"Established Facts" that have changed: By Saga.

[funrush]

Saiyan Saga:

☻ Planet Vegeta was destroyed by a meteor... It is later revealed that Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta. (Contradiction)

Not a contradiction, that's an intended plot twist.

[Herms]

I'm pretty sure it never says that there is only one Super Saiyan per millennium. It does, however, say that the last one appeared a millennium ago. And even if it does, it's a thousand year old legend, not a fact. No contradiction.

Actually Vegeta does only say that "a Super Saiyan appears once every 1,000 years". The daizenshuu and other guides take that and logically assume that the last Super Saiyan appeared 1,000 years ago, but it's not something that's ever flat-out said in the series. But yeah, you can totally explain the "once every 1,000 years" thing by saying it's just a legend. Still, it is a case where we're first told one thing and then later the story gives us something else, so I think it does count. A bit. I guess it depends on how you define "established fact".

Saiyan Saga:

☻ Planet Vegeta was destroyed by a meteor... It is later revealed that Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta. (Contradiction)

Not a contradiction, that's an intended plot twist.

I don't know how intended it was. Aside from Kaio's line at the end about how killing Vegeta won't get rid of "the roots of evil", pretty much the whole Saiyan arc runs on the assumption that Vegeta and co. are their own bosses. So I think Toriyama probably meant for the meteor thing to be the real story at the time, then only later changed his mind. Certainly, if he had always intended the meteor thing to just be Freeza's cover story, then he probably should have told the anime staff this when he was designing Gregory and outlining the Saiyan/Tsufruian backstory for them...

[ABED]

It may have been stated, but the fact that we discover later that it's not true doesn't make it an error. I don't see the issue with Super Saiyans not being confined to one in a millennium.

While it's never stated why, a possible explanation as to why Trunks and Goten can turn SS much easier is that perhaps both were born after their fathers turned SS.

[DNA]

Muten Roshi claims he is immortal during the Goku Arc only to later say he isn't during the Daimao Arc.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

During the 23rd TB, Goku said that he could kill Piccolo, and Kami with him of course, and then later revive Kami with the Dragon Balls (and used the Super Kamehameha to kill Piccolo). A few chapters later, Goku says that if Kami dies, Shenlong dies as well. I guess Goku forgot that/Toriyama retconned it.

Do Toriyama's recent revelations count? If yes, we have these two:

In Boo arc, Kaioshin says that Bibidi created Boo. However, according to Toriyama, apparently Kaioshin was misinformed, and Boo was created naturally, with Bibidi learning the spell to awake him from his sleep & use him.
In Boo arc, Kaioshin says that in his time, there were 5 Kaioshin. However, according to Toriyama, it turns out that normally, there are only 3 Kaioshin. Seems like the current Kaioshin generation was an exception, with 2 more Kaioshin born accidentally?

[funrush]

Saiyan Saga:

☻ Planet Vegeta was destroyed by a meteor... It is later revealed that Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta. (Contradiction)

Not a contradiction, that's an intended plot twist.

I don't know how intended it was. Aside from Kaio's line at the end about how killing Vegeta won't get rid of "the roots of evil", pretty much the whole Saiyan arc runs on the assumption that Vegeta and co. are their own bosses. So I think Toriyama probably meant for the meteor thing to be the real story at the time, then only later changed his mind. Certainly, if he had always intended the meteor thing to just be Freeza's cover story, then he probably should have told the anime staff this when he was designing Gregory and outlining the Saiyan/Tsufruian backstory for them...

Good point, it does seem Toriyama wrote a lot of Dragon Ball on the seat of his pants. Forget what I said then.

[White Oni]

Wow, we've gotten some major feedback.

Great work guys.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

✪ Becoming a super saiyan is something achieved only through intense training and emotional stimulation... In the Buu Saga,it's revealed that nearly anyone can become an SSj, with minimal training and emotional stimulation, so long as that person has good saiyan genes. A fact that still stands as a current logical inconsistency, seeing as how Future trunks and Gohan attained their ssj status (Contradiction)

This isn't correct. One still needs intense training, rage, and tranquil heart to transform, but Goten & Trunks (both from future & present) are an exception because they belong in the tailless 2nd generation of Saiyan Halflings, according to Daizenshuu 4, so they are the only ones that can transform without training.

