Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:40 am
Low Tone G wrote:I agree! But being that Toriyama did not incorporate Gogeta in the manga, I can say a potara fusion is more likely one in this case. And there were potara earrings to perform the fusion with no problem.
Gogeta never happened, but he was still a possibility in the manga. Whatever Goku had in his mind, Vegetto was definitely in there, otherwise, he would have said something like "Fusion wouldn't work, but let's try the Potara!". Instead, he said that merging with Vegeta in general would be useless... meaning that everything from Veku to SS3 Vegetto would be useless.
And yes, SS3 Vegetto never happened, but it can easily happen. Not to mention that if Goku could predict how strong SS Gotenks can be by knowing the power-up of Fusion & the full power of SS Goten & Trunks, then he definitely can predict the power of SS3 Vegetto by knowing the power-up of SS3 & the Potara. Saying that "SS3 Vegetto never happened, so he can't be included" sounds like a weak excuse to overate Vegetto...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Low Tone G
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by Low Tone G » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:01 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Low Tone G wrote:I agree! But being that Toriyama did not incorporate Gogeta in the manga, I can say a potara fusion is more likely one in this case. And there were potara earrings to perform the fusion with no problem.
Gogeta never happened, but he was still a possibility in the manga. Whatever Goku had in his mind, Vegetto was definitely in there, otherwise, he would have said something like "Fusion wouldn't work, but let's try the Potara!". Instead, he said that merging with Vegeta in general would be useless... meaning that everything from Veku to SS3 Vegetto would be useless.
And yes, SS3 Vegetto never happened, but it can easily happen. Not to mention that if Goku could predict how strong SS Gotenks can be by knowing the power-up of Fusion & the full power of SS Goten & Trunks, then he definitely can predict the power of SS3 Vegetto by knowing the power-up of SS3 & the Potara. Saying that "SS3 Vegetto never happened, so he can't be included" sounds like a weak excuse to overate Vegetto...
Yes, it really sounds like that. It's Toriyama's story, so he can decide whether he makes thing out-dated or not, and fusion(in general speaking) was stated to be not enough now.
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
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Saitou Hajime
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by Saitou Hajime » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:52 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Goku just said the generic "merge", which means that he could mean both Fusion & Potara.
What's the actual Japanese word that Goku used for "merge"?
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Rocketman
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by Rocketman » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:44 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Saying that "SS3 Vegetto never happened, so he can't be included" sounds like a weak excuse to overate Vegetto...
Gotenks had to train to unlock SS3, Vegetto would too.
I mean, if you count training, then Vegetto
would be useful because he'd start higher than anybody and then could train up to fight Billy.
"Super Vegetto can't defeat Billy" is reasonable. "No possible permeation of Vegetto could even attempt to fight Billy" is not.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:44 pm
Rocketman wrote:Gotenks had to train to unlock SS3, Vegetto would too.
Gotenks also had to train to unlock Super Saiyan on his own, yet Vegetto could do it after existing for a few seconds.
Gotenks also managed to unlock SS3 after a week (right?), and that's with Goten & Trunks not even having Super Saiyan 2. Vegetto is far more powerful, skilled, and experience than Gotenks, and since he has the knowledge of how to go SS3 thanks to Goku in him, I'm sure he can do it on-spot.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Low Tone G
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by Low Tone G » Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:33 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Rocketman wrote:Gotenks had to train to unlock SS3, Vegetto would too.
Gotenks also had to train to unlock Super Saiyan on his own, yet Vegetto could do it after existing for a few seconds.
Gotenks also managed to unlock SS3 after a week (right?), and that's with Goten & Trunks not even having Super Saiyan 2. Vegetto is far more powerful, skilled, and experience than Gotenks, and since he has the knowledge of how to go SS3 thanks to Goku in him, I'm sure he can do it on-spot.
I have to agree. On the top of that Vegetto seemed to be far more skilled than Goku and Vegeta on their own too. I think to go SSJ3 would have been a piece of cake for him, maybe even easier than in the case of Goku as his fused body it's more durable than a normal body.
English is not my first language!
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90sDBZ
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by 90sDBZ » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:50 pm
Interestingly the English dub has Goku say "If I did fusion with Vegeta again", implying that they'd done it before which would have to mean Vegito, as BoG takes place in the main canon story. The Japanese version leaves it pretty ambiguous.
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Saiga
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by Saiga » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:27 pm
Rocketman wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Saying that "SS3 Vegetto never happened, so he can't be included" sounds like a weak excuse to overate Vegetto...
Gotenks had to train to unlock SS3, Vegetto would too.
I mean, if you count training, then Vegetto
would be useful because he'd start higher than anybody and then could train up to fight Billy.
"Super Vegetto can't defeat Billy" is reasonable. "No possible permeation of Vegetto could even attempt to fight Billy" is not.
There's absolutely no reason to think this. Vegetto didn't need to train for Super Saiyan, he just seemed to get that from his fusees. So logically he'd get Super Saiyan 3 as well, unless both halves needed to have it, of which there is absolutely no evidence towards.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on
my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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Angelus
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by Angelus » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:20 pm
Herms wrote:Elder Kaioshin himself later tells Goku and Vegeta to use another pair of Potara to become Vegetto again so they can beat Pure Boo.
I forgot to ask this a couple of months back but... where did Old Kai say this?
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Herms
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by Herms » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:31 am
Angelus wrote:Herms wrote:Elder Kaioshin himself later tells Goku and Vegeta to use another pair of Potara to become Vegetto again so they can beat Pure Boo.
I forgot to ask this a couple of months back but... where did Old Kai say this?
Right before the final battle. He has Kibito-Kaioshin lend his Potara to Goku and Vegeta, but Goku refuses to use them since it's not their style. "Spoken like a true Saiyan", and all that.
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Angelus
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by Angelus » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:00 am
Oh man.. this has plenty of implications then. So Old Kai knew that SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta wouldn't be able to beat Kid Buu?
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Super Saiyan Turlast x4
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by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:05 am
Not necessarily. He just knew Vegito would be a far better option than fighting separately. Something Goku realized a bit later.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
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miguelnuva1
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by miguelnuva1 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:49 pm
Goku's statement would have been different if he wasn't talking about Potara.
There is a huge gap between SSJ3 Vegito and SSJ3 Gogeta if Goku meant fusion wouldn't have been enough then he should have mentioned if only he had potara.
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Darkprince410
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by Darkprince410 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:58 pm
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Not necessarily. He just knew Vegito would be a far better option than fighting separately. Something Goku realized a bit later.
That and Vegetto would be able to take him out with far less risk of Kaioushin-kai being significantly damaged.
