This is the truth!DBZ Mick wrote:I think GT has more whacked out logic/strength issues than plot-holes.
Was GT overly criticized?
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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KingofWisdom
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
It's not bad in the same way as Dragonball Evolution, which is to say, it's not a train wreck. However, I do find it to be pretty boring. I wholeheartedly agree that the execution is what made it such a massive disappointment. I look back on all the good ideas, and it's like, "What the hell happened?" I wanted to like GT so badly. Now, would I say it was overly criticized? Yes and no. I do think the show is about as bad as it's made out to be, at the same time, maybe it should get points for trying? I don't know, it's sorta watchable.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)
"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)
"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot
Re: Was GT overly criticized?
From a topic a while back, it seemed like a lot of people didn't bother to watch the entire thing and thus passed it off as complete junk.
Yes, it's true the first 20 episodes or so aren't the greatest but I think it picks up quite a lot after that. It's flawed but it has its moments its ending is far superior than Z's original one.
Yes, it's true the first 20 episodes or so aren't the greatest but I think it picks up quite a lot after that. It's flawed but it has its moments its ending is far superior than Z's original one.
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KingofWisdom
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
It didn't make a lot of sense to me as to why Goku rode off with Shenlong. So, I don't know how fond I am of the ending.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)
"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)
"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot
Re: Was GT overly criticized?
I think GT's biggest problem (other than inconsistent strength fuck ups and overall bed execution) is how much it regurgitates old plot elements. I know the manga itself did that a great deal, but that doesn't excuse the continued recycled plot elements, especially for how long Z relied on it.
- Black Star Dragon Balls arc
Another quest for the Dragon Balls. Granted, this one isn't as heavy as the ones I'm about to bring up, but still a tad unoriginal.
- Baby arc
Tsufru revenge plot combined with "Vegeta becomes controlled and evil" again.
- Super 17 arc
Movie 12. Goku's finishing move against Damao.
- SSj4 Gogeta
He dicks around like Vegetto, with much less of a reason to do so.
- Universal Genki Dama
Basically the same fucking thing as the Super Genki Dama against Buu.
- Black Star Dragon Balls arc
Another quest for the Dragon Balls. Granted, this one isn't as heavy as the ones I'm about to bring up, but still a tad unoriginal.
- Baby arc
Tsufru revenge plot combined with "Vegeta becomes controlled and evil" again.
- Super 17 arc
Movie 12. Goku's finishing move against Damao.
- SSj4 Gogeta
He dicks around like Vegetto, with much less of a reason to do so.
- Universal Genki Dama
Basically the same fucking thing as the Super Genki Dama against Buu.
Re: Was GT overly criticized?
He was dead. Vegeta knew he was which is why he turns to Pan who is holding his torn up gi and says, 'Cherish that'. The fact he flies off on Shen Long's back still wearing that gi and in perfect shape should be evidence enough.KingofWisdom wrote:It didn't make a lot of sense to me as to why Goku rode off with Shenlong. So, I don't know how fond I am of the ending.
We see the dragon balls slip inside him, a merging of sorts and this is pretty much where you can make up your own interpretation. Personally, I see him as becoming a spiritual spectator of Earth. Once a man who protected it over and over, he now merges with the very thing that facilitated his efforts over the years as he slips off into legendary status akin to how Shepard is seen at the end of Mass Effect.
We see a specter of him at the end as he watches Son Goku (Jr.) fight mini-Vegeta. He grins whilst walking away, almost implying that he's happy to see an old rivalry form in a new generation with a combined strength to take on whatever fears await in the future - without the need for the dragon balls.
It's such a beautiful and poignant ending that I really have to commend the GT writers despite some shortcomings throughout the series.
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KingofWisdom
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
I thought the series declined after the action took the front stage, until the last episode. Looking back on it, that was definitely the best of GT, and if I were to ever buy it, it would be to play the last episode back from time to time like Mike does.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)
"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)
"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot
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perucho1990
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
Not really
Thanks to GT, we got some of their concepts in the current shounen series like Fairy Tail(current arc specially).
GT was so bad i think Fairy Tail better than it....
Super 17 and Dragons Saga had potential, if Toei wanted 17 to be relevant again, they shouldve give them hell of a boast ala Obito...yeah if it is an asspull.
As for the Dragons, it shouldve been handled like Fairy Tails post magic tournament Arc.
Thanks to GT, we got some of their concepts in the current shounen series like Fairy Tail(current arc specially).
GT was so bad i think Fairy Tail better than it....
Super 17 and Dragons Saga had potential, if Toei wanted 17 to be relevant again, they shouldve give them hell of a boast ala Obito...yeah if it is an asspull.
