Did Goku lose faith in his sons and earth ?

[PerfectFreeza]

Well, if Goku didn't show up, then Boo would have tossed that giant ki ball at them and killed them, no?
What Goku should have done, is tell Gohan telepathically his plan about the fusion.

[B]

Remember that Toei named most of the movies before writing them, and "If I don't do it, who will?!" is their handiwork. They're track record with keeping characters consistent is spotty, as well.

And even if you want to take those things into account, Goku's attitude couldn't have changed that much as it's still before he goes off to mentor Uub.

Son Goku is too simple-minded to give much thought to things like "my children are useless." I doubt such thoughts ever ran through his mind, or at the very least were anything more than a passing afterthought. "Gohan, Goten, and Trunks lost. Oh, well!" I honestly don't think Goku is capable of feeling disappointment.

[dbzfan7]

Gohan was the reason Goku died. Instead of finishing Cell off he dragged out the fight and Goku had to sacrifice himself to keep Cell from blowing everyone up. You would think after that Gohan would realize that even though he doesn't like fighting protecting the Earth was now his responsibility so he should continue to train hard. Instead we get a Gohan who was barely stronger than Goten at the start of the Buu saga.

How about Goku forcing Gohan into a fight without telling him anything. He basically shoves Gohan into the fight and says "go do it". He doesn't go "Hey Gohan my plan is for you to use your rage boost so you can kill Cell because I sure as hell can't." Goku could have easily ended the whole thing before the saga started by killing Gero, but nope let's fight some Cyborgs.

[qjz123]

Gohan was the reason Goku died. Instead of finishing Cell off he dragged out the fight and Goku had to sacrifice himself to keep Cell from blowing everyone up. You would think after that Gohan would realize that even though he doesn't like fighting protecting the Earth was now his responsibility so he should continue to train hard. Instead we get a Gohan who was barely stronger than Goten at the start of the Buu saga.

How about Goku forcing Gohan into a fight without telling him anything. He basically shoves Gohan into the fight and says "go do it". He doesn't go "Hey Gohan my plan is for you to use your rage boost so you can kill Cell because I sure as hell can't." Goku could have easily ended the whole thing before the saga started by killing Gero, but nope let's fight some Cyborgs.

That still doesn't change the fact that once Gohan had the power to beat Cell he failed to finish him off forcing Goku to sacrifice himself to keep Cell from blowing everyone up. You can keep making excuses for Gohan all you want. Talk about how Goku is an A hole for forcing Gohan into a fight with Cell without telling him anything, Keep saying that it's Goku's fault Majin Buu was released in the first place. Goku and Vegeta gave up their lives to help protect their loved ones can you say the same about Gohan or Gotenks. At the end of the day His sons had immense power and natural talent but they failed to live up to what Goku was and had always been.

[RandomGuy96]

Keep saying that it's Goku's fault Majin Buu was released in the first place

That's because it IS all Goku's fault. Him and Vegeta's. But mostly him, since Vegeta at least tried to repent later, while Goku refused to finish Buu off before he became a big threat.

Goku and Vegeta gave up their lives to help protect their loved ones can you say the same about Gohan or Gotenks

Well, Gohan tried several times at least.

At the end of the day His sons had immense power and natural talent but they failed to live up to what Goku was and had always been.

Goku completely failed to do jack shit against Majin Buu, even when had the immense power to end it, and just made things worse. For the majority of the saga, he's either screwing things up, crying about how Buu is tooooo stroooong, or lying with his face in the dirt. The only reason he "won" was because he had tons of help; he didn't even need a scheming Buu to beat him like the other two did.

[dbzfan7]

That still doesn't change the fact that once Gohan had the power to beat Cell he failed to finish him off forcing Goku to sacrifice himself to keep Cell from blowing everyone up. You can keep making excuses for Gohan all you want. Talk about how Goku is an A hole for forcing Gohan into a fight with Cell without telling him anything, Keep saying that it's Goku's fault Majin Buu was released in the first place. Goku and Vegeta gave up their lives to help protect their loved ones can you say the same about Gohan or Gotenks. At the end of the day His sons had immense power and natural talent but they failed to live up to what Goku was and had always been.

