Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this debate.

[garnetjester]

The thing is that after Gohan could become SSJ his power increased, so maybe he was afraid of what this new power could do if he couldn't control it well.

At the same time, the other times he fought to defend his friends he was in a dire situation and he still had hope his father would save all of them in Namek or he just knew there was nothing else to do in the Saiyan arc. Being thrust into this fight by his dad, when Goku wasn't even seemingly defeated was a curve ball so he wasn't expecting that development at all and froze in a way, he was always shown to be insecure, so I don't understand how that is OOC. I think Gohan had no idea of his father's plan, otherwise he would've been prepared to really face Cell. Goku never told Gohan of his discovery of who was the strongest.

[thatdbzguy]

The thing is that after Gohan could become SSJ his power increased, so maybe he was afraid of what this new power could do if he couldn't control it well.

At the same time, the other times he fought to defend his friends he was in a dire situation and he still had hope his father would save all of them in Namek or he just knew there was nothing else to do in the Saiyan arc. Being thrust into this fight by his dad, when Goku wasn't even seemingly defeated was a curve ball so he wasn't expecting that development at all and froze in a way, he was always shown to be insecure, so I don't understand how that is OOC. I think Gohan had no idea of his father's plan, otherwise he would've been prepared to really face Cell. Goku never told Gohan of his discovery of who was the strongest.

Still doesn't explain his sudden fear of his power and him not doing shit while his friends were getting beat up.

[rereboy]

The thing is that after Gohan could become SSJ his power increased, so maybe he was afraid of what this new power could do if he couldn't control it well.

At the same time, the other times he fought to defend his friends he was in a dire situation and he still had hope his father would save all of them in Namek or he just knew there was nothing else to do in the Saiyan arc. Being thrust into this fight by his dad, when Goku wasn't even seemingly defeated was a curve ball so he wasn't expecting that development at all and froze in a way, he was always shown to be insecure, so I don't understand how that is OOC. I think Gohan had no idea of his father's plan, otherwise he would've been prepared to really face Cell. Goku never told Gohan of his discovery of who was the strongest.

But he has no reason to believe that. No SSJ has ever had that kind of problems and Gohan himself never had those kind of problems. Like I said, that notion that somehow it might be bad and that he is afraid of it appears out of nowhere. I'm not opposed to Gohan being developed in that direction, but in order for it to not look inconsistent and out of character, I believe some leading up to that reasoning was required. Without it, its very apparent that Gohan only develops his reasoning in order to create more drama and tension in the plot, instead of it being a organic and natural development of the character.

And I was talking about him not hesitating when somebody was about to die. He saved Piccolo in Namek from third form Freeza with a rage boost despite the fact that both Piccolo and Freeza were apparently way stronger than he was himself. Still, he didn't hesitate to act and try to save him and he managed to do it. Goku still being stronger than Gohan at that time is irrelevant because at that moment Goku was incapacitated and unable to save Piccolo. There was no one else able to save Piccolo but Gohan didn't hesitate to give it his all and try his best to save him. But in the Cell saga, when Piccolo and the rest of the gang are about to die and once again there is no one else able to save them, Gohan doesn't attack Cell or the Cell Jrs. He hesitates and just stands there. His behavior is clearly different from before and there's no real good explanation for it, that's the inconsistency. There wouldn't be a problem if these changes had some leading up to it that explained it better, but they just appear out of nowhere in clear contrast to how Gohan had behaved before.

If only Gohan had tried to attack the Cell Jrs but Cell had stopped him, and then Gohan had attacked Cell and gave him a better fight than the one he had gave him before, but still being unable to slip past Cell and get to his friends and family, that would be great and consistent with his previous behavior. The reason for his previous half-assed performance would have been attributed to his confusion and lack of confidence in the fact that he had been given the role of savior by his father like you were saying, and the reason for his better performance would clearly be him regaining his confidence due to the necessity of saving his family and friends. His SSJ2 transformation could still have been triggered by the death of #16 after he had interfered with the fight between Gohan and Cell and said some words to Gohan.

[thatdbzguy]

But in the Cell saga, when Piccolo and the rest of the gang are about to die and once again there is no one else able to save them, Gohan doesn't attack Cell or the Cell Jrs. He hesitates and just stands there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Gohan at that point trying to awaken all of his power, or was that just in the anime?

[Wibbs]

The thing is that after Gohan could become SSJ his power increased, so maybe he was afraid of what this new power could do if he couldn't control it well.

