Funimation should make its own soundtrack for Kai

[NitroEX]

The score of the first Pokémon movie may have had a good replacement score, but, that script may be the worst Pokémon related script ever done for a dub of it. It misses the point of the original script.

I was specifically talking about music, not dialogue or voices. I do agree though that the script changes are questionable in that dub but it's still an enjoyable film regardless. I think they omitted mentions of God because American parents at the time had the franchise under scrutiny for supporting evolution or poisoning kids minds or whatever. 4Kids probably didn't want to stir the pot any more by throwing God into the mix. Now that Pokemon isn't as mainstream I imagine they could get away with a more faithful dub but at the time they probably couldn't.

[El Diabeetus]

The score of the first Pokémon movie may have had a good replacement score, but, that script may be the worst Pokémon related script ever done for a dub of it. It misses the point of the original script.

I was specifically talking about music, not dialogue or voices. I do agree though that the script changes are questionable in that dub but it's still an enjoyable film regardless. I think they omitted mentions of God because American parents at the time had the franchise under scrutiny for supporting evolution or poisoning kids minds or whatever. 4Kids probably didn't want to stir the pot any more by throwing God into the mix. Now that Pokemon isn't as mainstream I imagine they could get away with a more faithful dub but at the time they probably couldn't.

True, just unfortunate that an otherwise solid movie is brought down from it. Don't get me wrong, it's still enjoyable. But, leaves a lot to be desired now.

[Tatakae!!Ramenman]

I would really like a replacement score for Kai. I like Kikuchi's Z score better than Yamamoto's Kai score, but I don't feel like Kikuchi's music fits as well in Kai. Z was a much slower show than Kai, and I don't think the music works as well in a faster pacing. But, even if Funimation sees that the soundtrack is a mess AND if they wanted to change it, it's cheaper to just leave it as is, so they probably wouldn't. I also like seeing replacement musical scores because it can give the series a completely different feel without actually changing any of the story.

[MagicBox]

I'm not really understanding the argument against this. The original intended score is already GONE. The soundtrack that's currently a part of Kai is already a replacement score. The Kikuchi score was not meant to be part of Kai, the Yamamato score was. Funimation would simply be replacing a replacement score with a better, more fitting replacement score.

Replacing the music because "oh crap, our original composer was a thief and now we might get sued" is very different from "hey, we don't really like this, so let's scrap it!"

I'm surprised opinions are so divided on this subject. I would have bet money that everyone would have unanimously said "No, that sounds like a horrible idea." And I'm confused as to where all of this sudden faith in FUNimation's composers is coming from. What exactly are we basing this on? Nathan Johnson and Mark Menza's work on the movies? Menza's work on GT? Scores that don't resonate with even the most unabashedly hardcore dub fans? Because those are the only applicable examples of what we'd be getting. The Faulconer crew wouldn't be patching things up and returning for this.

Slightly quicker pacing has zero affect on Kikuchi's score. His action music moves as fast as anything Yamamoto ever did. I think the only reason this gets tossed around as often as it does is because people are (rightfully) annoyed that only a fraction of Kikuchi's music was used for the replacement score and fans simply can't think of another way to word their frustrations. For the record, I enjoy Kikuchi-Kai for what it is. Heck, they even copy the music placement from the original "Z" scenes sometimes, so the placement's not all bad. But even if I didn't like it, I'd still be opposed to letting FUNimation (or Toei, or anyone) re-score the show again.

[Tatakae!!Ramenman]

Mark Menza was bad for GT, but I thought his music for the movies was pretty good. He also had a lot of silent moments in movie 6, which was pretty good since most of the dub music was playing nonstop all the time.

[ChibiGoku]

I'm sorry, but have you heard the music produced in a 4Kids dub? Most of the soundtracks they use sound the same (in fact, they reuse music between shows), they drone and go on, there's never a moment of silence, and quite honestly: It makes their dubs unwatchable at times. While I do note their butchering of the material doesn't help, the music can entirely break or make a show. More often than not, 4Kids music in shows break it for me. Most dub music does this to me, for that matter.

I haven't really seen any proof of this in the research I've done, but you also say the music mostly sounds similar to begin with. I'm curious to see at least one example that proves this.

Honestly, I'd have to do some digging, since almost all of 4Kids soundtracks were never made available through distribution. I do remember there were times the One Piece and Sonic X dub music would reuse tracks (or use almost identical sounding ones), specifically the "Dun dun, dun dun duuun dun", track. Sonic X used it whenever Sonic would show up, but I heard it a couple times used for "triumphing" moments for Luffy. There was also an instance where Winx Club used a rather old piece of Pokemon dub music, within the first scene of the episode, when Bloom is arousing from her bed. I think I also remember hearing Eggman's dub theme in TMNT03 (or might be the other way around, actually, not sure what came first for music), or at least something similar to it.

