Need official Power Levels for Dragonball

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:39 am

Besides, the image above shows Goku as being at 90 000 upon arrival on Namek. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he at 180 000?

I used to think that too, thanks to the dub I think. IIRC, the dub left out Goku's little under his breath Kaio Ken. So, his base is 90,000. The 180 that Ginyu saw was with the Kaio Ken.

Super DC · Post by **Super DC** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:41 am

Xyex wrote:That's the 'supposed offical powers' as made for the Daizenshuu's originally. Other translations have since come out with the lower PLs. Personally, I take the lower ones as the true ones and the originals as typos or just plain absurdity. Going from 90,000 to 3,000,000 is just way too much of a Zenkai.

But I've never heard of these other translations except that bad websites who claim they got it off the daizenshuu.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:39 pm

Super DC wrote:
Goku vs Freeza: 300,000
SSJ Goku: 15,000,000
Freeza (50% of his 4th form): 6,000,000
Freeza (max): 12,000,000
Wait how come the numbers 3.000.000 and 150.000.000 for Goku and 60.000.000 and 120.000.000 for Freeza in the French daizenshuu. And the Japanese translation checks out to be the same way.

They do? I had looked into merely months ago (on these forums) and was told the French made typos-that the Japanese daizenshuu was 10x less for all four instances. I just figured the French daizenshuu made a typo with the the 300,000 of Goku and tried to remain consistent (after all: SSJ being 50 times stronger is mentioned twice in that daizenshuu alone).

A VERY possible reason: Grandline misread it, PN stole it, fanboys took anything PN said as canon. Example: "Tao Pai Pai was never turned into a cyborg!"

Concerning Nappa: for the longest time I agreed. I figured Nappa's max to be in the 7000s, which would explain his fear of Goku's max, yet allow for Vegeta's "There's nothing to worry about" to still ring true.

Another possibility is that Goku was holding back a little. He could have been dragging out the fight intentionally so that his body could adapt to be used for the eventually upcoming kaiokens. In this instance, Vegeta could have referred to his own strength being the reason why Nappa had no need to worry.

Lastly, maybe the PL page simply rounded his strength off at 4000, since his bio didn't give an exact number. The exact words of his bio were "his strength reached that of the 4000s", which would only infer that his max is between four and five thousand, not cofirm it. "In the 4000s" could actually be his true min. Hell, maybe the daizenshuu had a consistency issue with itself!

Super DC · Post by **Super DC** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:56 pm

So then this is the correct version? The one at the end of the 300 is the symbol for million? I don't know what the symbol between the 1 and 2 mean? Could you clear this up for me?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:37 pm

Ok. The French did indeed make a mistake. The symbol at the end must mean thousand. So Goku is 300,000 and 50% Freeza is 6,000,000. The symbol after the 1s would be probably be to multiply it by 10 million, so SSJ Goku is probably read as "1 x ten million + (5000 x one thousand)". Do the math and you get 15 million.

We know it's not "one million" and "one hundred" because then Goku would be only at 30,000 against Freeza, but 90,000 upon his arrival on Namek.

Still, I REALLY want someone who reads Japanese to look at this, please!!!

Just for this alone, I think we should get Mike and Julian cracking on the first ever OFFICIAL strength guide. A PROPER PL rating with pics like this to explain things, and then include dorky things like Punch Machine Scores, Kili ratings, how strong certain transformations make you...

**Pulls out his old 00ber-strength guide from last year** FUCK YOU, WHOEVER STARTED THIS THREAD!!!

El_Diablo · Post by **El_Diablo** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:45 pm

Someone read that scan before and said that it was 120,000,000 and 150,000,000 (on GameFAQs)

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:55 pm

El_Diablo wrote:Someone read that scan before and said that it was 120,000,000 and 150,000,000

The French kept it as pure numbers. You literally had "120.000.000" in the French version. Though in retrospect the original could have had the symbol after the 1 meaning "hundred million" and the symbol at the end meaning "ten thousand".