Remember when Goku let Vegeta go, all the nameks who were killed by Vegeta later never were brought back. Goku could have saved earth by killing Boo right away, but nope let's let everyone on earth die. Way to go Goku. Let's stop the Cyborgs before they can exist, no, we're gonna let them out, okay who cares about peoples lives, way to go Goku. Goku could have IDK ASKED his son about fighting Cell. But no he doesn't need to take any sort of care to ask about what anyone else thinks. He doesn't even have to mention to Gohan his plan that if they actually tried to focus on that it may have made things easier and more certain, but no screw that. Gohan has to deal with a form that alters the heart more than any other SSJ form does. Goku also costed the Nameks their planet by not ending Freeza right away, way to go Goku. Goku had the same thing happen to him when he first went SSJ. He was a whole other person filled with rage who wanted to see Freeza suffer. Goku had the power to kill Freeza and lets him go. The first thing he was going to do when he was revived is kill everyone, way to go Goku. Vegeta would have healed and annihilated earth before Goku could recover if Freeza wasn't on namek, so he would have died then and there for letting Vegeta go.

[qjz123]

Goku completely failed to do jack shit against Majin Buu, even when had the immense power to end it, and just made things worse. For the majority of the saga, he's either screwing things up, crying about how Buu is tooooo stroooong, or lying with his face in the dirt. The only reason he "won" was because he had tons of help; he didn't even need a scheming Buu to beat him like the other two did.

The only thing Gohan or Gotenks accomplished against Buu was making him stronger.

[Rocketman]

Basically, Vegetto is the only one free of blame in the Buu Arc.

[RandomGuy96]

The only thing Gohan or Gotenks accomplished against Buu was making him stronger.

Goku did the same AND acted as a fun punching bag.

Basically, Vegetto is the only one free of blame in the Buu Arc.

Refused to finish off Buuhan, even though he could easily wish everyone back later. Let himself get absorbed, resulting in him "dying" since he was too stupid to know that you shouldn't let a magical gum monster you know nothing about eat you. Came up with an unnecessarily complicated plan that got the Earth blown up. Blew up Buuhan's head (in the anime only I think), basically killing the people he was going to rescue and replacing them with weird clones spawned by Majin Buu (adding Super Buu to the list of better fathers than Goku in the process).

[Kid Buu]

Basically, Vegetto is the only one free of blame in the Buu Arc.

Chaotzu. He knew everyone was going to become dumb after Namek, so he wrote himself out of the series.

[PerfectFreeza]

Tenshinhan too.He did something useful.

[Kamiccolo9]

Piccolo would have saved the universe if Buu didn't have bullshit reality warping powers that just showed up at that time for some reason.

[PerfectFreeza]

So basically, the Z-Fighters, that didn't throw a single punch or ki blast or such at Boo, aren't to be blamed.
I guess a less power=less stupidity rule was applied to the Boo saga.

[DBZAOTA482]

Keep saying that it's Goku's fault Majin Buu was released in the first place

That's because it IS all Goku's fault. Him and Vegeta's. But mostly him, since Vegeta at least tried to repent later, while Goku refused to finish Buu off before he became a big threat.

Majin Boo getting released is a lot of people's fault but it basically boils down to Kaioshin not doing his job properly (seriously, he's the overseer of the entire universe yet he knows nothing of how strong the Saiyans are. Ridiculous.).

[rereboy]

No; it was the whole emotional attachment Buu developed to him that made the birth of Super Buu possible. Without that, SS Gotenks probably would've killed Fat Buu (which seems to be what happened in Movie 12's universe). Or at least Goku could've if that became necessary.

Actually, it did. If Goku hadn't shown up and distracted Gohan with the earring, Dende would've healed Gohan, who would've been in top shape to take on Buutenks, whose time had just ran out. I find it unlikely he'd stand still and be unaware long enough to be absorbed in that case.

I'm sorry, you're blaming Mr. Satan for teaching Fat Buu how to feel and that its wrong to hurt people, while you are totally dismissing what those two guys did? Really...?