As for the Dragons, it shouldve been handled like Fairy Tails post magic tournament Arc.
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Hellspawn28
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
The Black Star Dragon Ball arc try to capture the feel of the original Dragon Ball anime, but it end up not working. The humor end up being unfunny and dry. I remember reading that the ratings started to drop badly by the time when the Bebi saga was happening. SSj4 Goku looks cool, but I feel like the form was created just for the stake of boosting up ratings and toy sales. It's like people at Toei and Bandai are like "Hey this new form is cool looking. All of the kids are going to beg their parents to buy our newest action figure!". I still believe if GT did better then Toei would have done another show after 1997. If something is successful then they will keep it going. That's why Toei has been making Super Sentai shows every year since 1979.
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
By the time GT was out, Dragonball had already been stretched to near breaking point. While GT didn't succeed, I think it at least tried to be fresh with it's ideas. It could have just gone through another 'strong guy' plot. But instead they tried with the universal search for the Dragonballs, a mix of Oozaru and Super Saiyan for Super Saiyan 4, the Evil Dragons...
It is in his character to be rude and a bit crass. He's a hick, with no formal education. That is Son Goku. That is who he is.
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Superman in an orange Gi was the bastard son of FUNimation. Its not The real character, it is as false as Chatku.
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KingofWisdom
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
I didn't think it was very funny early on either, but it felt like they were trying. The Baby and Super 17 arcs are insulting in my eyes.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)
"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)
"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot
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Hellspawn28
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
I guess GT did so poorly that Toei has not try to make a new show since then? Kai does not count as a new show since it was a remake of the original DBZ and not a sequel/prequel to the other DB shows.
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Ringworm128
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
Baby is an awesome villain who is on par with Cell and Freeza.
I haven't watched all of Fairy Tail but I haven't notice any GT traits. Except for maybe the characters strengths being all over the place, and even then at least Goku had to go SSJ4 to beat some of his enemies.perucho1990 wrote:Not really
Thanks to GT, we got some of their concepts in the current shounen series like Fairy Tail(current arc specially).
GT was so bad i think Fairy Tail better than it....
Super 17 and Dragons Saga had potential, if Toei wanted 17 to be relevant again, they shouldve give them hell of a boast ala Obito...yeah if it is an asspull.
As for the Dragons, it shouldve been handled like Fairy Tails post magic tournament Arc.
Re: Was GT overly criticized?
Kind of similar to most people, I think GT had some great concepts that just were not as well executed as they could have been. It also had some horrible concepts that should probably have been scrapped. That being said, can I still watch GT and enjoy it? Well, yeah, for the most part. It is kind of like most anime or any show for that matter that I watch. There are episodes I almost always skip over and pieces I don't like, but overall as a whole, I can get some good entertainment out of it.
As for what didn't work, I would say on the whole is the characterization of the major Z players, with the exception of Goku. I understand he is supposed to be the main character but making everyone else entirely useless was a pretty disappointing moment. Pan, I am not overly fond of because I don't see how she went from the little girl at the end of Z to the rather arrogant preteen in GT. However, she does have her moments but I really would have probably liked it better if Goten had been on the trip as originally planned. Of course, I am not a big fan of them downplaying Goten, Trunks and Gohan's powers; I would expect those three to be able to do a lot better than they did.
I am not fond of the hunt for the Black Star Dragonballs and honestly, I really am not sure why. It just never sucked me in like the hunts in Dragonball did. It felt like it was missing something. It was certainly a nice attempt to throw back to the old school Dragonball comedy though and I think that was a noble effort. It just didn't really work for me but I can certainly see how other people got some enjoyment from it.
Now, as for what worked? I'll say right off the bat, the idea of the Shadow Dragons was brilliant. I loved the concept of something they had been utilizing for years to aid them is now their enemy. It makes a lot of sense and given Old Kai's rejection to the use of the dragonballs earlier really makes it connect. The different dragons were interesting and I loved how the 4 Star Dragon had a sense of honor about him and that there was still a sense of connection to Goku's family in that sense.
Super Saiyan Four still remains one of my favorite transformations even if does seem to be stretching the limit a bit. I generally consider it to be the final form (with the exception of SSj God from BOG) and the fact that it looks so different from the other forms really seems to cement that. The call back to needing a tail was also neat because I always loved that about the Saiyans. I really don't know why but I have always loved the tail on the warriors. Seeing it come back was great.