At the same time, the other times he fought to defend his friends he was in a dire situation and he still had hope his father would save all of them in Namek or he just knew there was nothing else to do in the Saiyan arc. Being thrust into this fight by his dad, when Goku wasn't even seemingly defeated was a curve ball so he wasn't expecting that development at all and froze in a way, he was always shown to be insecure, so I don't understand how that is OOC. I think Gohan had no idea of his father's plan, otherwise he would've been prepared to really face Cell. Goku never told Gohan of his discovery of who was the strongest.

But he has no reason to believe that. No SSJ has ever had that kind of problems and Gohan himself never had those kind of problems. Like I said, that notion that somehow it might be bad and that he is afraid of it appears out of nowhere. I'm not opposed to Gohan being developed in that direction, but in order for it to not look inconsistent and out of character, I believe some leading up to that reasoning was required. Without it, its very apparent that Gohan only develops his reasoning in order to create more drama and tension in the plot, instead of it being a organic and natural development of the character.

And I was talking about him not hesitating when somebody was about to die. He saved Piccolo in Namek from third form Freeza with a rage boost despite the fact that both Piccolo and Freeza were apparently way stronger than he was himself. Still, he didn't hesitate to act and try to save him and he managed to do it. Goku still being stronger than Gohan at that time is irrelevant because at that moment Goku was incapacitated and unable to save Piccolo. There was no one else able to save Piccolo but Gohan didn't hesitate to give it his all and try his best to save him. But in the Cell saga, when Piccolo and the rest of the gang are about to die and once again there is no one else able to save them, Gohan doesn't attack Cell or the Cell Jrs. He hesitates and just stands there. His behavior is clearly different from before and there's no real good explanation for it, that's the inconsistency. There wouldn't be a problem if these changes had some leading up to it that explained it better, but they just appear out of nowhere in clear contrast to how Gohan had behaved before.

If only Gohan had tried to attack the Cell Jrs but Cell had stopped him, and then Gohan had attacked Cell and gave him a better fight than the one he had gave him before, but still being unable to slip past Cell and get to his friends and family, that would be great and consistent with his previous behavior. The reason for his previous half-assed performance would have been attributed to his confusion and lack of confidence in the fact that he had been given the role of savior by his father like you were saying, and the reason for his better performance would clearly be him regaining his confidence due to the necessity of saving his family and friends. His SSJ2 transformation could still have been triggered by the death of #16 after he had interfered with the fight between Gohan and Cell and said some words to Gohan.

Maybe Gohan was letting the Cell Jrs beat up his friends because he knew if he got angry he could take all of them down with no effort. That speech he gave showed that he was aware that if he became angry enough he would snap and possibly ascend beyond his mastery of the Super Saiyan form. Granted it is out of character in a manner of speaking that Gohan would use his friends pain to power up, but if he knew all he had to do was wait that little bit longer... I'm kind of at a loss with this one, it's seems no matter which way you spin it Gohan appears to be out of character. But then looking back on when Goku first asks Gohan to fight Cell he's reluctant to begin with. He doubts his own power before he has thrown his first punch, which isn't out of character for Gohan at all come to think of it. He never wanted to fight to begin with; however, that still doesn't explain why he didn't attack the Cell Jrs. Damn it, this is a tough one.

[Michsi]

The problems are:
- him being suddenly afraid of his rage boosts when he has never come close to doing anything regrettable with them at all. All they ever did was allow him to attack the enemy with more power than what he normally could. Nothing else ever happens;

I'm not sure where Gohan being afraid of his rage boost comes from. At the very least, I never saw it as such.

- him making a so half-assed effort to fight Cell after Cell had refused to stand down and him not trying at all to stop Cell as his friends and family were being tortured and very close to being killed by Cell when Gohan had never hesitated to fight a stronger opponent to defend and save his friends and family before, even with very little odds of succeeding.

Well, half -assed implies someone more or less willingly doesn't give their best at something and I seriously doubt Gohan was doing it on purpose. He just couldn't do more. It pretty simple as fas as I'm concerned: Gohan's performance is extremely depended on his mental state and because of his inner turmoil he couldn't do better than that. He probably didn't really understand it himself why he could gather the rage he needed and when his friends were being attacked he panicked instead.

[baneofdemon22]

I agree with you Flame Dragon. I don't think he was out of character. I really liked the development and thought it made perfect sense with the way he acted.

