Why do we need a BIG roster for?

[Darknat]

Roster is only for replay value and variety as there is only so long you can play DBZ without getting bored of the same thing you've already had offered before. But in exchange for a huge roster is, development time cuts just to model them, gameplay effort is reduced to save time, and the often randomizer system they have choosing who gets put in makes it so unpredictable that we often get useless characters like Babidi, Spopovich, Roshi, King Cold, Kid Chi Chi etc instead of legitament, yet-to-be-seen adds like Chilled, Tora, GT Vegeta, Kid Uub, GT/Adult Goten, Eis Shenron.. Gine even (for what-if sake). The bigger issue is that, the fact large rosters never stay consistant. Adds today will be taken out for the sequel or just used as a gimmick in itself just for the privelige of having them: (Hachiyack).

The worst part of Spike's marketing is that they include transformations as seperate entities. Programing wise they are in their games but series wise. 5 Gokus is still Goku. Yet the fans get spoiled drunk on the roster and forget gameplay being a bigger priority. All throughout the RB phase, every single mention from the fans was on nothing but roster increases, but not to balance it by removing the weak characters in favour of stronger ones, just the addition of characters for the sake of it even if they're pointless (Kami, King Kai, Mummy man) because there is no standard set. Then when the sequel reguts the roster to the barebone essentials we got in UT, and BOZ it just turns into a monotinous reset instead of an improvement time and time again. BT has done a lot of ironic damage to the franchise thats gone too far. I'm all for a large roster but not if its just going to be nothing but a handful of simple collectables of characters that people dont even use like Appule or Freeza Soldier. However for Dimps games I kind of wish they did expand the roster. Not to massive extents like BT3 but to at least a fair 60. They've never put movie characters in the games besides Broly and Janemba... I want to play as Bojack, Zangya, and Tullece in a Burst limit game.

For Spike's games I think we should have a character creator expanded enough to compensate for a roster. With the freedom to make your own range of characters of all base races, forms and genders, fans can make their own roster instead of waiting on luck for us to get characters we actually want.

The end result is, if you want all the characters to play differently, you cant expect a huge roster. Too much time needed for that and with the new characters as expendable as they are treated by the developers themselves, why bother? I'd rather just a good engine. I can life if characters share strings, I'm playing as so-&-so because I like these characters.

No character is useless in my opinion. I play as much with Appule as with any other. If you mean relevant to the main story, that's another thing, but Appule is as relevant as Gine or Kid Uub. They barely do anything at all.

About removing weak characters and adding strong ones, that doesn't make much sense in a fighting game. It's true that characters have different tiers, but even if they added General Rild for instance, doesn't mean he would be stronger than Appule in the game. Characters are as strong as the developers want them to be. How strong they were in the show is irrelevant here.

About transformations, I like that they are considered different characters because that means they have differnet chains and different moves. If the moved and did exactly the same moves then they may as well be just costumes.

Character creator is something I actually don't want in the game. It usually takes a lot of time to do a character creator and that time is better spend making the gameplay and roster better. I don't want another Soul Calibur V... People usually say that with a good character creator they could create characters from the show but the truth is that as good as a character creator is, there will be always something off for the characters created.

As I see it, they should at least give each game 2 or 3 years. The better way is to give turns to the different developers. That way we can also get different kind of games. For instance, let Dimps develop a game, then during the development and release, let Spike do their thing in another game, and even artdink could do something as well. That would give the developers enough time to do a good game and we could get different gameplay as well (2D gameplay, 3D gameplay, Brawl Gameplay). Also instead of resetting everything for each game iteration they do, they should improve what they had. The Sparking series on PS2 did that quite well. Gameplay and Roster was expanded a lot between games.

[dbboxkaifan]

Normally I just tend to use 2-4 characters for the entire game, which are Goku, Ultimate Gohan, Perfect Cell and Kid Boo. So no, I don't care about a big roster, instead give me a great game with variety of characters that won't feel like clones.

The only game which I actually used all 100 characters were in Raging Blast 2's "Story Mode".

