Was Gokuu at 4,000 in base against Nappa/ Vegeta?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah...but he says "Kaio-Ken" right before he shows Ginyu his power, so the situation is different. When Nappa started making fun of the defeated warriors, Vegeta said Goku's power was "steadily increasing". Since Goku was still very much a beginner using the Kaio-Ken at this point, he wouldn't have the same control as he did after his 100x gravity. Also, Snake Way appeared to be pretty long, so it makes sense for Goku to be tired, especially sense flying was still a big deal at this point in the series.

In short, when Goku powered-up against Nappa, he wasn't tapping into the Kaio-Ken.

[Draken]

Not saying I agree with this theory, but it doesn't reasonably suggest he wasn't using Kaiou-ken when he powered up and said "I won't use it on you." In fact, he did the same thing to Ginyuu to scare him but didn't use it on him, and, when he was flying to Earth from Snake Way, he was tired, so it would make sense his power level might be over 5,000 when he was flying and probably over such when first arrived like how Piccolo was 320 after he fought Raditz and returned to his normal armour gear even though he had just returned from a tiring fight and regenerated his arm.

It's very obvious when he does and doesn't use kaioken. Akira Toriyama is not a very in-depth author and he definitely doesn't think things through very thoroughly, he didn't plan for Goku to be using "invisible kaioken". You forget he ate a senzu bean before going into battle anyways. And he wasn't using kaioken when he explicitly states so.

[IIMaxII]

This is how I have them set-up:


Initial Nappa - 4,000
Full Power - 7,500

Son Goku (Suppressed) - 5,000
Full Power - 8,200
Kaioken x2 - 16,400
Kaioken x3 - 24,600
Kaioken x4 - 32,800

Inital Vegeta - 15,000
Full Power - 18,000
Galick Gun - 24,600
Weakened - 10,000
Oozaru - 100,000

[Darkprince410]

Not saying I agree with this theory, but it doesn't reasonably suggest he wasn't using Kaiou-ken when he powered up and said "I won't use it on you." In fact, he did the same thing to Ginyuu to scare him but didn't use it on him, and, when he was flying to Earth from Snake Way, he was tired, so it would make sense his power level might be over 5,000 when he was flying and probably over such when first arrived like how Piccolo was 320 after he fought Raditz and returned to his normal armour gear even though he had just returned from a tiring fight and regenerated his arm.

Every single time we saw him use the Kaiou-ken during the Saiya-jin Saga though, he has to verbally shout it out to activate it. It doesn't make sense that he'd need to shout it out every other time he's doing it, and just this one time he didn't.

[RandomGuy96]

When will people understand that there is no "Nappa (full power)"? Nappa's power level was 4,000 period. He can't change it and was actually very surprised that others could. There's no reason at all to make Nappa Goku's equal when Goku effortlessly pwned him, with Nappa not managing to do a single thing.

The official number works fine here. Though if I were asked to make up a number for the guide based on what happened in the manga, I'd peg him at 6,000.

[Insertclevername]

How could you really give Vegeta or Nappa "weaker" and "full power" states when they can't even control their BP the same way earthlings can? If Nappa and Vegeta were given the numbers of 4,000 & 18,000 respectively, then that's their power throughout their appearance in Saiyan arc (outside of being weakened in battle).

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

When will people understand that there is no "Nappa (full power)"? Nappa's power level was 4,000 period. He can't change it and was actually very surprised that others could. There's no reason at all to make Nappa Goku's equal when Goku effortlessly pwned him, with Nappa not managing to do a single thing.

The official number works fine here. Though if I were asked to make up a number for the guide based on what happened in the manga, I'd peg him at 6,000.

Nappa is seen with a power-up aura before he attempts to assault Gokuu and does so again after he calms down, suddenly being able to "see" Gokuu's quick movements. It sems pretty obvious he had a power up than Gokuu was supposedly "holding back" when he made no claim or some physical implication of such.

[dprez]

I always felt that Nappa was closer to Goku's "over 8,000" when he calmed down and collected himself after Vegeta yelled at him. It looks that way at least. He was almost able to match Goku blow for blow, when before he was getting blitzed with ease.

[Rocketman]

OR....

Or....

Power levels aren't everything.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

OR....

Or....

Power levels aren't everything.

Vegeta two shot Cui with only a 34% difference, yet people insist Nappa was 4,000 - 6,000 when he fought evenly at the last round with Gokuu. Wasn't much skill involved there; just pure power difference.

[Kamiccolo9]

OR....

Or....

Power levels aren't everything.

Vegeta two shot Cui with only a 34% difference, yet people insist Nappa was 4,000 - 6,000 when he fought evenly at the last round with Gokuu. Wasn't much skill involved there; just pure power difference.

Cui was also panicking, while Nappa was calm. Mental state plays a pretty big role in these early fights. You see a similar circumstance in the Dodoria-Vegeta fight. They were extremely close in power, and Vegeta stomped.