Yu-Gi-Oh!'s soundtrack for the dub isn't awful (I'd honestly rather have the original), as it has some decent sounding tracks, but there are times when it does sound like the "usual" for 4Kids. Pokemon's similar in this, though earlier on, was less so, due to the practice was mostly to just fill in music. Later on, the replacements got worse and the music got rather repetitive. Among that, there's very little variation in the 4Kids dub music, where they tend to use most of the same instruments and don't try to vary. Sometimes they do, and those don't sound that bad, but I don't think it's entirely the norm.

I think another problem, which you pointed out, is the "Mickey Mousing" the music, which makes the already (in my opinion) bland music even worse. Every single movement, action, or scene doesn't need music blaring 24/7. Heck, I'm seeing Cartoons made in the United States not do this as much anymore and that doesn't seem to impact viewership. They actually have moments of silence and don't put music to every movement or action the character does.

Apologizes for getting off topic, but I wanted to respond to this to my best ability.

[ABED]

But I do agree that the Kikuchi replacement in Kai is god awful and this is coming from someone who loves the original. The falcouner score with all it's flaws is vastly better then the Kikuchi replacement score in Kai, to be honest the boring repetiveness and same themes played over and over again alomost makes Kai unwatchable. I wish Yamamoto had never been found out.

Disagree about Falconer's score. It's terrible, and even though I don't agree that the placement is bad, the Kikuchi score in the latter part of Kai is far better. Regarding it's repetitiveness, I'm begging someone who claims this to actually count the number of times the same pieces are used and compare it to DBZ because DBZ's score is also repetitive. Finally, maybe we're just different people but I think those that claim the repetitiveness and placement of the score makes it unlistenable are blowing things WAY out of proportion.

[Kaboom]

The answer is a resounding, "No, FUNimation should NOT make their own BGM for Dragon Ball Kai," or for any other show they dub for that matter, because it's a distasteful and outdated dubbing practice that deserves to die and stay dead forever.

FUNimation has finally learned how to treat their properties, Dragon Ball especially, with a modicum of respect by NOT mangling its dialogue and music in some misguided attempt to appeal to a "unique" audience. Regardless of how sloppy Kai's music situation may be due to the Yamamoto plagarism scandal, it still is what it is. It's not FUNimation's place to try to "fix" things, and doing so would be a HUGE step backwards for them.

It also doesn't matter how many fans of the old DBZ dub would like to hear something resembling Faulcouner or Levy's or whoever's score again in a new dub, because FUNimation would be wrong to butcher their products again to cater to fans of something that should never have existed in the first place. If replacement-BGM fans refuse to be weaned off of that dreck and simply must have their fix, then they have the "broadcast" dub tracks on the orange bricks and bluray seasons, for a complete "crappy old dub" package. There's no need whatsoever to pollute the "second chance" FUNimation still has in Kai with past mistakes.

[Kakacarrottop]

The answer is a resounding, "No, FUNimation should NOT make their own BGM for Dragon Ball Kai," or for any other show they dub for that matter, because it's a distasteful and outdated dubbing practice that deserves to die and stay dead forever.

FUNimation has finally learned how to treat their properties, Dragon Ball especially, with a modicum of respect by NOT mangling its dialogue and music in some misguided attempt to appeal to a "unique" audience. Regardless of how sloppy Kai's music situation may be due to the Yamamoto plagarism scandal, it still is what it is. It's not FUNimation's place to try to "fix" things, and doing so would be a HUGE step backwards for them.

It also doesn't matter how many fans of the old DBZ dub would like to hear something resembling Faulcouner or Levy's or whoever's score again in a new dub, because FUNimation would be wrong to butcher their products again to cater to fans of something that should never have existed in the first place. If replacement-BGM fans refuse to be weaned off of that dreck and simply must have their fix, then they have the "broadcast" dub tracks on the orange bricks, Dragon Boxes, and bluray seasons, for a complete "crappy old dub" package. There's no need whatsoever to pollute the "second chance" FUNimation still has in Kai with past mistakes.

This is just your personal opinion, most American/Western people prefer replacement scores.

[KentalSSJ6]

Logic

This is just your personal opinion, most American/Western people prefer replacement scores.

Doesn't mean they should or will get it.

EDIT - Well look at that, just hit 5000.

[Ajay]

This is just your personal opinion, most American/Western people prefer replacement scores.

