Ssj3 Vegeta

[hleV]

I believe he did achieve it. For Goku it was easier thanks to the afterlife conditions, but after Boo's defeat Vegeta was pretty much equal to Goku in base, and he knew of SS3, so after training for a while he should've achieved it himself.

[TheMightyOzaru]

That's my thought process as well.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I believe that he still couldn't become a Super Saiyan 3 by the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai.
Goku & Vegeta were equals by the end of Boo arc (without counting SS3 for Goku). Vegeta said to Goku during their second fight that even though he (Vegeta) probably did harder training than Goku, the gap since the Cell Games didn't change because Goku is a bigger fighting genius than him. So, since in those 10 years Goku either did normal training on Earth or training at Kaio's (by using Shunkan Ido to go to Heaven), and Vegeta did (even harder) training on the Gravity Room, I guess the gap stayed the same again. But Vegeta says that he still wants to surpass Goku in the end, so Goku is still the strongest with Super Saiyan 3 (or Super Saiyan God, depending on what happens in BoG).
But if Vegeta is still at Goku's level, and he has seen with his eyes Super Saiyan 3, shouldn't it be more easy for him to reach the form? I'd say no. Goku said that it took him years to reach SS3 (at most 7 years), and he was training on the AfterLife, where the body can take more strain, so I believe that having a dead body makes reaching SS3 much easier than with a dead body. But Gotenks was alive when he did it, why would he be able to do it so easily? Because Gotenks was a lot stronger than Goku (SS Gotenks is around SS3 Goku's level), plus, he (or rather, Goten & Trunks) was born with the natural ability to master Super Saiyan at a young age, so I guess they have some extra genetic help to transform beyond Super Saiyan easier than the pure Saiyans.
I'm not saying that Vegeta can't become a Super Saiyan 3, I just believe that he needs even more training to do so.

[TheMightyOzaru]

You forget that Vegeta has changed since he admitted Kakarotto was number 1. He could just simply ask Goku how to achieve it.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

You forget that Vegeta has changed since he admitted Kakarotto was number 1. He could just simply ask Goku how to achieve it.

It's through hard training, like any Super Saiyan form. I don't think it has a special way, since Gotenks achieved it within a week.

[TheMightyOzaru]

You forget that Vegeta has changed since he admitted Kakarotto was number 1. He could just simply ask Goku how to achieve it.

It's through hard training, like any Super Saiyan form. I don't think it has a special way, since Gotenks achieved it within a week.

Hard training is what Vegeta does best and he was Goku's equal in base in the latter part of the Buu saga. 2-4 years should be enough time to attain ssj3.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

You forget that Vegeta has changed since he admitted Kakarotto was number 1. He could just simply ask Goku how to achieve it.

It's through hard training, like any Super Saiyan form. I don't think it has a special way, since Gotenks achieved it within a week.

Hard training is what Vegeta does best and he was Goku's equal in base in the latter part of the Buu saga. 2-4 years should be enough time to attain ssj3.

In my opinion, 2-4 years are not enough, especially in the Living World. If it took Goku 7 years, then Vegeta should need more than 10, IMO. Super Saiyan 3 is that difficult for an alive pure Saiyan to reach, IMO.

[hleV]

since in those 10 years Goku either did normal training on Earth or training at Kaio's (by using Shunkan Ido to go to Heaven), and Vegeta did (even harder) training on the Gravity Room, I guess the gap stayed the same again.

Except that this time there was no gap to begin with.

But Vegeta says that he still wants to surpass Goku in the end

He says that he'll show Goku defeat, not that he's still inferior to him and will become stronger in the future. Why would he even enter the TB if he believed he was weaker...

But if Vegeta is still at Goku's level, and he has seen with his eyes Super Saiyan 3, shouldn't it be more easy for him to reach the form?

Knowing of SS3's existance surely helps, but that's all. Vegeta would need to be somewhat stronger in order to achieve SS3 on Earth conditions.

I'd say no. Goku said that it took him years to reach SS3 (at most 7 years), and he was training on the AfterLife

It's not like Goku's power stayed the same for those years. Once he became strong enough, he transformed.