[EXBadguy]

If it were a Dimps game, then I expect them to create at least 4-5 new characters, whether if its from either one of the series or just an original design, but if it was SPIKE, fans expect 100 more characters that do play almost the same. For me, since this gaming generation is hard, I expect them to add at least 10 new characters since I rather have good gameplay than have 200 characters that play the same. RB2 was almost close to match with BT3 IMO.

snip

I understand where you're coming from with this, but if Spike wants to put "weak" characters, then at least put in some better ones than Appule or Frieza soldiers, but ones that actually have unique abilities than ones who just shoots ki blasts #1 and #2.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

No character is useless in my opinion. I play as much with Appule as with any other. If you mean relevant to the main story, that's another thing, but Appule is as relevant as Gine or Kid Uub. They barely do anything at all.

I dont rate characters based on likability or story relevance. I like obscure characters; but the ones that hold some sort of significance even if its very minimal. Fasha/Celipa is my favourite to play as because I like her design and she is actually relatively unique in animations, special moves and transformation. She doesnt just have "Full-power-Ki-Wave." but actual distinctive other attacks. Shes equal to Bardock Imo. However, she at a flaw is slow mainly to show how weak she is to the other characters and thats the problem with Spike.The only reason characters are useless in Spike games is because they're made useless. I only call characters useless if they poorly preform in gameplay, if they're normal to small sized and slow with clunky combos like Cui/Appule/King Vegeta etc but Freeza soldier isnt even a character, hes literally nameless fodder holding up a slot. They add weak characters but make them so weak just to emphasize that. If this was Burst limit any character could be made good. No character is particularly faster than another which balances out the use of each character.

About removing weak characters and adding strong ones, that doesn't make much sense in a fighting game. It's true that characters have different tiers, but even if they added General Rildo for instance, doesn't mean he would be stronger than Appule in the game. Characters are as strong as the developers want them to be. How strong they were in the show is irrelevant here.

Thats only possible if the engine itself is balanced enough to support any character based on a general mutual frame pace, not by the assumed strength of them in the show. As I said in burst limit, even characters like Nappa and Recoome can be a main to someone because of how fast they are through the engine, in Spike's games its pretty much impossible to chain anything with Racoome, even as undersized he is too. For Spike i'd rather them take out characters they purposely made useless if they're not going to balance the game itself to support them equally.

About transformations, I like that they are considered different characters because that means they have differnet chains and different moves. If they moved and did exactly the same moves then they may as well be just costumes.

Not really, through Spikes method they use that as a sly marketing tool. They could tell you, you're getting 5 characters and end up all just being standard forms of Goku already stapled to the default. Goku SSJ may play different from SSJ3 but they're still Goku. When people think of characters they think of different people, not forms.

With Dimps games, even though characters retain the same animations throughout their forms, their forms are support by actual stat gains which is what a transformation should do by definition. I'd like it if they made the SSJ animations differ between forms but that would probably distort cancel combos.

Character creator is something I actually don't want in the game. It usually takes a lot of time to do a character creator and that time is better spend making the gameplay and roster better. I don't want another Soul Calibur V... People usually say that with a good character creator they could create characters from the show but the truth is that as good as a character creator is, there will be always something off for the characters created.

I think them prioritizing cutscenes to a storymode we've played through over 9000 times already is a bigger waste of time. At least with a character creator we'd always have something new in the game when we've seen everything else done before. I for one and tired of playing as the same characters by now, and even more tired of them taking out characters I like and having to wait for them to add them back if ever 2 sequels later. Id rather just make my own characters and most DBZ fans predominently do that already but theres never been a real outlet to support it.

As I see it, they should at least give each game 2 or 3 years.

If spike knows how to manage their time it would benifit them but, knowing them they'd probably waste the extra year just on cutscenes or graphics.

