Was Nappa stronger than post-Kaiou trained Gokuu?

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

I don't really understand why Vegeta thought Nappa could defeat him, and even Nappa himself thought he could; I think it's possible Nappa was stronger than somewhere over 8,000, but Gokuu got the better of him on multiple occasions and I imagine he was probably more quicker than Nappa, too. I imagine he probably has more technique and insight with his ki mastery than Nappa, too, and it all was able to make up for the power difference Nappa had over him.

What do you all think?

[Kaboom]

I figure Vegeta's just patronizing Nappa, just like how Goku was complimenting and encouraging him the whole time they "fought." Vegeta's line in question doesn't match up at all with what we saw, which was Goku batting Nappa around like a cat with a dead mouse, which likewise matches up with the official "about double" difference in power level between them.

I'd say the ONLY small, slim hope of Nappa beating Goku, if one existed at all, would be for Nappa to focus on defense and somehow just outlast Goku.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

So does that mean you agree with me or not?

I agree with you, of course; but my question was if you think Nappa was actually stronger overall, ki-wise/ battle power and such.

[Kaboom]

So does that mean you agree with me or not?
I agree with you, of course; but my question was if you think Nappa was actually stronger overall, ki-wise/ battle power and such.

Oh, okay. No, not even close! I have no problem with the official power level of ~4000 for Nappa compared to Goku's "over 8000." He has next to zero chance of winning against Goku.

[Tyro]

I think Nappa had to be close enough to Goku that he could actually keep up towards the end when he was calm, but weak enough that his best attack was negated by an on-the-fly Kamehameha at close range. I don't buy that he was only at half of Goku's power.

[GoKu.SaMa]

I don't under stand how could Nappa possibly stand a chance against Goku ?

Goku's battle power is 8000 (with out using the Kaio -Ken) and Nappa's full power is 4000 .

In other words Goku can defeat him easily without even using the kaiou-ken.

[rereboy]

Power level isn't all that matters. Things like toughness, techniques, missed or grasped opportunities, luck, focus, stamina, reflexes, strategy... All those things matter. Yes, power is the most important factor but all those other things also mattered. Nappa was weaker than Goku but not so weak that he couldn't give him a fight, so that means that there was a chance that he could win somehow. His pride wouldn't allow him to just give up.

[GoKu.SaMa]

Power level isn't all that matters. Things like toughness, techniques, missed or grasped opportunities, luck, focus, stamina, reflexes, strategy... All those things matter. Yes, power is the most important factor but all those other things also mattered. Nappa was weaker than Goku but not so weak that he couldn't give him a fight, so that means that there was a chance that he could win somehow. His pride wouldn't allow him to just give up.

The most important thing is the battle power .

The battle power include toughness , Goku is the best when it comes to techniques ,Goku have better reflexes , Goku is smarter so he can make better strategies.

I think Goku (without using the kaiou-ken) is capable of finishing him in less than 5 minutes .

[Nineteen]

I have no problem at all with the official power level of 4,000 for Nappa. Nappa did no better against Goku than the members of the Ginyu Force did later on against him, when their power level disparities were about the same. And if Nappa were much stronger than 4,000, the Z Fighters should have done much worse yet against him (think Gohan one-shotting the Cell Jrs.).

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

My problems are: both, Vegeta was shocked at the battle power of 5,000, yet, continued to let Nappa attempt to dispatch Gokuu, even when it rose to over 8,000, he still acted like Nappa could handle him, and even Nappa himself thought he could handle him. Yeah, Nappa was in blind rage, but not for the entire fight; he actually seemed like he thought he had a good chance against Son Gokuu but he just couldn't take the advantage over Gokuu's speed and technique.

I think it makes sense his battle power can go over 8,000, but he probably has to put his mind to it. And, you know, the 'official' battle power doesn't have to necessarily mean his maximum power when he fought Gokuu.

[Kaboom]

The problem is that Nappa doesn't actually have the ability to control or change his battle power at will. That's a rare ability which not even Vegeta had until later on Namek. They actually spent the whole battle on Earth emphasizing how surprising it was that the Earthlings could do it.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Maybe it is a problem, but it still doesn't really go against what I said about them seeming to act like Nappa could contain Gokuu.