Gotenks was alive when he did it, why would he be able to do it so easily? Because Gotenks was a lot stronger than Goku (SS Gotenks is around SS3 Goku's level), plus, he (or rather, Goten & Trunks) was born with the natural ability to master Super Saiyan at a young age, so I guess they have some extra genetic help to transform beyond Super Saiyan easier than the pure Saiyans.

I agree, though I think it was mainly (or even completely) Gotenks' strength rather that Goten & Trunks' natural talent that helped him reach SS3.

I'm not saying that Vegeta can't become a Super Saiyan 3, I just believe that he needs even more training to do so.

Since we don't know how strong Vegeta is at the end nor how he compares to Goku, I think the idea that he needs even more training is somewhat redundant.

[Marco Polo]

At the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai, Goku was looking forward to fighting Uub but not Vegeta, which suggests Vegeta still wasn't as powerful as Kid Buu/Uub.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Except that this time there was no gap to begin with.

Which is why I believe that they are still equals (minus SS3).

He says that he'll show Goku defeat, not that he's still inferior to him and will become stronger in the future. Why would he even enter the TB if he believed he was weaker...

He didn't enter for a grand death battle with Goku, he entered just for the fun of it, and to check what's wrong with Oob.

It's not like Goku's power stayed the same for those years. Once he became strong enough, he transformed.

It's not like SS3 is like the other Super Saiyan forms. The other forms just needed the Saiyan to get strong enough (along some emotional conditions for SS), and then with a "bam", the transformation happened. This wasn't the case with SS3, since it took some extra seconds for Goku to complete the transformation the first time we saw it, with Goku saying that he still wasn't used to transforming. So, SS3 seems to be harder to transform compared to the other forms.

I agree, though I think it was mainly (or even completely) Gotenks' strength rather that Goten & Trunks' natural talent that helped him reach SS3.

That's what I believe as well. Their natural talent just gave an extra push, IMO.

[Rocketman]

I don't think it's possible to achieve SS3 in the living world, due to the limitations of a living body.

Vegeta has to eat, sleep and breathe and has the constant danger of pushing himself too hard and having to stop and heal. Dead Goku has infinite endurance, and so does Gotenks until his timer runs out. Gotenks also starts off with far higher power than Vegeta.

[Rostir]

SSJ3 isn't achievable in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber?

[Fox666]

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[VegettoEX]

SSJ3 isn't achievable in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber?

The only thing you gain in the Room of Spirit and Time is... well... extra time. You still have to eat, breathe, etc. It's no different than the outside world in that regard.

[Puto]

Besides, they can't use the Room of Spirit and Time anymore. The door was destroyed, remember?

[Marco Polo]

Besides, they can't use the Room of Spirit and Time anymore. The door was destroyed, remember?

Someone could probably rebuild it or just ask Shenron.

[Rocketman]

Vegeta's already spent two days in the Room, he can't go in again.

[hleV]

He didn't enter for a grand death battle with Goku, he entered just for the fun of it, and to check what's wrong with Oob.

Is that stated/implied somewhere? I very highly doubt that Vegeta would enter if he believed he would actually lose to Goku.

It's not like Goku's power stayed the same for those years. Once he became strong enough, he transformed.

It's not like SS3 is like the other Super Saiyan forms. The other forms just needed the Saiyan to get strong enough (along some emotional conditions for SS), and then with a "bam", the transformation happened. This wasn't the case with SS3, since it took some extra seconds for Goku to complete the transformation the first time we saw it, with Goku saying that he still wasn't used to transforming. So, SS3 seems to be harder to transform compared to the other forms.

I don't exactly understand how are you disagreeing what what I wrote.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Vegeta's already spent two days in the Room, he can't go in again.

Last I checked the ROSAT can only be used for 2 days at a time, not 2 days of your life. Vegeta also died so even if the 2 days at a time thing isn't the case, he should be able to use it again based on his death since his last visit.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't think it's possible to achieve SS3 in the living world, due to the limitations of a living body.

Vegeta has to eat, sleep and breathe and has the constant danger of pushing himself too hard and having to stop and heal. Dead Goku has infinite endurance, and so does Gotenks until his timer runs out. Gotenks also starts off with far higher power than Vegeta.

I never understood this theory to be honest. There is really nothing suggesting this is the case. The idea that real world time screws with the ability to ascend the first time at least makes sense since both Goku and Gotenks achieved it in a place where time is distorted.