Also, Future Trunks transforming through training & his anger from Gohan's death is anime-only. In the manga, Trunks is shown to be a Super Saiyan before Gohan's death, and he was weaker than base Gohan, implying that he hasn't trained much yet. Present Trunks transforming without training proves that the same happened for Future Trunks as well, since they are the same person genetically.

[Mewzard]

This isn't correct. One still needs intense training, rage, and tranquil heart to transform, but Goten & Trunks (both from future & present) are an exception because they belong in the tailless 2nd generation of Saiyan Halflings, according to Daizenshuu 4, so they are the only ones that can transform without training.

Also, Future Trunks transforming through training & his anger from Gohan's death is anime-only. In the manga, Trunks is shown to be a Super Saiyan before Gohan's death, and he was weaker than base Gohan, implying that he hasn't trained much yet. Present Trunks transforming without training proves that the same happened for Future Trunks as well, since they are the same person genetically.

But it never states this in the manga about tailless Saiyans (at least, that I recall). Nothing about being "tailless 2nd generation Saiyan/Human hybrids" sounds like it should make them special easy Super Saiyans. Frankly, Toriyama was probably just done with the Giant Ape form and tail weakness and wanted them to turn SSJ quick, for a joke at Vegeta's expense.

And the meteor thing is a total retcon, I doubt Toriyama planned it.

I'm surprised the TC didn't mention Goku's origin change. He was certainly never established to be an alien until he was one day (followed shortly by Piccolo). Big ass retcon.

Like if Clark Kent was just some badass farm boy who became a superhero, then one day discovered he's not just some sort of human with powers, but an alien.

[ABED]

and tranquil heart to transform

Where was this said to be a necessary component?

I'm surprised the TC didn't mention Goku's origin change. He was certainly never established to be an alien until he was one day (followed shortly by Piccolo). Big ass retcon.

Like if Clark Kent was just some badass farm boy who became a superhero, then one day discovered he's not just some sort of human with powers, but an alien.

The way you write this makes it sound like you view it as a negative.

[Kamiccolo9]

and tranquil heart to transform

Where was this said to be a necessary component?

When Vegeta is telling everyone about how he became a Super Saiyan, when he shows up to fight 19.

[Mewzard]

The way you write this makes it sound like you view it as a negative.

Not particularly. I read American Superhero Comics, I am well used to retcons. I just figure it's worth acknowledging given the topic. It is quite a major, unplanned change in the backstory.

[ABED]

When Vegeta is telling everyone about how he became a Super Saiyan, when he shows up to fight 19.

Exactly, Vegeta said it... VEGETA! Unless Toriyama says so, I don't think we're supposed to take his word as gospel.

It is quite a major, unplanned change in the backstory.

Unplanned, yes, change, no. To that point, Goku doesn't have much in the way of backstory. At most we know he's the only person who has a tail and he was trained by his grandpa since he was very young.

By the way, there are versions of Clark's story where he doesn't know he's an alien until his teen years.

[RandomGuy96]

Exactly, Vegeta said it... VEGETA! Unless Toriyama says so, I don't think we're supposed to take his word as gospel.

Goku says the same thing, as do Freeza and the guidebooks.

Chapter: 319 (DBZ 125), P9.4-5, P10.4-7
Goku: “I’m a Saiyan who came from Earth to defeat you…A legendary warrior whose tranquil heart has been awakened through intense rage…Super Saiyan Son Goku!”
Freeza: “I…I knew it…It seems you really are a Super Saiyan…Fu-fuffuffuh…So your tranquil heart was awakened through intense rage, huh?...I see, so that’s why Vegeta could never become one, no matter how hard he tried…”

[Kamiccolo9]

When Vegeta is telling everyone about how he became a Super Saiyan, when he shows up to fight 19.

Exactly, Vegeta said it... VEGETA! Unless Toriyama says so, I don't think we're supposed to take his word as gospel.

It is quite a major, unplanned change in the backstory.

Unplanned, yes, change, no. To that point, Goku doesn't have much in the way of backstory. At most we know he's the only person who has a tail and he was trained by his grandpa since he was very young.

