Funimation should make its own soundtrack for Kai

[TVfan721]

VegettoEX, I understand if you decide to move this into the Kai Section. The reason I put this here is because it ties in really well with the huge debate of "Funimation replacing original music" that's been going on for almost 20 years, plus this section gets a lot more activity. Obviously, it's 100% your call though!

Once the Buu Saga is translated into English and released and Funimation goes back and releases the entire Kai series again from start to finish (and you know they will) I actually hope that they make their own soundtrack for the entire series and replace the Japanese music. The whole situation with the Kai soundtrack is a fucking mess. Everything from the beginning to the Cell Saga has hacked up Kikuchi music with poor placement, same songs repeated over and over, and just a dated feel overall. The Buu Saga obviously has a new soundtrack which has been decent overall but now there's a huge inconsistency between that saga and everything else in terms of the music.

I hope Funimation makes it's own soundtrack from scratch for the entire series from start to finish. With the knowledge and experience they have now and with Chris Sabat at the helm, I think Funimation could make a soundtrack that would blow the Japanese soundtrack out of the water. It would also be nice to have a consistent soundtrack for the whole series. By all means, they can also keep the Kikuchi and Japanese Buu music on the DVDs as an alternate soundtrack.

[Valerius Dover]

Well, first of all, replacing soundtracks is out of the question for Funimation nowadays. As far as I know, they haven't done so since DBZ Movies 2 and 3 were released back in 2006. Second, consistency didn't bother Funimation themselves in the transition from Episode 67 to 68, switching from Johnson to Faulconer. Third, The Final Chapters is marketed as a sequel series (starting from 1 and not 99) so new music shouldn't feel any stranger than the Z to GT transition. There simply exists no reason to go back and change stuff and complicate things even more.

That being said, I do wish the music in Kai was more fresh to differentiate it from Z more. But going back and releasing the first Kai for the third time would be pointless.

[SSJ YUSUKE]

I don't think Funimation would make their own score, why would they bother?
But I do agree that the Kikuchi replacement in Kai is god awful and this is coming from someone who loves the original. The falcouner score with all it's flaws is vastly better then the Kikuchi replacement score in Kai, to be honest the boring repetiveness and same themes played over and over again alomost makes Kai unwatchable. I wish Yamamoto had never been found out.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I understand where the original poster is coming from but, personally, I believe a dubbing company should keep the original score when they make a dub, regardless of how good or bad it is. The one (sort of) exception to this is that I'm totally OK with Japanese OP, ED, and insert songs being dubbed into English, but one could argue that that's more so dubbing the music and not so much "changing" it.

The idea behind a dub is to create an English version of the original Japanese viewing experience, not to create a new version entirely. Thankfully, FUNimation now clearly believes the same thing.

[MagicBox]

Dragon Ball Kai is beyond help. No soundtrack could possibly save it. It's no excuse to bring back an archaic practice that we've tried so hard to get away from.

And for what it's worth, watching Japanese Dragon Ball with Kikuchi's music in stereo has a lot of good points. I'm glad the Kikuchi music is on there.

[Kakacarrottop]

The idea behind a dub is to create an English version of the original Japanese viewing experience, not to create a new version entirely. Thankfully, FUNimation now clearly believes the same thing.

When i watch a dub i wanna watch a new version. If i want to watch the original version then i'll just watch the Japanese version. No one really wants to watch English speaking American actors trying to imitate Japanese actors. The great thing about this franchise to me is there are so many contrasting dubs, it's literally like there are different shows within a show. I mean the Saban dub, the Kai dub, the Big Green dub, the Malaysian dub, they all feel entirely different.

[TheBlackPaladin]

The idea behind a dub is to create an English version of the original Japanese viewing experience, not to create a new version entirely. Thankfully, FUNimation now clearly believes the same thing.

When i watch a dub i wanna watch a new version. If i want to watch the original version then i'll just watch the Japanese version. No one really wants to watch English speaking American actors trying to imitate Japanese actors. The great thing about this franchise to me is there are so many contrasting dubs, it's literally like there are different shows within a show. I mean the Saban dub, the Kai dub, the Big Green dub, the Malaysian dub, they all feel entirely different.

Well, that's certainly a valid opinion to have, but the vast majority of anime fans nowadays want an English version of the original Japanese version when they watch a dub. The internet has made it all to easy to find out what dubbing companies are changing, and much easier for them to be called out by fans when they don't adapt something faithfully. I'm willing to bet that if FUNimation had only gotten DBZ recently (in 2014/2015), and dubbed it the way they did back in the late 90's...you'd see an online reaction more akin to how people called out 4Kids for their handling of One Piece. In other words, very, very angry, and far more widespread.