[Wibbs]

I've been thinking that perhaps since Gohan had reached the peak of what was possible with the Super Saiyan form and that he was also under the impression that Goku (who he believes to be the strongest) had given up and was unable to beat Cell, that maybe he didn't believe in his own strength as shown when he is first asked to fight Cell via his inner monologue. At this point he also had an undertstanding that when he got really mad he flew into a rage and went above and beyond the limits of his power, so is it fair to assume that he is perhaps allowing his friends suffering to contribute to him powering up in the hope that this will aid him in defeating Cell. This does point more to Gohan being out of character at that point in time as I'm not so sure he would use his friends like that, but what if you assume what I said above is true. That Gohan is letting all these things happen because he wants to get mad, because in doing so he will gain the strength he needs to beat Cell and in doing so save his friends. Gohan would be risking his life to save his friends using incredible power which he gained from getting angry, which would be entirly in character. Whether Gohan is using more questionable methods to gain this power is beside the point, he is still using his anger to help his friends as he has done in the past. I realize there are a ton of holes in my argument but it's the only conclusion that I can come to.

[rereboy]

The problems are:
- him being suddenly afraid of his rage boosts when he has never come close to doing anything regrettable with them at all. All they ever did was allow him to attack the enemy with more power than what he normally could. Nothing else ever happens;

I'm not sure where Gohan being afraid of his rage boost comes from. At the very least, I never saw it as such.

- him making a so half-assed effort to fight Cell after Cell had refused to stand down and him not trying at all to stop Cell as his friends and family were being tortured and very close to being killed by Cell when Gohan had never hesitated to fight a stronger opponent to defend and save his friends and family before, even with very little odds of succeeding.

Well, half -assed implies someone more or less willingly doesn't give their best at something and I seriously doubt Gohan was doing it on purpose. He just couldn't do more. It pretty simple as fas as I'm concerned: Gohan's performance is extremely depended on his mental state and because of his inner turmoil he couldn't do better than that. He probably didn't really understand it himself why he could gather the rage he needed and when his friends were being attacked he panicked instead.

In the manga, Gohan literally only tries to hit Cell once before he goes SSJ2, and when he tries it, he not only hits Cell but he also makes him fall. That's why it was half-assed. He's clearly capable of doing better, even as a SSJ1, but he doesn't even try to hit him more than once, he doesn't try to follow up on the attack that he landed and afterwards doesn't even try to attack Cell as his friends are about to die. I'm not saying that he's losing on purpose but its clear that he's not really trying his all like he has always done in these situations.

Him being afraid comes from him not wanting to lose control. But it depends on interpretation. We could interpret it as him not really being afraid, but just not wanting to use his rage boost because he doesn't want to fight and kill anybody. But then instead of the problem of him being afraid, we have the problem of him not wanting to fight and hurt people that are about to hurt his friends and family when he never had a problem with it before. So, instead of him being afraid, we have him being an unreasonable pacifist since it wouldn't be unreasonable to try to convince Cell not to fight, but going as far as Gohan went, not really trying his hardest to fight even as his family is about to die, is unreasonable. And Gohan has never been unreasonable before.

[Michsi]

In the manga, Gohan literally only tries to hit Cell once before he goes SSJ2, and when he tries it, he not only hits Cell but he also makes him fall. That's why it was half-assed. He's clearly capable of doing better, even as a SSJ1, but he doesn't even try to hit him more than once, he doesn't try to follow up on the attack that he landed and afterwards doesn't even try to attack Cell as his friends are about to die. I'm not saying that he's losing on purpose but its clear that he's not really trying his all like he has always done in these situations.

I can't look it up right now, but nevertheless I'm not sure picking the fight apart kick for kick is the right way to look at ir. All I remember is that he did fight or at least tried to fight. Yes, he is capable of more physically,but not at that moment, not in that fight for all the reasons I stated. Yes, you can say he is doing an extremely lousy job but not for lack of trying. I seriously doubt he would not do better if he could. That he wouldn't protect his friends if he could. But this is what it comes down to in the end. That he couldn't, not that he wouldn't.

[rereboy]

I can't look it up right now, but nevertheless I'm not sure picking the fight apart kick for kick is the right way to look at ir. All I remember is that he did fight or at least tried to fight. Yes, he is capable of more physically,but not at that moment, not in that fight for all the reasons I stated. Yes, you can say he is doing an extremely lousy job but not for lack of trying. I seriously doubt he would not do better if he could. That he wouldn't protect his friends if he could. But this is what it comes down to in the end. That he couldn't, not that he wouldn't.

I'm not saying that his lack of effort isn't because of his mindset. I agree that it is because of his mindset at that moment. I'm just saying that that mindset is inconsistent because it appears out of nowhere with nothing leading up to it and no good explanation. I'm not even opposed to Gohan developing that way, I just feel it wasn't properly explained or elaborated and as such it feels inconsistent and just an excuse to create more tension and drama.