That's it, I'm PMing Julian.

EDIT: PM sent.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:08 pm

Holy shit! After all these years it's finally official: the French daizenshuu had it right all along! Fanboy plagiarism reaches all-new levels of patheticism!

PM from Saiyajedi wrote:The Japanese says SSJ Goku has a Sento-Ryôku ("Combat Strength") of 150,000,000 (ichioku-gosen-man), vs. Freeza's full power of 120,000,000 (ichioku-nisen-man). Regular Goku fighting Freeza was at 3,000,000 (sanbyaku-man) while Freeza himself was at 50% power, or 60,000,000 (rokusen-man). Of course, these are Daizenshuu levels, so they might not mesh with the information in the series, but that's what it says.

And we thought a jump from 90,000 to 300,000 was a lot! No wonder the daizenshuu says it's impossible to calculate PLs from then on!

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:22 pm

Hey I started this topic so that we could get some straight answers about the power levels that could be determined. Everything I ever knew had Super Saiyan Goku at 15,000,000. This is crazy if it really is 150,000,000. I wonder if it is possible that a typo existed in both versions of those books, or if everything else has been wrong all these years..

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:54 pm

Probably not. Afterall, the daizenshuu took a cop-out and said it was "impossible to calculate his strength from there on", despite the fact that Babidi had the technology (ex: SSJ Buu-era Goku = 3,000 kilis- that'd make non-SSJ 600 kilis, btw).

The jump from 90,000 to 3 million is a bit unbelievable though. His body which had taken the most damage it had ever withstood, had a PL of 24,000. That would mean the healing factor jumped it up to about 1 million, since about 2/3 of his power is from his ki. I could swallow the old 300,000 since his healing factor was at its strongest then, so an increase of 4 times was believable. 40 times, though?

Super DC · Post by **Super DC** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:38 am

I think the studio behind those levels were going on the idea that Goku without kaio-ken was stronger than Vegeta. Goku after all had no aura for several scenes of that fight. Not only that but Vegeta called Goku a super saiyan. Vegeta only thought a super saiyan was a really strong and ruthless saiyan.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:42 am

Dayspring wrote:Probably not. Afterall, the daizenshuu took a cop-out and said it was "impossible to calculate his strength from there on", despite the fact that Babidi had the technology (ex: SSJ Buu-era Goku = 3,000 kilis- that'd make non-SSJ 600 kilis, btw).

Don't you mean 60 kilis? 3,000/50 = 60 after all.

Dayspring wrote:The jump from 90,000 to 3 million is a bit unbelievable though. His body which had taken the most damage it had ever withstood, had a PL of 24,000. That would mean the healing factor jumped it up to about 1 million, since about 2/3 of his power is from his ki. I could swallow the old 300,000 since his healing factor was at its strongest then, so an increase of 4 times was believable. 40 times, though?

'Bit' is an understatement. The CLOSEST anyone else gets to that is Vegeta after the Ginyu Force and before Freeza. He had under 50,000 before them and at least 400,000 after (to match 1st Form Freeza). And I always thought that was pushing it, even if he had been fighting a lot in the passed 24 hours.

Super DC wrote:I think the studio behind those levels were going on the idea that Goku without kaio-ken was stronger than Vegeta. Goku after all had no aura for several scenes of that fight. Not only that but Vegeta called Goku a super saiyan. Vegeta only thought a super saiyan was a really strong and ruthless saiyan.

That's what I'm thinking too. First time I saw those levels they were supported by the 'fact' that Goku was even with Freeza during their warm-up without using the Kaio Ken. I'm pretty sure King Kai says Goku was using it the entire time (Toriyama-sama just hiding it from us for fun and shock factor, or possibly having forgotten it prior to that point). It's always been my belief that Goku was using the Kaio Ken against Freeza at the start, including quick bursts to defelect the finger beams ala what he did to dodge Jiece and Burter earlier.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:50 pm

Xyex wrote:I'm pretty sure King Kai says Goku was using it the entire time

Nope, he says "He's already using it!"
Heh, and that chapter is when the aura started appearing (when they decided to get "serious.") So Goku was even with Freeza, who killed Vegeta, without Kaiô-Ken!

