Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformation

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformat

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:31 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:Though I don't think he was planning to use his power like this. He was fighting Beerus without noticing the difference between the three forms, I would use the excitement as an excuse, but I think he had almost the same battle power since he lost [Super Saiyan] God's traits and after becoming Super Saiyan again. Goku didn't even know what he did, I assume he used [Super Saiyan] God's power unconsciousnessly to supress Beerus' ultimate attack.
Well, I was referring to Goku's hypothetical battles after BoG, since at that point he should know everything about Super Saiyan God. I wasn't saying he used it like that against Beers, since everything happened by chance at that fight.
Oh sorry :roll: I thought you were referring to the movie itself. But I have my doubts if Goku have known any significant thing about how [Super Saiyan] God works when transforming directly to that form without needing the help of other five righteous Saiyans. This scene in particular is very similar to what he did to escape from Freeza before kaioken x20 and when he absorbed the genkidama at movie 7.
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Re: Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformat

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:27 pm

Goku had no idea he that he went from God to base to SS, and even the 2nd God transformation happened by accident. However, since this is Goku we are talking about, he will discover Super Saiyan God's secrets through training. :wink:
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformat

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:07 pm

So have we reached a general consensus on the form? Because for me its one of the following.

*Goku absorbed SSJG and has its power at all times, essentially Base Goku = SSJG Goku

*Goku learned how to use SSJG by himself without the need for the ritual, making SSJG function like his other SSJ forms.
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Re: Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformat

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:08 pm

Toriyama goes with the first one, so...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformat

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:14 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Toriyama goes with the first one, so...
Well, that explains why Goku is so strong in GT and pretty much cements the whole GT SSJ1 Goku > SSJ3 EoZ Goku.
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Re: Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformat

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:05 pm

As far as I'm concerned, GT never happened, and even if it did, Beerus and Whis are stronger/better than anyone in GT.
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Re: Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformat

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:10 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Well, that explains why Goku is so strong in GT and pretty much cements the whole GT SSJ1 Goku > SSJ3 EoZ Goku.
Well... not really. GT Goku can go Super Saiyan & get a x50 boost, and as well as Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, and even Super Saiyan 4. God Base Goku could only go Super Saiyan & Super Saiyan God, and the difference between his base, SS, and SSGod was insignificant.

The only things that make base GT Goku > SS3 Z Goku are these fights:
  • Goku vs Oob
  • Goku vs Rild
  • Goku vs SS Gohan & SS Goten
  • Goku vs Freeza & Cell
  • SS Goku vs Super #17
For the Oob fight, we didn't see the whole fight, so maybe they didn't show us the parts where Goku transformed so that the SS transformations would be have more special moments for their debuts in GT.
For the fight with Rild, both of them were fucking around when they were in base, and Rild only got serious when he turned into Metal Rild, who defeated SS Goku.
For the fight with Gohan & Goten, they were turned evil & acted cocky, so Goku managed to beat them up because they weren't serious.
For the fight with Freeza & Cell... it doesn't make sense. I personally see it more as a metaphorical situation that shows how much stronger Goku in general has gotten over the years compared to his old great enemies.
For the fight with Super #17, Super #17 was fucking around.

And as for why opponents like Rild or SS Gohan who were fucking around didn't tank Goku's attacks even if they weren't going all out, the anime in general has shown that power isn't the main factor in the fights (base Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta could fight with #13, #14, and #15, base Goku could fight with SS Broli, base Gohan could fight SS Goten in GT, base Goku could fight Paikuhan, etc). In the anime, a skilled yet weak fighter can give a good fight against a stronger fighter. Skill in general seems to play a bigger role in the anime compared to the manga. Determination also seems to play a bigger role in the anime, seeing that when SS3 Goku wasn't falling from Hildegarn's punches, or when base Goku could hold Super Yi Xing Long's ki blast.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Rationalizations for Goku's SS God Power and Transformat

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:24 am

Ehh...I'm inclined to agree with everything besides the Super 17 fight.

That was less Super 17 screwing around and more Goku screwed up big time.

Goku..you clearly see the guy taking all your blasts, the blasts doing nothing, and hes clearly smiling. TAKE. THE. HINT. But nope...just gonna go SSJ4 and fire off a X10 Kamehameha for the baddie to absorb. Yep, that'll show him!

The only issue I had with Super 17 was how 18's bomb somehow threatened him and the fact that all the other Z fighters got trumped by him. Even Vegeta's supposedly strongest attack, The Final Shine, did nothing to Super 17 who at the most, is at SSJ3 Level, pre Goku spamming absorption.
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