If those two guys hadn't shown up and tried to kill the dog and Mr. Satan, Super Buu wouldn't ever been born, and Fat Buu wouldn't attack the planet any more. And yet, instead of blaming those two, you are blaming Mr. Satan, who was actually trying his best to save the planet and he pretty much would have done it if not for those two...?

That's not how blame works... Someone is to blame when they actually do something reprovable given the circumstances and that results in something bad. Mr. Satan did nothing wrong, what you are pointing out is merely a causality between the two events, nothing more. For example, if a doctor saves a kid from a disease and that kid grows up to be a serial killer, there is only a causality between the two events, but there's no blame or responsibility to the doctor, nor there should be.

You use that same wrong logic when you talk about Goku in that example, and you also forget that Goku stopped Buu from attacking with a Kienzan immediately after teleporting. Buu was preparing an attack that was meant to kill Gohan, Dende, Tenshinhan and Mr. Satan and that would have killed them all right there if Goku hadn't surprised Buu with a sneak attack. So, without Goku, there would be no chance of Gohan winning at all.

Besides, why aren't you blaming Gohan for letting himself get absorbed by a weaker opponent after having witnessed Gotenks and Piccolo be absorbed? He should have known better... Unlike Gotenks he already knew that Buu could do that and he was stronger than Buu, and yet he fell into his trap all the same... Maybe you should look at Gohan himself instead of saying that it was somehow Goku's fault that he got absorbed.

[Monkey D Goku]

No; it was the whole emotional attachment Buu developed to him that made the birth of Super Buu possible. Without that, SS Gotenks probably would've killed Fat Buu (which seems to be what happened in Movie 12's universe). Or at least Goku could've if that became necessary.

Actually, it did. If Goku hadn't shown up and distracted Gohan with the earring, Dende would've healed Gohan, who would've been in top shape to take on Buutenks, whose time had just ran out. I find it unlikely he'd stand still and be unaware long enough to be absorbed in that case.

I'm sorry, you're blaming Mr. Satan for teaching Fat Buu how to feel and that its wrong to hurt people, while you are totally dismissing what those two guys did? Really...?

If those two guys hadn't shown up and tried to kill the dog and Mr. Satan, Super Buu wouldn't ever been born, and Fat Buu wouldn't attack the planet any more. And yet, instead of blaming those two, you are blaming Mr. Satan, who was actually trying his best to save the planet and he pretty much would have done it if not for those two...?

That's not how blame works... Someone is to blame when they actually do something reprovable given the circumstances and that results in something bad. Mr. Satan did nothing wrong, what you are pointing out is merely a causality between the two events, nothing more. For example, if a doctor saves a kid from a disease and that kid grows up to be a serial killer, there is only a causality between the two events, but there's no blame or responsibility to the doctor, nor there should be.

You use that same wrong logic when you talk about Goku in that example, and you also forget that Goku stopped Buu from attacking with a Kienzan immediately after teleporting. Buu was preparing an attack that was meant to kill Gohan, Dende, Tenshinhan and Mr. Satan and that would have killed them all right there if Goku hadn't surprised Buu with a sneak attack. So, without Goku, there would be no chance of Gohan winning at all.

Besides, why aren't you blaming Gohan for letting himself get absorbed by a weaker opponent after having witnessed Gotenks and Piccolo be absorbed? He should have known better... Unlike Gotenks he already knew that Buu could do that and he was stronger than Buu, and yet he fell into his trap all the same... Maybe you should look at Gohan himself instead of saying that it was somehow Goku's fault that he got absorbed.

I tend to agree with this, Gohan was a major fuckup, he failed to make any difference in the Buu Saga. Gohan was hyped up to be stronger than Gotenks, smarter than Piccolo and tougher than Buu as he put it. Yet this piece of shit didn't learn his lesson from Cell. He toyed around with Cell and in the process got Goku killed when he could have easily ended things. You think after having your Father die because you were too stupid to finish things quickly, Gohan would have killed Buu as fast as possible. Instead he makes things worse. Repeating past mistakes.