Maybe both Vegeta and Nappa knew he could go over 8,000 at times as well, but like you said, it was difficult because he couldn't figure out how to always achieve it; but I think in this battle, he happened to do it with Vegeta's patronizing and then when he calmed down.

[GoKu.SaMa]

My problems are: both, Vegeta was shocked at the battle power of 5,000, yet, continued to let Nappa attempt to dispatch Gokuu, even when it rose to over 8,000, he still acted like Nappa could handle him, and even Nappa himself through he could handle him. Yeah, Nappa was in blind rage, but not for the entire fight; he actually seemed like he thought he had a good change against Son Gokuu but he just couldn't take the advantage over Gokuu's speed and technique.

I think it makes sense his battle power can go over 8,000, but he probably has to put his mind to it. And, you know, the 'official' battle power doesn't have to necessarily mean his maximum power when he fought Gokuu.

The writer said Nappa's full battle power is 4000 , You can't assume that he is wrong and assume that Nappa can increase his battle power to 8000 .

If Nappa was really that strong then he might kill all of the Z fighters with no scratches (propabbly not even one) .

And i think vegeta allowed Nappa to fight Goku because he wanted to test Goku's power .

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

The writer said Nappa's full battle power is 4000 , You can't assume that he is wrong and assume that Nappa can increase his battle power to 8000 .

No he didn't.

If Nappa was really that strong then he might kill all of the Z fighters with no scratches (propabbly not even one) .

He basically did, but even Freeza who was thousands of times stronger than Kuririn, Pikkoro and Gohan got surprised and scratched by their unsuspecting attacks at 50% power.

[Kaboom]

Here's the way I like to simplify everything: Piccolo, Gohan, and the humans all at least got a few good shots on Nappa and did some moderate damage. But Nappa never laid a finger on Goku. Even his "ultimate attack" did him absolutely no good.

I'm not sure why I'd believe that Nappa's a lot closer in power to Goku than the humans are to him. All things considered, I think all the official power levels work well, with Nappa being stronger but closer to the other Earthlings in power, but vastly outmatched by Goku.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

I can understand why you'd want to see it that way; to be honest, I could go with it too, it could explain how Gokuu's on-the-spot Kame blast would be able to deflect Nappa's mouth blast, but I'm bored and a little curious. I think the fact that Nappa powers up against the Zetto Senshi, and then once (or was it twice?) against Gokuu is a good indication that 4,000 isn't his max, or was at least holding back against Pikkoro and friends.

[GoKu.SaMa]

The writer said Nappa's full battle power is 4000 , You can't assume that he is wrong and assume that Nappa can increase his battle power to 8000 .

No he didn't.

If Nappa was really that strong then he might kill all of the Z fighters with no scratches (propabbly not even one) .

He basically did, but even Freeza who was thousands of times stronger than Kuririn, Pikkoro and Gohan got surprised and scratched by their unsuspecting attacks at 50% power.

Then who said that Nappa's battle power is 4000 ?

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In which episode did that happent ?

[Tyro]

All statements about people from Earth being unique aside, Nappa and Vegeta both show instances of them "powering up" multiple times. Whether or not this is truly powering up, I believe a few things are obvious. 1) This is in some way augmenting their ki, 2) the way in which it is augmenting their ki is different than how Earthlings do it.

Of significance is when Nappa does it right before he fights nearly on-par with Goku (using some degree of effort, very likely less than full, but only half?) when he was getting whooped up on before.

Then who said that Nappa's battle power is 4000 ?

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In which episode did that happent ?

It's in Daizenshuu 7.

[hleV]

Neither Nappa nor Vegeta could control their battle power at the time, that's why they were so surprised at this ability humans possessed.

[GoKu.SaMa]

All statements about people from Earth being unique aside, Nappa and Vegeta both show instances of them "powering up" multiple times. Whether or not this is truly powering up, I believe a few things are obvious. 1) This is in some way augmenting their ki, 2) the way in which it is augmenting their ki is different than how Earthlings do it.

Of significance is when Nappa does it right before he fights nearly on-par with Goku (using some degree of effort, very likely less than full, but only half?) when he was getting whooped up on before.

Then who said that Nappa's battle power is 4000 ?

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In which episode did that happent ?

It's in Daizenshuu 7.

And the Daizenahuu was written by ?