[DarkPrince_92]

All I would say is... a game with a reasonable roster might benefit from an well done Character Creation System. That way, we can have unique characters, and if someone wants to try and create an existing character that didn't make the cut, they could then do so.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

If it were a Dimps game, then I expect them to create at least 4-5 new characters, whether if its from either one of the series or just an original design, but if it was SPIKE, fans expect 100 more characters that do play almost the same. For me, since this gaming generation is hard, I expect them to add at least 10 new characters since I rather have good gameplay than have 200 characters that play the same. RB2 was almost close to match with BT3 IMO.

snip

I understand where you're coming from with this, but if Spike wants to put "weak" characters, then at least put in some better ones than Appule or Freeza soldiers, but ones that actually have unique abilities than ones who just shoots ki blasts #1 and #2.

Its not even that, its the fact that Spike seems to pick characters out of a hat to add into the game instead of characters people actually want to see. I don't remember anyone wanting, Doore, or Neiz in the games, they were added, they suck and such slots wasted.

[DarkPrince_92]

Its not even that, its the fact that Spike seems to pick characters out of a hat to add into the game instead of characters people actually want to see. I don't remember anyone wanting, Doore, or Neiz in the games, they were added, they suck and such slots wasted.

Yeah. I always thought it was a waste to have "new" characters that have nothing to them... Salza is cool, the rest of that armored squadron is useless. Aside from their ultimate move, their moveset is pretty sub-par compared to the rest of the roster. Same could be said about Tarble, Android 14 and 15, and the new SSJ3 characters from Raging Blast 2. All show and no substance.

[Darknat]

I dont rate characters based on likability or story relevance. I like obscure characters; but the ones that hold some sort of significance even if its very minimal. Selypa/Celipa is my favourite to play as because I like her design and she is actually relatively unique in animations, special moves and transformation. She doesnt just have "Full-power-Ki-Wave." but actual distinctive other attacks. Shes equal to Bardock Imo. However, she at a flaw is slow mainly to show how weak she is to the other characters and thats the problem with Spike.The only reason characters are useless in Spike games is because they're made useless. I only call characters useless if they poorly preform in gameplay, if they're normal to small sized and slow with clunky combos like Cui/Appule/King Vegeta etc but Freeza soldier isnt even a character, hes literally nameless fodder holding up a slot. They add weak characters but make them so weak just to emphasize that. If this was Burst limit any character could be made good. No character is particularly faster than another which balances out the use of each character.

Thats only possible if the engine itself is balanced enough to support any character based on a general mutual frame pace, not by the assumed strength of them in the show. As I said in burst limit, even characters like Nappa and Recoome can be a main to someone because of how fast they are through the engine, in Spike's games its pretty much impossible to chain anything with Racoome, even as undersized he is too. For Spike i'd rather them take out characters they purposely made useless if they're not going to balance the game itself to support them equally.

And why get rid of them isntead of balancing them. Every character has a chance if they add to them new attacks. Selipa is a good example, she didn't even fight in the show, but she has plenty of original animations and moves. Even DB Heroes added a new cool move to her where she creates a energy ball and kicks it instead of just shooting it as everyone does. Bardock on Budokai had that nice attack where he punches and throws a ki blast that explodes. They can add nice moves to all characters if they just are a bit creative.

About weak characters, the problem is that Spikes games are a bit different to fighting games and more closer to driving games. What I mean is that what makes characters different in Sparking Meteor for instance is not just the movesets but also their stats. some are really fast like Buu or Burtter and some have a lot of Life bars like Reekum. Some charge ki faster some don't, and so on. It's very possible to balance that, but then everyone will be exactly the same.

Not really, through Spikes method they use that as a sly marketing tool. They could tell you, you're getting 5 characters and end up all just being standard forms of Goku already stapled to the default. Goku SSJ may play different from SSJ3 but they're still Goku. When people think of characters they think of different people, not forms.

With Dimps games, even though characters retain the same animations throughout their forms, their forms are support by actual stat gains which is what a transformation should do by definition. I'd like it if they made the SSJ animations differ between forms but that would probably distort cancel combos.

That's true, but take into consideration that internally in the game they are different characters. The have their own animations, their own moves, their own stats. True that we get several Goku's forms as characters, but the truth is that they are different characters.