And for what it's worth, I'm a voice actor myself (not involved with FUNimation or DBZ), and not too long ago I went to a casting director workshop with someone from a very prominent, LA-based dubbing company. In that workshop, this casting director was asked how important it was to sound like the original Japanese voice of the character they're auditioning for, and their response was: "It's a big factor. It's OK if it's not exactly the same, but we really try to look for as close a voice match as we can, because that's what the fans want to see. I try to tell auditioning actors to watch the original Japanese version of the shows they're auditioning for on Hulu if they can, so they can get a feel for the original performance."

Now, having said all that, as a spectator--if not necessarily as a fan--I totally agree with your assessment about all the different dubs. The history of English dubs of the Dragon Ball animes could be a book in and of itself. Lord knows we've all gotten a lot of entertainment value out of the Big Green dub and the Malaysian dub!

[dbboxkaifan]

I wouldn't mind if the Faulconer score was used for Kai 2.0 because if the music placement is done properly then it could be a lot better than what's his name (I really can't remember the composer's name of Kai 2.0 since it's so forgettable and bland). While the music is an important aspect of Kai 2.0 the picture quality is even more, as it stands all releases have the unfortunate green tint and also, comparing the International x Japanese, the Japanese version has some cool new revisions like Super Boo's red eyes.

Japanese


International


Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 40#p850490

But nope, it's not gonna happen. It's the music that Toei provides and that's it.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Should the vapordub ever appear, you'll get your wish.

[Fionordequester]

You know, on the topic of the soundtracks...would it really be so bad to have an alternate score for the T.V. version so long as the original soundtrack is included in the DVD's (like it is with the Orange Bricks)? And maybe add something like "Thanks to Kikuchi for the Original Score. Thanks to Scott Morgan (or whoever) for the 'T.V. Score'" in big bold letters on the credits? That way even casual viewers will know that the soundtrack was changed?

Basically, as long as the company is upfront about it, I'm not sure there's anything wrong with a soundtrack change. I mean, people bring up 4Kids, but their main sin was not that they changed the soundtrack. Their problem was that they would completely butcher their shows by throwing out large chunks of the script for numerous silly reasons, and then replacing it with really bad dialogue (not unlike what we got with Season 3 of the old dub in fact). And of course, the insane amount of censorship didn't help either.

[ChibiGoku]

Basically, as long as the company is upfront about it, I'm not sure there's anything wrong with a soundtrack change. I mean, people bring up 4Kids, but their main sin was not that they changed the soundtrack. Their problem was that they would completely butcher their shows by throwing out large chunks of the script for numerous silly reasons, and then replacing it with really bad dialogue (not unlike what we got with Season 3 of the old dub in fact). And of course, the insane amount of censorship didn't help either.

I'm sorry, but have you heard the music produced in a 4Kids dub? Most of the soundtracks they use sound the same (in fact, they reuse music between shows), they drone and go on, there's never a moment of silence, and quite honestly: It makes their dubs unwatchable at times. While I do note their butchering of the material doesn't help, the music can entirely break or make a show. More often than not, 4Kids music in shows break it for me. Most dub music does this to me, for that matter.

[Puto]

I'd actually be able to stand the Digimon Xros Wars/Fusion dub if they'd kept the original music. That's how much it makes or breaks a dub for me sometimes.

[Valerius Dover]

I'm sorry, but have you heard the music produced in a 4Kids dub? Most of the soundtracks they use sound the same (in fact, they reuse music between shows), they drone and go on, there's never a moment of silence, and quite honestly: It makes their dubs unwatchable at times. While I do note their butchering of the material doesn't help, the music can entirely break or make a show. More often than not, 4Kids music in shows break it for me. Most dub music does this to me, for that matter.

I haven't really seen any proof of this in the research I've done, but you also say the music mostly sounds similar to begin with. I'm curious to see at least one example that proves this.

Anyway, I find that the music itself isn't usually the issue, it's the way it's placed and how it's obsessively "Mickey Mousing" all the time. Yeah, that worked great back in the 30s when music told the story, but not as necessary anymore, especially not for a series where it wasn't intended. Team Faulconer and Nathan Johnson did a little bit of this, but not nearly to the same extent.

[TVfan721]

I'm not really understanding the argument against this. If the original score was still a part of Kai, then obviously there's no way Funi should make a replacement score but that's the thing, this is a VERY unique situation.

The original intended score is already GONE. The soundtrack that's currently a part of Kai is already a replacement score. The Kikuchi score was not meant to be part of Kai, the Yamamato score was. Funimation would simply be replacing a replacement score with a better, more fitting replacement score. Kikuchi's score doesn't fit with Kai at all, it's extremely limited because Toei can't even use a large portion of the Kikuchi score so they're simply using what they can and it's very repetitive, not to mention very dated. Funimation wouldn't be "going back to their old ways" because they're not replacing the original score. Toei has already done that themselves.