Granted Goten and Trunks were kids so their failure was expected though perhaps if they hadn't toyed around with Buu in the Time chamber they could have had a fighting chance.


I understand that there are many at fault during Buu saga for all the things that went wrong. Supreme Kai is a major one his stupid plan using Gohan's energy and not providing valuable information to the z senshi. Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku as well but considering his was dead was it his place to kill Buu. Gohan for his stupidity.


Can you really blame Goku for losing faith almost everyone around him failed to destroy Buu when some of them easily could have.

[dbzfan7]

I tend to agree with this, Gohan was a major fuckup, he failed to make any difference in the Buu Saga. Gohan was hyped up to be stronger than Gotenks, smarter than Piccolo and tougher than Buu as he put it. Yet this piece of shit didn't learn his lesson from Cell. He toyed around with Cell and in the process got Goku killed when he could have easily ended things. You think after having your Father die because you were too stupid to finish things quickly, Gohan would have killed Buu as fast as possible. Instead he makes things worse. Repeating past mistakes.

Granted Goten and Trunks were kids so their failure was expected though perhaps if they hadn't toyed around with Buu in the Time chamber they could have had a fighting chance.


I understand that there are many at fault during Buu saga for all the things that went wrong. Supreme Kai is a major one his stupid plan using Gohan's energy and not providing valuable information to the z senshi. Vegeta for obvious reasons. Goku as well but considering his was dead was it his place to kill Buu. Gohan for his stupidity.


Can you really blame Goku for losing faith almost everyone around him failed to destroy Buu when some of them easily could have.

Goku caused the rebirth of Boo. He could have easily prevented it. Even after that he could have ended the Majin Boo saga by finishing Boo right away. But instead he had bullshit logic of letting someone else clean up his own mess like an idiot. If he never showed up then Boo would not have been born again. This then caused everyone on earth to die as a repercussion. East Kaioshin was also too stupid to warn everyone about Boo's absorption which is a pretty big thing to miss. Gohan though totally botched it when he got absorbed by Boo by just standing there. Though he was pretty confused with Goku's plan which probably distracted him.

I find it really funny how everyone complains about anyone fuck ups but pretty much skip out on Goku's fuck ups which can be seen as worse.

[Dabooyaka]

Well, the "next generation" utterly failed in the clutch against Majin Boo, despite having the power and ability to take care of him. So I wouldn't be surprised if that changed Goku's mindset somewhat. Maybe a little further down the line, he saw Oob as a promising opportunity for a second shot at the whole "passing the torch" thing.

You bring up a good point maybe thats why he abandoned his family again to personally train Uub.

Goku didn't abandon anyone. He trains Uub but nothing suggests that he has abandoned his family or anyone. In fact, Neko Majin Z even suggests that Uub is actually trained near Mt Paozu.

Also, I've always found it incredibly biased that people think Gohan fucked up during the Perfect Cell fight but they don't think Goku fucked up during the Kid Buu fight. Newsflash: Vegeta had to hold Goku's hand in order for him to finally destroy Kid Buu. Otherwise Goku was as clueless as 9-year-old Gohan used to be except it was due to his lack of intelligence instead of emotional weakness.

Really? Last I checked, it was Vegeta's bullshit that got Boo released in the first place. The least Vegeta could do is come up with a plan to kill Boo.

[Kamiccolo9]

Really? Last I checked, it was Vegeta's bullshit that got Boo released in the first place. The least Vegeta could do is come up with a plan to kill Boo.

He did. He wanted to just nuke Babidi's ship from the beginning. Which either would have killed Buu, or, at worst, released him in an extremely weakened state that he and Goku could have easily handled.

[Kid Buu]

Really? Last I checked, it was Vegeta's bullshit that got Boo released in the first place. The least Vegeta could do is come up with a plan to kill Boo.

He did. He wanted to just nuke Babidi's ship from the beginning. Which either would have killed Buu, or, at worst, released him in an extremely weakened state that he and Goku could have easily handled.

Don't forget he wanted to jump in the Dabura fight as well.