By the way, there are versions of Clark's story where he doesn't know he's an alien until his teen years.

Vegeta's not the one who said it, Krillin did. Vegeta just confirmed it.

[ABED]

Exactly, Vegeta said it... VEGETA! Unless Toriyama says so, I don't think we're supposed to take his word as gospel.

Goku says the same thing, as do Freeza and the guidebooks.

Chapter: 319 (DBZ 125), P9.4-5, P10.4-7
Goku: “I’m a Saiyan who came from Earth to defeat you…A legendary warrior whose tranquil heart has been awakened through intense rage…Super Saiyan Son Goku!”
Freeza: “I…I knew it…It seems you really are a Super Saiyan…Fu-fuffuffuh…So your tranquil heart was awakened through intense rage, huh?...I see, so that’s why Vegeta could never become one, no matter how hard he tried…”

That's better but there's still not a definitive answer, and I don't care about the guidebooks. You could interpret that as Goku saying he normally has a calm heart, but he got so mad that he transforms. It's true, he's normally very nice.

The more you think about it, that quote doesn't make sense. His tranquil heart has been awakened sounds like transforming made his heart tranquil.

Kuririn did say that, you're right, but he says, "I thought you needed..." It's conjecture. Vegeta also makes many big boasts like he's the strongest or he's pure evil.

[mAcChaos]

Most of these aren't contradictions. They're just the audience having incomplete information and only learning the truth of the matter later.

It's still neat to catalogue the twists and changes though.

[Vegard Aune]

Muten Roshi claims he is immortal during the Goku Arc only to later say he isn't during the Daimao Arc.

Not only that; the claim that he's immortal in the first Dragon Ball hunt isn't even made by him. Umigame points it out after Roshi tries to justify the whole "Pafu pafu"-thing with a remark that he's an old man not long for this world and so he should be allowed to have some fun before he dies... Yet before he goes off to fight Piccolo he does indeed claim that the whole thing about drinking the water of immortality was a lie and that there's no such thing....

Oh and while we're at it, I find it kinda odd how both Muten Roshi and the Crane Sage are apparently 300+ years old (that, or Muten Roshi was already in his 200s when Piccolo first attacked, I'll admit I don't remember exactly how long they said it had been since he first attacked)... Yet Tao Pai Pai, who looks to be middle-aged at worst, is the Crane Sage's brother... So did their parents just have two children literally centuries apart or something? I mean this doesn't necessarily count as a contradiction, but it's just a little oddity that occurred to me when actually thinking about Roshi's age and supposed immortality.

[UltimateHammerBro]

I think that's the consequence of Toriyama style of writing.

He first says that Master Roshi is immortal, which is fine.
Then he creates Tao Pai Pai, and he says that it's been fifty years since he started working as an assasin. That's also fine: it's not too much of a stretch if we think that he's 70ish and looks middle aged, having started killing when he was 20ish.
When he introduces Master Shen, he says that he's Roshi's old partner. It's fine if we think all that "both Turtle and Crane are symbols of long life" stuff. We don't know how old Roshi is either: they could both be in their 80s, with the difference that Roshi is immortal while Shen isn't.
We discover that Tao Pai Pai is Shen's brother. No problem with this: we can even consider a 10 year or less age difference.

Finally, when Roshi talks about Piccolo's rampage in the past, IIRC he says that it happened hundreds of years ago (I don't remember if he says it in the manga, but a lot of time must have happened if society has forgotten about him and rebuilt itself)... but we see young versions of both Roshi and Shen. I think that it is at this point that Tori forgets the fact that Shen and Tao seem to be normal humans (as normal as humans can be in DB, of course), since both of them have had to obtain immortality at some point, by unknown means.

Of course, everything is screwed up when Roshi says that he's not immortal. Then is he just long-lived? So long-lived that he happens to live for over 300 years? I can accept it considering that Baba may have made some tricks in the Otherworld to extend his brother's lifespan... but what about Shen and Tao? Did the same happen to them?

The whole thing is just a mess.

[ABED]

Well, it's the DB world, so maybe some humans can live longer.

Even if it's a continuity gaff, I would hardly call it a mess.