I think them prioritizing cutscenes to a storymode we've played through over 9000 times already is a bigger waste of time. At least with a character creator we'd always have something new in the game when we've seen everything else done before. I for one and tired of playing as the same characters by now, and even more tired of them taking out characters I like and having to wait for them to add them back if ever 2 sequels later. Id rather just make my own characters and most DBZ fans predominently do that already but theres never been a real outlet to support it.

Well, I do prefer a big defined roster than a lot of created characters without personality. Character creator won't take the time from a storymode, they would take the time from characters themselves. A story mode can just be programed and animated, a character creator needs also lots of modeling, so instead of getting more characters or costumes from characters, we'll get several pieces that in the end won't look good together or would be very limiting one way or another.

About the Story, personally I haven't yet played a good storymode of Dragon Ball that covers all of Dragon Ball. Yes, I'm tired of starting at Raditz, but why not start from the very begining?

If spike knows how to manage their time it would benifit them but, knowing them they'd probably waste the extra year just on cutscenes or graphics.

Since when has Spike been good with either cutscenes or graphics? Dimps usually takes more time on cutscenes and graphics than Spike does. Spikes uses his time mostly adding more characters, but not adding new cutscenes (unless you are counting new attacks which I don't see a problem with).

Its not even that, its the fact that Spike seems to pick characters out of a hat to add into the game instead of characters people actually want to see. I don't remember anyone wanting, Doore, or Neiz in the games, they were added, they suck and such slots wasted.

Yeah. I always thought it was a waste to have "new" characters that have nothing to them... Salza is cool, the rest of that armored squadron is useless. Aside from their ultimate move, their moveset is pretty sub-par compared to the rest of the roster. Same could be said about Tarble, Android 14 and 15, and the new SSJ3 characters from Raging Blast 2. All show and no substance.

Again, if those characters had nothing insteresting is because Spike wen really lazy on Raging Blast games, in my opinion Raging Blast 2 can be compared somehow with Tenkaichi 2. Great improvement, but it has some flaws. If you remember the Great Apes on Tenkaichi 2, they had all the same attacks, but the ones added on Tenkaichi 3 (Selipa and King Vegeta), were actually done better, specially Selipa which had a rush. They still used stock attacks, but they got a bit more creative like adding a one handed Galick Gun for King Vegeta.

We'll probably could have got great improvements in a third game... instead we got Ultimate Blast/Tenkaichi.

Characters can be very original if they want, usually they prefer going the easy way and add stock attacks (which I don't mind as long as they had enough original attacks by themselves).

[Zenkashuu]

I still believe that DBZ games has one of the worst fan bases.

[TheAldella]

I still believe that DBZ games has one of the worst fan bases.

I got robbed, yo. I'm bitter.

[EXBadguy]

I still believe that DBZ games has one of the worst fan bases.

You and me both. But I think it's second to the Naruto fanbase. THIS fanbase is just delusional because they don't know what they want, while the Naruto fanbase are full of crybabies and act like their developer(CC2) is the best, when their games are getting worse gameplay wise.

[Darknat]

I still believe that DBZ games has one of the worst fan bases.

You and me both. But I think it's second to the Naruto fanbase. THIS fanbase is just delusional because they don't know what they want, while the Naruto fanbase are full of crybabies and act like their developer(CC2) is the best, when their games are getting worse gameplay wise.

How does the fanbase don't know what they want? It's usually divided in 2 fronts, 2D gameplay or 3D gameplay for fighting game. Then there are some less people that want some other kind of games, but for the most part it's quite clear what the fanbase want.

[EXBadguy]

I still believe that DBZ games has one of the worst fan bases.

You and me both. But I think it's second to the Naruto fanbase. THIS fanbase is just delusional because they don't know what they want, while the Naruto fanbase are full of crybabies and act like their developer(CC2) is the best, when their games are getting worse gameplay wise.

How does the fanbase don't know what they want? It's usually divided in 2 fronts, 2D gameplay or 3D gameplay for fighting game. Then there are some less people that want some other kind of games, but for the most part it's quite clear what the fanbase want.