Goku turning into a kid was a neat concept and while it was not used as well as it could have been (I really feel he should have remained an adult after the first SSJ4 transformation) I did like that the dialogue and tone were reflective of Goku being older even if the body was of a small kid. It was a cool contrast and while I wish we could have a seen a bit more of that, it was interesting what we did get. Again, though, I don't think it should have lasted the entire saga.
Piccolo's death still gets me. I think it was a fitting end for his character, as much as I loved him being around, and it really is an interesting comparison looking at Piccolo when he first arrives at the end of Dragonball and at GT. I think the character growth and development on Piccolo was awesome and this scene pretty much sums that up.
So, all in all, is GT bad? No, I would not call it bad but does it have the same 'staying' quality that Dragonball and Dragonball Z had? No, I would say it doesn't. It's a fun ride and one I have gone on several times but as an ending to the Dragonball anime, it is a bit disappointing.
As for what didn't work, I would say on the whole is the characterization of the major Z players, with the exception of Goku. I understand he is supposed to be the main character but making everyone else entirely useless was a pretty disappointing moment. Pan, I am not overly fond of because I don't see how she went from the little girl at the end of Z to the rather arrogant preteen in GT. However, she does have her moments but I really would have probably liked it better if Goten had been on the trip as originally planned. Of course, I am not a big fan of them downplaying Goten, Trunks and Gohan's powers; I would expect those three to be able to do a lot better than they did.
I am not fond of the hunt for the Black Star Dragonballs and honestly, I really am not sure why. It just never sucked me in like the hunts in Dragonball did. It felt like it was missing something. It was certainly a nice attempt to throw back to the old school Dragonball comedy though and I think that was a noble effort. It just didn't really work for me but I can certainly see how other people got some enjoyment from it.
Now, as for what worked? I'll say right off the bat, the idea of the Shadow Dragons was brilliant. I loved the concept of something they had been utilizing for years to aid them is now their enemy. It makes a lot of sense and given Old Kai's rejection to the use of the dragonballs earlier really makes it connect. The different dragons were interesting and I loved how the 4 Star Dragon had a sense of honor about him and that there was still a sense of connection to Goku's family in that sense.
Super Saiyan Four still remains one of my favorite transformations even if does seem to be stretching the limit a bit. I generally consider it to be the final form (with the exception of SSj God from BOG) and the fact that it looks so different from the other forms really seems to cement that. The call back to needing a tail was also neat because I always loved that about the Saiyans. I really don't know why but I have always loved the tail on the warriors. Seeing it come back was great.
Goku turning into a kid was a neat concept and while it was not used as well as it could have been (I really feel he should have remained an adult after the first SSJ4 transformation) I did like that the dialogue and tone were reflective of Goku being older even if the body was of a small kid. It was a cool contrast and while I wish we could have a seen a bit more of that, it was interesting what we did get. Again, though, I don't think it should have lasted the entire saga.
Piccolo's death still gets me. I think it was a fitting end for his character, as much as I loved him being around, and it really is an interesting comparison looking at Piccolo when he first arrives at the end of Dragonball and at GT. I think the character growth and development on Piccolo was awesome and this scene pretty much sums that up.
So, all in all, is GT bad? No, I would not call it bad but does it have the same 'staying' quality that Dragonball and Dragonball Z had? No, I would say it doesn't. It's a fun ride and one I have gone on several times but as an ending to the Dragonball anime, it is a bit disappointing.
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
I feel it's rather not criticized enough yet.
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The Monkey King
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
No, it deserves all the critisism it gets.
Re: Was GT overly criticized?
I recently completed watching DBGT from its start to finish for the first time; and last. The criticism it receives is well-warranted in my opinion. They only set themselves up for it by having the content attach itself too closely to the original for there to be severance. It would actually take more effort to view it as its own product, and even then it's still mediocre. GT can be likened to a tumor affixed to the main series; although it may not be harmful, it's not something you want around.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
kei17 wrote:I feel it's rather not criticized enough yet.
Yet childish bashing of DBGT is okay.Enough with the childish Bieber bash, it's getting annoying.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
kei17 wrote:I feel it's rather not criticized enough yet.
, It gets as much criticism as the Star Wars prequels, I think it's suffered enough.Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DoomieDoomie911
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Re: Was GT overly criticized?
It's criticized way too much, in my opinion. It has it's faults, but overall I think it was really enjoyable. It's nowhere near as good as Dragon Ball, or Z, but it's not that bad at all.kei17 wrote:I feel it's rather not criticized enough yet.
She/her (I have a Twitter account now.)Cipher wrote:Dragon Ball is the story of a kind-hearted, excitable child who uses the power of friendship to improve those around him as he grows into a dangerous obsessive who sometimes accidentally saves the world.