Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Yeah, and Salza one-shotted Gohan at 170,000 (even though Gohan himself is way over 200,000 at this point) and proceeded to keep up with Piccolo, who was apparently tens of times stronger than him. He even survived several attacks and managed to hit Piccolo once, making a small cut on his chest a la Freeza's Death Saucer to Goku, surprising him. And he deflected the same blasts that one-shotted Doore who was, at 185,000, stronger than Salza. And he somehow got Goku to use effort to dodge him and repel his blasts and deflected Goku's attacks in turn despite Goku also apparently being tens of time stronger than him. Oh and Doore and Neiz did the same thing. Then Doore somehow managed to catch Goku's kick and put him in a bear hug, which judging by his expression and grunts gave Goku genuine pain or at least frustration, forcing Goku to use effort to break out, again despite Goku being tens of times stronger than Doore. Hell, Goku even has more difficulty with Salza's blast then Salza does with Goku's.
These guys must be the most skilled fighters ever.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Yeah, and Salza one-shotted Gohan at 170,000 (even though Gohan himself is way over 200,000 at this point) and proceeded to keep up with Piccolo, who was apparently tens of times stronger than him. He even survived several attacks and managed to hit Piccolo once, making a small cut on his chest a la Freeza's Death Saucer to Goku, surprising him. And he deflected the same blasts that one-shotted Doore who was, at 185,000, stronger than Salza. And he somehow got Goku to use effort to dodge him and repel his blasts and deflected Goku's attacks in turn despite Goku also apparently being tens of time stronger than him. Oh and Doore and Neiz did the same thing. Then Doore somehow managed to catch Goku's kick and put him in a bear hug, which judging by his expression and grunts gave Goku genuine pain or at least frustration, forcing Goku to use effort to break out, again despite Goku being tens of times stronger than Doore. Hell, Goku even has more difficulty with Salza's blast then Salza does with Goku's.
These guys must be the most skilled fighters ever.
Or Toei doesn't give a shit about power level accuracy.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
To do what they did against the characters around the time of the android training, Cooler's men all have to be easily in the multi millions. I take those numbers about as seriously as I do 470,000,000 for Cooler.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
The official numbers for Coola's Armored Squad can work with a little creativity, and there's really no need to be so brusquely dismissive of them. You think the people at Weekly Jump who came up with them didn't do their homework either?
No, I don't (neither did the guys at V-Jump) and no, they can't work.
Goku (who is officially post Yardrat at the beginning of this movie, and so probably around 4,000,000 in base) has trouble taking on the squadron. They even deflect his blasts, dodge his hits, get him in a hold that gives him genuine pain/frustration, and make him use a ton of effort to deflect their blasts. He seemed to have more trouble with Salza's energy wave than Nappa did with Gohan's. He even got pushed back. His hands should have at least stung. He in no way dominated them like the Ginyus, yet he's supposed to have a far bigger lead on the squadron than he did on the Ginyus.
Later in the movie, Piccolo uses dirty tricks to take out the squadron one by one rather than just one shot them all like he should be able to do. Salza even briefly keeps up with Picolo, doing much better against him than Nappa did against Goku.
Finally, Salza dispatches Gohan, who is apparently much stronger than him, with a single casual kick.
Saying that those numbers work is even more ridiculous than saying Cooler was only a little bit stronger than Freeza or equal to Mecha Freeza.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