Gonna need a source on that wild claim.

[Kakacarrottop]

This is just your personal opinion, most American/Western people prefer replacement scores.

Gonna need a source on that wild claim.

Umm just visit any 'mainstream' site that discusses the series. You'll find a resounding consensus.

[TheBlackPaladin]

This is just your personal opinion, most American/Western people prefer replacement scores.

I could see this perhaps being the case with specific regard to American/Western audiences for Dragon Ball Z. I've long been of the belief that the Japanese version is the most popular version if you take into account the global fanbase, but that in any given geographic region, the local dub will be the most popular. Since most American/Western audiences were exposed to the replacement scores when DBZ was in its heyday, I could perhaps see that as being true.

With every other anime, though? Other than perhaps Cybercity Oedo 808, I've seen nothing but vehement rage expressed online when a dubbing company changes the score. 4Kids in particular was famous for both changing the scores of the shows they dubbed and receiving seemingly relentless backlash online for it.

[KentalSSJ6]

This is just your personal opinion, most American/Western people prefer replacement scores.

Gonna need a source on that wild claim.

Umm just visit any 'mainstream' site that discusses the series. You'll find a resounding consensus.

Youtube and Facebook don't count.

[MagicBox]

This is just your personal opinion, most American/Western people prefer replacement scores. Umm just visit any 'mainstream' site that discusses the series. You'll find a resounding consensus.

Your average "mainstream" person owns the DBZ season sets. Your average "mainstream" person just throws a DVD in their player and presses "play." The Japanese music track plays on those DVDs by default. I have a feeling the "mainstream" are far more familiar with the original music than you think.

The passionate Faulconer Productions fans who constantly praise that music on YouTube aren't your "mainstream" crowd. And I rarely see people on any kind of message board do anything but complain when they find out that a dubbing company has replaced a show's music score.

[Kakacarrottop]

This is just your personal opinion, most American/Western people prefer replacement scores. Umm just visit any 'mainstream' site that discusses the series. You'll find a resounding consensus.

Your average "mainstream" person owns the DBZ season sets. Your average "mainstream" person just throws a DVD in their player and presses "play." The Japanese music track plays on those DVDs by default. I have a feeling the "mainstream" are far more familiar with the original music than you think.

The passionate Faulconer Productions fans who constantly praise that music on YouTube aren't your "mainstream" crowd. And I rarely see people on any kind of message board do anything but complain when they find out that a dubbing company has replaced a show's music score.

I'm pretty sure they are. They are very casual fans who grew up watching Dragon Ball Z with their music on Toonami (which pretty much explains why it's so incredibly overrated, even among JP score fans).

[Kid Buu]

Dragon Ball Kai is beyond help. No soundtrack could possibly save it. It's no excuse to bring back an archaic practice that we've tried so hard to get away from.

And for what it's worth, watching Japanese Dragon Ball with Kikuchi's music in stereo has a lot of good points. I'm glad the Kikuchi music is on there.

Yeah, pretty much this. Kai has too many issues at this point for FUNimation to even try to save it by giving a new score, which could just make it even worse.

[VegettoEX]

I'm pretty sure they are. They are very casual fans who grew up watching Dragon Ball Z with their music on Toonami (which pretty much explains why it's so incredibly overrated, even among JP score fans).

The very fact that they know who the composer is, that it's a replacement score, have made vehemently-disparaging crusades against what it replaces, and go on to make a public fuss about it enough to grab your attention shows that they are far from the mainstream casual crowd.

[EXBadguy]

So all of the replacement scores are a problem, but when Toei uses Kikuchi's crap, they're gods now? Kikuchi's score sounds MORE outta place in Kai than it was in the original Z and many of the replacements half of yall here love to bash.

As for the topic itself, I'd honestly say yes and no. While I do wish Funimation finds somebody or, better yet, rehire Falconer to make better music(face it, even he has orchestral pieces),but on the other hand, you'd have to think of the money issues and how late it is, and that's where I'm kinda mixed on the whole thing. Though, again, I wish Funimation has the balls to replace the dumb Kikuchi replacement or Toei being rich and look for another composer for the International version.

[Kakacarrottop]

I'm pretty sure they are. They are very casual fans who grew up watching Dragon Ball Z with their music on Toonami (which pretty much explains why it's so incredibly overrated, even among JP score fans).

The very fact that they know who the composer is, that it's a replacement score, have made vehemently-disparaging crusades against what it replaces, and go on to make a public fuss about it enough to grab your attention shows that they are far from the mainstream casual crowd.

I prefer the term "Moral entrepreneur"