which it is augmenting their ki is different than how Earthlings do it.

Of significance is when Nappa does it right before he fights nearly on-par with Goku (using some degree of effort, very likely less than full, but only half?) when he was getting whooped up on before.

Then who said that Nappa's battle power is 4000 ?

---------

In which episode did that happent ?

It's in Daizenshuu 7.

And the Daizenahuu was written by ?

Toriyama's staff.

[Godo]

If Nappa rivaled Goku in power, especially since he did so poorly, then the Earthlings rivaled Nappa.
You can't just choose one of both.
Combined, the Earthings did better against Nappa, than Nappa did against Goku. If several Nappas fought Goku,then maybe they could land a hit, like the Earthlings did against Nappa.
So I believe that the numbers in the Daizenshuu are accurate enough.

[Victorious]

lol, Did Goku even damage calmed down/full power Nappa?

I'm pretty sure Nappa basically killed all the Z senshi.

Not to mention I don't think Nappa would state it's gonna take forever to beat any of them.

[Fox666]

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[Godo]

lol, Did Goku even damage calmed down/full power Nappa?

I'm pretty sure Nappa basically killed all the Z senshi.

Not to mention I don't think Nappa would state it's gonna take forever to beat any of them.

Well, Kuririn, Gohan and Piccolo got in at least one hit each. Nappa didn't get in one against Goku.
Just as Nappa was playing with the Earthlings, Goku was playing with Nappa.
Also, Nappas head starts to bleed after he is hit into a rock.
And yes, Goku even says that Nappa is tough, when he just keeps going. But he does say the same against Vegeta after a KKx4, which overpowered Vegeta greatly. Saiya-jins are just generally a tough bunch.

[Victorious]

lol, Did Goku even damage calmed down/full power Nappa?

I'm pretty sure Nappa basically killed all the Z senshi.

Not to mention I don't think Nappa would state it's gonna take forever to beat any of them.

Well, Kuririn, Gohan and Piccolo got in at least one hit each. Nappa didn't get in one against Goku.
Just as Nappa was playing with the Earthlings, Goku was playing with Nappa.
Also, Nappas head starts to bleed after he is hit into a rock.
And yes, Goku even says that Nappa is tough, when he just keeps going. But he does say the same against Vegeta after a KKx4, which overpowered Vegeta greatly. Saiya-jins are just generally a tough bunch.

Goku did not get one hit in against Nappa post calmed down/power up either.

If Goku was playing with Nappa why is it gonna take forever to beat him?

Yeah, he did with the Kamehame-ha.

No, the KHH didnt even hit Nappa, just canceled out his blast.



I have a hard time believing Vegeta at 24,000 would say it could take forever to defeat 18,000 Cui, that's a 1.33x gap. Or Goku at 60,000 saying it would take forever to beat Recoome who pummeled a 30,000 power. Considering he one shotted Recoome.

[Kaboom]

Nobody will deny Nappa put up a better fight in "round 2." But there's still nothing at all to discredit his power level of 4000 beyond fans' preconceptions about what is or isn't possible at some particular gap or another.

[Victorious]

Nobody will deny Nappa put up a better fight in "round 2." But there's still nothing at all to discredit his power level of 4000 beyond fans' preconceptions about what is or isn't possible at some particular gap or another.

There's nothing to discredit his power level being 17,500 beyond fans' preconceptions about what is or isn't possible at some particular gap or another.


Yeah I can do that too Kaboom.

I would have said 1,000,000 but then I remember it was stated his power is lower than Vegeta's

[Fox666]

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[Victorious]

Nappa didnt seem to be scared, just shocked. @ 5,000. When Goku walked toward him he was trash talking IIRC.