Hence why I'm saying it as a whole.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

And why get rid of them isntead of balancing them. Every character has a chance if they add to them new attacks. Selipa is a good example, she didn't even fight in the show, but she has plenty of original animations and moves. Even DB Heroes added a new cool move to her where she creates a energy ball and kicks it instead of just shooting it as everyone does. Bardock on Budokai had that nice attack where he punches and throws a ki blast that explodes. They can add nice moves to all characters if they just are a bit creative.

I don't mean that, I think we were lucky that Selipa was portayed with that much creativity, but shes more useful than most of the other weaklings because shes a Saiyan - and holds more importance to the roster being female which DBZ has hardly any of. However the rest of the added characters below her have no hope for them because they have no significance, they are generic filler-fodder. Theres not much you can do with someone intended to be lame like Appule.

About weak characters, the problem is that Spikes games are a bit different to fighting games and more closer to driving games. What I mean is that what makes characters different in Sparking Meteor for instance is not just the movesets but also their stats. some are really fast like Buu or Burtter and some have a lot of Life bars like Reekum. Some charge ki faster some don't, and so on. It's very possible to balance that, but then everyone will be exactly the same.

I honesly don't know why people demand that every character must play differently, these games barely function consistantly for casual play - the competitive scene will never come out of this series because the engine doesnt support it, it only really supports players trying to renact the DBZ feeling of combat as a simulator. That of anything BT3 nailed perfectly. I'd want a DBZ game to feature competitve tournament grade play but it will never happen unless Dimps a professional company were to actually take over. Spike's engines just don't work, its enough that now they're being heavily simplied for lazy people but the fact that they play so slow now its barely living up to being a proper simulator. They'll never balance anything in the games until they actually fix the engine itself first. I really hate characters fighting at different speeds because usually slow characters always always suck and anyone with one hand can perfect a match with Gogeta. These advantages/disadvantages don't compensate anything, they just break the game and why Dimps never does nonsense like that. However it only works for DBZ simulators because strong characters need to feel strong - to bad it makes the weak characters so obvious to points where they're often unusable. Try winning against anyone stronger than Krillin with Babidi or Videl. Impossible.

That's true, but take into consideration that internally in the game they are different characters. The have their own animations, their own moves, their own stats. True that we get several Goku's forms as characters, but the truth is that they are different characters.

I know they are technically, but they market them ambiguosly through that tounge-and-cheek little joke. They make fans think they're getting new characters but really they're just recounting the standards defaults too. Its a marketing technique.

Well, I do prefer a big defined roster than a lot of created characters without personality. Character creator won't take the time from a storymode, they would take the time from characters themselves. A story mode can just be programed and animated, a character creator needs also lots of modeling, so instead of getting more characters or costumes from characters, we'll get several pieces that in the end won't look good together or would be very limiting one way or another

I'd still rather that then them wasting time with a redundant storymode with medicore cutscenes and constant hiccups of inaccurate placement. RB1 made me sick of the storymode itself. Sure it will take more work to make a good creator but it atleast something new. The only reason UT/character creation was so bad was because it was so mindlessly constrictive. There literally was no creativity possible because they cheaped us out on it. As if everyone's ideal fan character must be a Goku or Gohan clone.

About the Story, personally I haven't yet played a good storymode of Dragon Ball that covers all of Dragon Ball. Yes, I'm tired of starting at Raditz, but why not start from the very begining?

TBH it would be way too long and DB's most significant fights happen at the end, the only real important fights are Goku vs the pre-Z fighters...problem is in Tenkaichi all the dragonball characters suck. They're often even weaker than Videl. I'd rather Dimps make a Burst Limit styled game based on Dragonball where you'd at least know it would work.

Since when has Spike been good with either cutscenes or graphics? Dimps usually takes more time on cutscenes and graphics than Spike does. Spikes uses this time mostly adding more characters, but not adding new cutscenes (unless you are counting new attacks which I don't see a problem with).

I think Spike mainly focuses on reanimating all the attack animations above all else, the rest of the game is just slapped on together. The Rush attacks are the only thing spike actually does well. Graphically Spike at least have the cleanest models where they're smooth and actually look like the anime characters unlike ArtDink's horrendous attempt. Though Spike never seems to get Goku's hair right... at least in RB.