[Godo]

What we have to take into consideration is that Gohan both spent one year in the ROSAT, as well as the fact that he spent several days in complete peace together with his family.
Both these factors can change a person, especially the ROSAT, which is mentally and physically exhausting.
Gohan was a kid, he grew up. Not like a Saiya-jin does, but like an Earthling would do. I could see the same words come out of Kuririn's mouth as well.
Neither the Earthlings nor Gohan have anything to prove to anyone, nor any enjoyment fighting in life or death situations.
Gohan simply took responsibility over his own power and was finally able to gauge it, instead of letting the adults make the decisions.

And when Gohan grows up, this stays the same. In Babidi's Spaceship, Gohan enjoys the thought of fighting. He describes it like a video game, and even joins Rock-Paper-Scissors.
This is considering that they all felt strong and were not taking Babidi's minions seriously.
Unlike Goku and Vegeta, though, there is not a single notion of him enjoying his fights when they go south.

So I believe that the change occurred in the ROSAT and during the days of peace.
It was not an out of character moment, since Gohan's personality changed and kept that way (a kind of reasonable change).
Gohan was in my opinion very much in character.

[ABED]

Why do so many of you keep talking about Gohan's enjoyment, or lack thereof, of fighting? That's not the issue or the argument. The issue is why he got cold feet. He didn't like fighting, fine, but that didn't stop him from being gung ho from the fight against Vegeta onward.

[Michsi]

I'm not saying that his lack of effort isn't because of his mindset. I agree that it is because of his mindset at that moment. I'm just saying that that mindset is inconsistent because it appears out of nowhere with nothing leading up to it and no good explanation. I'm not even opposed to Gohan developing that way, I just feel it wasn't properly explained or elaborated and as such it feels inconsistent and just an excuse to create more tension and drama.

Well, I suppose it could have been done better from a story telling perspective and not just have Piccolo tell it to the readers in 4 panels but then again scenes like these were never really Toriyama's strong point (I believe he even admits this).

The reason why Gohan's behavior might seem unusual is because the circumstances that led up to that behavior were unusual. Yes, he has dealt with powerful villains before, yes, he has been in dangerous situations before, but I'm pretty sure doubting his father, the person he looked up to the most, and whether a fair fight or Gohan's life was more important to him, was new.

[ABED]

Gohan's problem was self-doubt, not questioning his father's love.

[Michsi]

Gohan's problem was self-doubt, not questioning his father's love.

I disagree, at least not at that point. Piccolo clearly states it's because of Goku and tbh it makes perfect sense in context.

[DBZAOTA482]

Why do so many of you keep talking about Gohan's enjoyment, or lack thereof, of fighting? That's not the issue or the argument. The issue is why he got cold feet. He didn't like fighting, fine, but that didn't stop him from being gung ho from the fight against Vegeta onward.

Gohan wasn't really all that gung ho against Vegeta. He only started fighting back in the earnest after Vegeta started brutalizing his father but eventually relapsed to wussing out.

In the manga, Gohan literally only tries to hit Cell once before he goes SSJ2, and when he tries it, he not only hits Cell but he also makes him fall. That's why it was half-assed. He's clearly capable of doing better, even as a SSJ1, but he doesn't even try to hit him more than once, he doesn't try to follow up on the attack that he landed and afterwards doesn't even try to attack Cell as his friends are about to die. I'm not saying that he's losing on purpose but its clear that he's not really trying his all like he has always done in these situations.

I think you're underrating the situation a little too much. Think about it, there's 7 Cell Juniors and only one of him. They're all torturing his crew at once so naturally he'd want to do everything in his power to help them out but he can't tap into that power by will. Attacking Cell isn't to resolve anything.

Also, Cell is faster than he is.

Gohan's problem was self-doubt, not questioning his father's love.

A son questioning his father's priorities doesn't mean he's questioning his love. If Piccolo's words were "Does my father even love me?" then you got a point.

[RandomGuy96]

It doesn't matter that there are 7 when he can take them out with one good blow each. Goku would lose to all seven... but not Gohan.

[DBZAOTA482]

It doesn't matter that there are 7 when he can take them outwith one good blow each.

That's debatable. We don't even know exactly how strong Gohan is during the Cell Games as a Super Saiyan.

[RandomGuy96]

We do know that Goku was way stronger than Vegeta, who was equal to the juniors, and that Gohan was waaaaaaaaaay stronger than Goku.