Well, first of all, replacing soundtracks is out of the question for Funimation nowadays. As far as I know, they haven't done so since DBZ Movies 2 and 3 were released back in 2006. Second, consistency didn't bother Funimation themselves in the transition from Episode 67 to 68, switching from Johnson to Faulconer. Third, The Final Chapters is marketed as a sequel series (starting from 1 and not 99) so new music shouldn't feel any stranger than the Z to GT transition. There simply exists no reason to go back and change stuff and complicate things even more.

Regarding the Buu Saga being seen as a sequel to the first 99 episodes and not part of the same series, well that's cool then. I'm perfectly fine with them leaving the original soundtrack for the Buu Saga if that's the case but the first 99 episodes are in desperate need of a musical change.

As for the DVD's and transition from 67 to 88, almost completely irrelevant. The main intention of the orange bricks was to see DBZ for the first time in it's original form. The original Japanese soundtrack was the selling point and it's treated as the MAIN soundtrack on the DVD's. The english soundtracks were an afterthought. Same thing applies to the Blu Rays. Besides, Funi had no choice but to be inconsistent with the english soundtracks. Due to Faulconer's behaviour, there was obviously no way that could have him to do the re-dub and they probably would've if it wasn't for how he acted.

[Theophrastus]

I think the most one could realistically hope for (and I'm probably stretching the use of the term "realistically"), would be for Funimation to license Sumitomo's score (the one currently being used in Kai Buu Saga/BoG) for use in Saiyan-to-Cell Kai (however that might work). Even then, there'd be the issue of "well, what tracks should go where" and so on, so that could be a wasted effort if poor choices were made.

[jjgp1112]

I agree with the notion of maybe changing OG Kai's score because as was recently said, the current score at Funi's disposal isn't even the original score in the first place - it's a sloppily done replacement score. It wouldn't happen in a million years because of the issues between the two, but it would've been neat if Funi busted out the Faulconer score for the rereleases.

[El Diabeetus]

I agree with the notion of maybe changing OG Kai's score because as was recently said, the current score at Funi's disposal isn't even the original score in the first place - it's a sloppily done replacement score. It wouldn't happen in a million years because of the issues between the two, but it would've been neat if Funi busted out the Faulconer score for the rereleases.

Even though I'm not big on official replacement scores, it'd be a brilliant move on FUNimation's part and would probably get some of the people vehemently bashing Kai for not having that music to cross over into being Kai fans. Plus, the whole music situation for Kai is iffy already. Why not create a consistent score?

[TVfan721]

I agree with the notion of maybe changing OG Kai's score because as was recently said, the current score at Funi's disposal isn't even the original score in the first place - it's a sloppily done replacement score. It wouldn't happen in a million years because of the issues between the two, but it would've been neat if Funi busted out the Faulconer score for the rereleases.

As I've said a few times in this thread, I want a new score for Kai by Funi but I'd be against the Falcouner score being re-used. That would be no different than using the Kikuchi score for Kai in that it would be using a score that was never intended for Kai.

[NitroEX]

Unless the original creator(s) object to the idea of a replacement score (like with the Miyazaki Ghibli dubs) I don't have much of an issue with a dub using their own music if they feel they need to. Yes there have been bad ones in the past but there's also been some amazing dub music too like the score for the first Pokemon film which had high production values and made the film even more more cinematic IMO. In my time I've also watched a lot of anime that had terrible music to begin with (or barely any music at all) and some shows left me wishing I had a replacement score to turn to so the originals aren't always perfect in that case.

With DVD and Blu Rays it's possible to have both tracks on there anyway which would only give more incentive to buy the home release to mix and match music tracks.

If they're willing to put a decent amount of money into it and hire talented artists then go for it. I love hearing different interpretations.

[El Diabeetus]

Unless the original creator(s) object to the idea of a replacement score (like with the Miyazaki Ghibli films) I don't have much of an issue with a dub using their own music if they feel they need to. Yes there have been bad ones in the past but there's also been some amazing dub music too like the score for the first Pokemon film which had high production values and made the film even more more cinematic IMO. In my time I've also watched a lot of anime that had terrible music to begin with (or barely any music at all) and some shows left me wishing I had a replacement score to turn to so the originals aren't always perfect in that case.

With DVD and Blu Rays it's possible to have both tracks on there anyway which would only give more incentive to buy the home release to mix and match music tracks.

If they're willing to put a decent amount of money into it and hire talented artists then go for it. I love hearing different interpretations.

The score of the first Pokémon movie may have had a good replacement score, but, that script may be the worst Pokémon related script ever done for a dub of it. It misses the point of the original script.