I cant say Spike wastes time on frivilous aspects, I say its Namco never giving them enough time to do it.

Yeah. I always thought it was a waste to have "new" characters that have nothing to them... Salza is cool, the rest of that armored squadron is useless. Aside from their ultimate move, their moveset is pretty sub-par compared to the rest of the roster.

Tarble/14/15/Hachiyack were actually the only good additions. They had enough relevance to exist in the cast, 14/15 have been wanted in the games since BT2. They have unique special moves as well, and 14 is to his credit the only real black DBZ character in the game. Tarble's also canon and a Saiyan, I would have wanted him to also have an Oozaru form, alone with Gine. They have a lot of potential for what-if fights. Its The Salza Squad that was a useless add to me, Neiz sucks, pure and simple, he has one of the worst ultimates in the game. Doore is also unlikable for me. I could have lived without them because there is no real what-if relevance to them, theres only so many times I can put them up against the Ginyu force. Big deal.

I never liked SSJ3 Vegeta. His Ugly model was enough to make me vomit but his moveset is terribly redundant, all of which should have gone to Majin Vegeta. SSJ3 Broly looked stupid but had at least an ounce of originality in him but I'm glad they're gone. Terrible gimmick.

Again, if those characters had nothing insteresting is because Spike went really lazy on Raging Blast games, in my opinion Raging Blast 2 can be compared somehow with Tenkaichi 2. Great improvement, but it has some flaws. If you remember the Great Apes on Tenkaichi 2, they had all the same attacks, but the ones added on Tenkaichi 3 (Selipa and King Vegeta), were actually done better, specially Selipa which had a rush. They still used stock attacks, but they got a bit more creative like adding a one handed Galick Gun for King Vegeta.

Those characters would only be truly utilized as bosses, which BoZ at least did right there if anything. If these bosses were playable transformations and had their BT3 movesets it would be even better.

[Darknat]

Try winning against anyone stronger than Krillin with Babidi or Videl. Impossible.

It's quite possible. The engine provides enough defensive moves to be able to defeat any character. It's true you are at a disadvantage with those kind of characters, less health, no long range, slower... but that doesn't mean they can't be used, I personally don't like the overpowered characters like Gogeta SS4, and usually play with less powerful characters to have a challenge.

Graphically Spike at least have the cleanest models where they're smooth and actually look like the anime characters unlike ArtDink's horrendous attempt. Though Spike never seems to get Goku's hair right... at least in RB.

I don't want to defend Artdink... but even though Battle of Z was personally a really bad game both in gameplay and with graphics and animations, so was the first Sparking gmae, and in 2 years they developed Sparking Meteor which is one of the best DBZ games out there. I suppose they still deserve a second chance. Spike improved their engine, models and animations a great deal in their second game.

On the other hand, I don't like brawl games that much, I prefer one vs one games. The only exception so far is J Stars which is quite good, and frankly did almost everything BoZ did way better.

I never liked SSJ3 Vegeta. His Ugly model was enough to make me vomit but his moveset is terribly redundant, all of which should have gone to Majin Vegeta. SSJ3 Broly looked stupid but had at least an ounce of originality in him but I'm glad they're gone. Terrible gimmick.

I don't like What If characters that much, but my opinion of those 2 is that they should have added them as transformations to the other characters and they should have had original moves instad of getting moves that should be avaliable to their other transformations.

Those characters would only be truly utilized as bosses, which BoZ at least did right there if anything. If these bosses were playable transformations and had their BT3 movesets it would be even better.

As long as they maintain their true height instead of the one in Sparking and they get some speed I would love to see them back. Oh, and I hope they add some effect to their roars. They sounded incredibly stupid in Sparking .........

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

How does the fanbase don't know what they want? It's usually divided in 2 fronts, 2D gameplay or 3D gameplay for fighting game. Then there are some less people that want some other kind of games, but for the most part it's quite clear what the fanbase want.