[Kaboom]

OR....
Or....
Power levels aren't everything.

Vegeta two shot Cui with only a 34% difference, yet people insist Nappa was 4,000 - 6,000 when he fought evenly at the last round with Gokuu. Wasn't much skill involved there; just pure power difference.

Exactly. Two different battles playing out in very different ways despite very different power gaps, not because of them. Because power levels aren't everything.

[Kid Buu]

OR....

Or....

Power levels aren't everything.

To quote a certain somebody - "The entire point of Introducing them was to show how unreliable and meaningless they were".

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta two shot Cui with only a 34% difference, yet people insist Nappa was 4,000 - 6,000 when he fought evenly at the last round with Gokuu. Wasn't much skill involved there; just pure power difference.

Fought evenly? Is that what you call getting pwned, mocked, and treated like a child without even managing to make your opponent sweat? Without deflecting any of their attacks or even putting a scratch on them? Then being told by your boss that you're getting your ass kicked, get out of there? The only difference here was that Nappa was able to actually dodge one kick. Being calm WOULD improve perception and reflexes.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Eh, Vegeta seemed to believe Nappa was strong enough to take Goku if he stopped acting like an idiot, tho he did consider that he might have to step in if the battle didn't change. But to be fair, Vegeta's confidence could be based on Nappa's fighting experience rather than his actual raw power compared to Goku. You also have Goku believing the fight could take all day after the quick beam struggle.

I always liked Kaboom's POV here--which cites Nappa's durability as the reason why Goku might have trouble defeating Nappa without Kaio-Ken.

[rereboy]

Nappa is seen with a power-up aura before he attempts to assault Gokuu and does so again after he calms down, suddenly being able to "see" Gokuu's quick movements. It sems pretty obvious he had a power up than Gokuu was supposedly "holding back" when he made no claim or some physical implication of such.

Then please explain why Radditz and the other Saiyans are pretty surprised that Earthlings can change their power level. Would they be surprised if they could actually do the same? Does that make any sense to you?

No, Nappa couldn't change his power level. What you call power up is simply him focusing his power and concentrating so that he can fight more effectively, but a scouter would read the same power level off of him.

(Also, in the manga it is never stated what Nappa's power level was. The 4000 level is from a guide, which can be wrong.)

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Then please explain why Radditz and the other Saiyans are pretty surprised that Earthlings can change their power level. Would they be surprised if they could actually do the same? Does that make any sense to you?

The same reason Vegeta was and did a power up against Gokuu.

[rereboy]

Then please explain why Radditz and the other Saiyans are pretty surprised that Earthlings can change their power level. Would they be surprised if they could actually do the same? Does that make any sense to you?

The same reason Vegeta was and did a power up against Gokuu.

That explains why they are shocked that Earthlings can do it, how?

If Vegeta could do it before, why did he make a big deal out of controlling his power level in Namek?

Why was Cui shocked to realize that Vegeta could increase his power level reading on his scouter when he fought Vegeta in Namek, even though he knew Vegeta's power and abilities pretty well?

You didn't explain it at all...

The only reasonable explanation is that those "power-ups" done by the Saiyans and other fighters may look visually similar but they are different from the power-ups of the Earthlings. Saiyans and the like merely concentrate and focus their power so that they can fight and attack more efficiently. Earthlings, besides doing that, actually summon power that was suppressed deep inside of them as well. That results in the scouter registering increases in power level for the Earthlings but not for the Saiyans and other fighters who can't control their Ki.

This is what Vegeta learned to do on Earth and this is what shocked Cui (because Vegeta couldn't do it before).

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

That explains why they are shocked that Earthlings can do it, how?

Because no one else but them, as elite warriors, could do it, not even Cui, Dodoria or Zarbon.

If Vegeta could do it before, why did he make a big deal out of controlling his power level in Namek?

Why was Cui shocked to realize that Vegeta could increase his power level reading on his scouter when he fought Vegeta in Namek, even though he knew Vegeta's power and abilities pretty well?

You didn't explain it at all...

He was increasing his skills even before he arrived on Earth, as he said to Dodoria and Zarbon. He was also shocked that he was surprised that he was 24,000 and not 18,000 anymore.

[rereboy]

He was increasing his skills even before he arrived on Earth, as he said to Dodoria and Zarbon. He was also shocked that he was surprised that he was 24,000 and not 18,000 anymore.

He was completely confident about Vegeta's power level. If Vegeta had the ability to change his power level prior to going to Earth, he would know about it and he would be cautious fighting Vegeta just in case he had even more power hidden that the scouter wasn't picking up. But instead he was caught completely off guard when Vegeta showed that he could increase his power level. Zarbon and Dodoria are also surprised at this.

Because no one else but them, as elite warriors, could do it, not even Cui, Dodoria or Zarbon.

There's really no more I can tell you than to re-read all the relevant parts of the manga. What is implied is not that at all.