Super DC · Post by **Super DC** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:06 pm

Well Lord Kaio-sama says Goku was already using kaio-ken and that was to Tenshinhan. Tenshinhan brings up kaio-ken around the time Freeza goes half power, 50%. Goku was starting to lose at that point and Tenshinhan believes Goku still has an ace in his hand, the kaio-ken.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:25 pm

Nope, he says "He's already using it!"
Heh, and that chapter is when the aura started appearing (when they decided to get "serious.") So Goku was even with Freeza, who killed Vegeta, without Kaiô-Ken!

That only reinforces the thought that he was using the Kaio Ken from the beginning you realize. Not that he'd just started using it. After all, think about it. Freeza decided to get serious and Goku started losing. If he'd not already been using the Kaio Ken the first blow from 50% Freeza he recieved would have killed him outright.

The reason the aura finally showed up is because Tien asked about it and King Kai revealed that Goku was using it. Toriyama-sama wouldn't have shown it before that because he was waiting to spring that on everyone, make the fight seem more hopeless for Goku.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:59 am

My thought was that Goku showed up on the spot with a PL of 3 mil, which would be sufficient enough to block the finger beams. As of when the fight started, I assumed he was using kaioken times 10, since upon his arrival on Namek he mentioned he wouldn't be surprised if he could use that many kaiokens. Since kaioken is purely spiritual, it's irrelevent how much his healing factor increased his PL prior to battling Freeza. If I'm right, then it would explain why less-than-50% Freeza was dominating the fight anyway, but still not being capable of killing Goku in one hit. I figured Vegeta to be in the 2-2.5 million range.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:46 pm

Apool's bio says he is "possibly weaker than a Namekkian." This would indicate that his PL is in the upper 2,000s since the Namek warriors had PLs of 3,000.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:39 pm

Xyex wrote: That only reinforces the thought that he was using the Kaio Ken from the beginning you realize. Not that he'd just started using it. After all, think about it. Freeza decided to get serious and Goku started losing. If he'd not already been using the Kaio Ken the first blow from 50% Freeza he recieved would have killed him outright.

Actually, I believe the aura showed up WHEN Freeza went 50%.

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:05 pm

Great jumps make sense in the fact that the stronger the opponent, the more of a boost a saiyan gets from fighting against them. However, as previously mentioned, 90,000 to 300,000 makes logical sense. I don't know about this 3 million stuff. Why has this never been mentioned before? Surely there was a typo with later editions having the correct power? If not, this changes everything I thought I understood about the Z series at least in terms of power.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:27 pm

Akira wrote:Great jumps make sense in the fact that the stronger the opponent, the more of a boost a saiyan gets from fighting against them. However, as previously mentioned, 90,000 to 300,000 makes logical sense. I don't know about this 3 million stuff. Why has this never been mentioned before? Surely there was a typo with later editions having the correct power? If not, this changes everything I thought I understood about the Z series at least in terms of power.

So many people "confirmed" the mistake by claiming to have checked the daizenshuu themselves. Maybe they didn't know how to translate it and just figured The Grand Line was correct.

I wish they weren't so damned high. Even the original 12 and 15 million PLs were irrealistic. NOBODY IN THE GALAXY's as strong as the Ginyu force, and they all had PLs under 60,000. Then there's Ginyu himself, the only person to reach over 100,000, and randomly Freeza and King Cold in the hundred millions?

It makes you wonder why Freeza feared the Saiyans. He might not have needed to transform at all even if the entire race, all in Oozaru form, bombarded him at the same time.

Kanzenshuu

Need official Power Levels for Dragonball

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