We aren't anywhere in the majority, very few subgroups of the fanbase can specifically articulate our issues with the games and what solutions to what is gravely needed, a lot of the fanbase is filled with people who cant think prospectively at all, I've delt with a lot of people who don't know how to focus on what would better the games functionally, they only care about the current fads or aesthetics and nothing else. During the RB days when what-ifs were so popular to speculate on, I've gotten into arguments with people trying to tell me that SSJ4Vegitto was a higher priority need than actual gameplay that I cared more about. I regret even trying with them.
Then there are others that constantly demand enlongated ongoing cutscenes and overly elaborate storymodes purely for aesthetics. Nobody cares about gameplay thus gameplay is never the priority. Then there are others who will complain on and on about never getting anything "new" to the games; but the same people never specify what they call "new" thus when Spike makes up some vapid gimmick; and it never ends up to be anything we actually want - we're stuck with it.

I give my praise To Treevax for being the only real voice of the community that was actually able to provide logical suggestions for the games.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

It's quite possible. The engine provides enough defensive moves to be able to defeat any character. It's true you are at a disadvantage with those kind of characters, less health, no long range, slower... but that doesn't mean they can't be used, I personally don't like the overpowered characters like Gogeta SS4, and usually play with less powerful characters to have a challenge.

still seems like an unecessary handicap. I would never use Babidi in any serious matches because on max computer settings is just more tedious than fun: especially on the last stages of Mission 100. Even standard characters still have a difficult time with Omega Shenron, theres no way videl would survive a single combo.

I don't want to defend Artdink... but even though Battle of Z was personally a really bad game both in gameplay and with graphics and animations, so was the first Sparking gmae, and in 2 years they developed Sparking Meteor which is one of the best DBZ games out there. I suppose they still deserve a second chance. Spike improved their engine, models and animations a great deal in their second game.

I'm honestly tired of that cycle of skipping the first 2 games just to wait for the third game to be playable. Its terrible buisness practice. I give Spike the benifit of a pass because they actually have shown that they learn - they dont always make the best production choices but the jump from the unplayable BT1 to BT2 was lightyears apart even for an overhaul. I doubt Artdink is capable of that and I don't want to wait another 5 years just to find out. Now that Spike has at least mastered the playform they should be the ones on the projects, its a waste of my youth having to wade through 6 games just to find 2 decent ones. All games should be good when released and improve upon sequels, but not with Namco, they say start from scratch waste a few months and redo everything you already fucking done the last game just to kill time. Then our final products just end up being their shitty betas. Even when they establish something good, by the next game they just take it out.

On the other hand, I don't like brawl games that much, I prefer one vs one games. The only exception so far is J Stars which is quite good, and frankly did almost everything BoZ did way better.

I never liked them either, they're just way too chaotic, button mash-pandering and mindlessly simplistic as hinted by BOZ's very childish commercials.

As long as they maintain their true height instead of the one in Sparking and they get some speed I would love to see them back. Oh, and I hope they add some effect to their roars. They sounded incredibly stupid in Sparking ........

BoZ got boss battles right if anything. I really hated the "Reeww-Ouuraaahhhrrah" dub thing on the Oozarus in the Sparking games, why cant they have the animal roars from the anime? BoZ at least fixed all this, even giving them a cutscene upon transformation just like DBHeroes. Too bad spike cant model Ooozarus worth a dime. Heads too big-fur to prickly...mouth blast wrong colour...etc...and why the hell would they have Super Explosive waves?

[Darknat]

We aren't anywhere in the majority, very few subgroups of the fanbase can specifically articulate our issues with the games and what solutions to what is gravely needed, a lot of the fanbase is filled with people who cant think prospectively at all, I've delt with a lot of people who don't know how to focus on what would better the games functionally, they only care about the current fads or aesthetics and nothing else. During the RB days when what-ifs were so popular to speculate on, I've gotten into arguments with people trying to tell me that SSJ4Vegitto was a higher priority need than actual gameplay that I cared more about. I regret even trying with them.
Then there are others that constantly demand enlongated ongoing cutscenes and overly elaborate storymodes purely for aesthetics. Nobody cares about gameplay thus gameplay is never the priority. Then there are others who will complain on and on about never getting anything "new" to the games; but the same people never specify what they call "new" thus when Spike makes up some vapid gimmick; and it never ends up to be anything we actually want - we're stuck with it.

Well, I do want a good storymode, but I want good gameplay as well, or at least, good enough. That's why I always have defended the Sparking games, they do have good gameplay and a lot possibilities, but it's not polished. There is always the problem that everyone says that characters fight exactly the same. Thing is, there are easy ways to diferentiate them. I said this lots of times and I always use the same example. Just by doing the rushes as chains, that would work wonders for individualizing them.

If we use the Meteor Attack from Goku that is mostly an elbow, 6 kicks, punch, jump and kamehameha, we could translate that to: Triangle, Square x 6, Triangle, R1, L2+Triangle. And from that they could add delays and chargeable attacks like the gut punch. They could even make several chains by changing the number of kicks.
Raging Blast does something similar with some rushes, but the way it's done doesn't feel right for some reason and seems way too simplistic.

Adding that, a few added things from RB2, cancels, and ground combat they would have a great game.

Zenkai Battle Royale is probably the closest thing right now to this, but I don't really know how the chains work exactly.

I give my praise To Treevax for being the only real voice of the community that was actually able to provide logical suggestions for the games.

I agree his a voice for the community, but I disagree in several of his ideas. He's looking for a flashy game more than a good game. For instance I disagree with using the system of Ultimate Blast to deal with ultimates. Minigames and quick events can kill the flow of a game, specially if it's a fighting game.
Also I prefer using the ultimates freely instead of just once, as long as they have some kind of limit. I liked the blast stocks for ultimates in Sparking for instance (not so much for transformations or for Goku's Kaioken which I think were done better in RB).

still seems like an unecessary handicap. I would never use Babidi in any serious matches because on max computer settings is just more tedious than fun: especially on the last stages of Mission 100. Even standard characters still have a difficult time with Omega Shenron, theres no way videl would survive a single combo.

Well, I don't see it as so big a handicap, just more challenging. I could use Babidi or Videl against Red Potara characters without much problems as long as I'm just fighting against the computer at max difficulty. I probably won't stand a chance if the red potara was a good player.

I'm honestly tired of that cycle of skipping the first 2 games just to wait for the third game to be playable. Its terrible buisness practice. I give Spike the benifit of a pass because they actually have shown that they learn - they dont always make the best production choices but the jump from the unplayable BT1 to BT2 was lightyears apart even for an overhaul. I doubt Artdink is capable of that and I don't want to wait another 5 years just to find out. Now that Spike has at least mastered the playform they should be the ones on the projects, its a waste of my youth having to wade through 6 games just to find 2 decent ones. All games should be good when released and improve upon sequels, but not with Namco, they say start from scratch waste a few months and redo everything you already fucking done the last game just to kill time. Then our final products just end up being their shitty betas. Even when they establish something good, by the next game they just take it out.

They should treat the games as they do Soul Calibur and Tekken. If they improved instead of resetting the development every 2 or 3 games they could really do some great things. That's why I don't like Raging Blast. It was not much of an improvement really, it felt more like a few steps back. Raging Blast was nice, but it was based onf RB1 and felt a bit short in some areas compared to Tenkaichi 3.

[Ringworm128]

Because I'm not dropping 40bux on a game to play as Goku vs Vegeta again.

And ironically you end up doing that anyway since most of the characters are Goku and Vegeta but with different skins.

To have more options to play with

what's better : 10 charecters that are compleatley diffrent or 50 that are diffrent enough ?

I would say it's more like 5 characters that are different enough, Playing as Goku feels exactly the same as playing as Bardock, Yamcha or Tullece etc. Even Street Fighter's shoto clones feel more diverse.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

And ironically you end up doing that anyway since most of the characters are Goku and Vegeta but with different skins.

I'm playing BT3, and Freeza doesn't do the Kamehameha, Chaozu doesn't do the Kaio-ken, and Dr. Uiro doesn't have the same fighting style as Yamcha, nor the same voices, or dialog.