Akira wanted Broly to end dbz?

[Regarder]

This topic is hilarious.

No, AT never even implied that Broly was his idea or inferred that said character was to somehow "end dbz." The fanbase's attachment to this character always puzzles me; he's a muscle bound rage driven moron who can utter all of 10 words. What's to like?

I agree he's not a good character overall, but I like his design, I like the fact that it's ridiculously over the top. I also like the idea of "Hoho! You think you're the Super Saiyan of legend? Hah!". It's a great sucker-punch potentially. Vegeta thought he was the Super Saiyan even before anyone achieved it, but it turns out that even that isn't the real deal.

What I don't like is how all of it ends up being handled. The plot of the movie is boring revenge stuff, and Broly has no substance behind him at all. What would have been great is if Broly was not only a huge muscle bound monstrosity, but also actually intelligent and devious like Cell. Playing against type stuff.

Broly probably should have had a better weakness than just having a knife wound. It's better if there was a weakness to the LSS form itself, so it turns out that SS is better really (though they did do that already with USS. Hmm...). Or maybe they could have had a movie where someone lost because they were unskilled for once.

There's lots wrong with the Broly movie/s, but I don't think it's the basic design of the character, or the idea of putting into doubt what is the real SS form of legend. It's everything they decided to do after they started with that which sucks.

[Luso Saiyan]

This topic is hilarious.

I think this community has the chance to educate and inform the fans with accurate info, instead some took the opportunity to spread even more misinformation around just for a joke (which the OP took as fact, probably because it was what he wanted to hear)...

[Gonstead]

It's better if there was a weakness to the LSS form itself, so it turns out that SS is better really.

The fact that the form has a continuously replenishing Ki source that needs to be expelled to not risk self-explosion. Also the fact that if the damage is serious enough (When Goku concentrated all his energy into that one punch), the user can pop like a balloon are the weaknesses.

[shinmaru]

Toriyama personally designed Broly but couldn't use the design for his intended, original final arc, which was about the TRUE legendary Super Saiyan finally surfacing after the Saiyans all achieved the form. Editorial prevented the storyline from going through (which is why we EVENTUALLY got Majin Buu, a storyline that ended up turning the very Super Saiyan concept Toriyama was prevented from exploring into a giant parody of itself as retaliation), so the design and basic outline of the arc was given to Toei and they turned it into a film.

Brolly is just a sort of what-if story of Bejita's Legendary Saiya-jin flashback from the Freeza Saga. I'm not sure, but I think Toriyama was still working on the last part of Cell or even started with the first part of Buu when the first Brolly Movie got released.
It's just like the Tullece Movie, where Toei made a movie inspired of the Goku Saiyan outfit flash back.

[dbboxkaifan]

Broli's the bastard child of the Saiyan race who wasn't worthy of appearing on the main series but he still got a trilogy for the movies (which makes him non-cannon and I don't even care about the cannon-y stuff anyway) instead of giving us an actual compelling and well designed character to praise.

I really liked Tullece and it's a shame he only got to star once and then never again.

By the way, how would Broli wrapping up Z be the way Toriyama's intended? Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z (+ GT) were always focused around Son Goku beating the villains.

[BrolyLSSJ]

This topic is hilarious.

I think this community has the chance to educate and inform the fans with accurate info, instead some took the opportunity to spread even more misinformation around just for a joke (which the OP took as fact, probably because it was what he wanted to hear)...

That's your opinion bro but as many seen and heard its more accurate then calling goku a solar system buster.

[BrolyLSSJ]

Many people will tell you I am not giving anything false as akira personally designed
Broly and Janemba.

So...? The fact that he gave some designs for those characters doesn't make your original statement true. Toriyama still didn't make those movies nor did he came up with its characters and storyline. That's a fact.

Read the credits.......

Directed by
Shigeyasu Yamauchi

Produced by
Chiaki Imada (Executive Producer)
Yoshio Anzai (Shueisha)

Written by
Takao Koyama (screenplay)
Akira Toriyama (story)
Akira Toriyama (Plot)

Music by
Shunsuke Kikuchi

[DarkPrince_92]

And then Toriyama forgot he existed at one point... I'm sure the closer for the series wouldn't be easily forgotten.

[Skar]

Toriyama personally designed Broly but couldn't use the design for his intended, original final arc, which was about the TRUE legendary Super Saiyan finally surfacing after the Saiyans all achieved the form. Editorial prevented the storyline from going through (which is why we EVENTUALLY got Majin Buu, a storyline that ended up turning the very Super Saiyan concept Toriyama was prevented from exploring into a giant parody of itself as retaliation), so the design and basic outline of the arc was given to Toei and they turned it into a film.

Do you have a source for this? The way you're describing it with all the detail makes it sound like it's more than just a rumor. I'm curious because I've never seen this anywhere on Kanzenshuu before. They're the most reliable source for all things Dragonball so if it's not on here then it's most likely fake.

Read the credits.......
Akira Toriyama (story)
Akira Toriyama (Plot)

I think that's just crediting him for creating Dragonball in general. Unless I'm mistaken it says "Toriyama (story)" in the credits of every single Dragonball movie including Evolution.

Takao Koyama was the screenwriter for all thirteen DBZ movies. This is what he said about Broly:
In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.
After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times
...
Only, from the impression I got of the character on the screen, Broli was scarier, no contest. Am I the only one who found that Broli looked overwhelmingly frightening? Or am I just biased towards my own creation?

It sounds like Koyama also created Broly. I'm a big fan of Broly but I don't think Toriyama did more than design the character after being asked.

[BrolyLSSJ]

Toriyama personally designed Broly but couldn't use the design for his intended, original final arc, which was about the TRUE legendary Super Saiyan finally surfacing after the Saiyans all achieved the form. Editorial prevented the storyline from going through (which is why we EVENTUALLY got Majin Buu, a storyline that ended up turning the very Super Saiyan concept Toriyama was prevented from exploring into a giant parody of itself as retaliation), so the design and basic outline of the arc was given to Toei and they turned it into a film.

Do you have a source for this? The way you're describing it with all the detail makes it sound like it's more than just a rumor. I'm curious because I've never seen this anywhere on Kanzenshuu before. They're the most reliable source for all things Dragonball so if it's not on here then it's most likely fake.

Read the credits.......
Akira Toriyama (story)
Akira Toriyama (Plot)

I think that's just crediting him for creating Dragonball in general. Unless I'm mistaken it says "Toriyama (story)" in the credits of every single Dragonball movie including Evolution.

Takao Koyama was the screenwriter for all thirteen DBZ movies. This is what he said about Broly:
In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.
After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times
...
Only, from the impression I got of the character on the screen, Broli was scarier, no contest. Am I the only one who found that Broli looked overwhelmingly frightening? Or am I just biased towards my own creation?

It sounds like Koyama also created Broly. I'm a big fan of Broly but I don't think Toriyama did more than design the character after being asked.

Agreed.

[JamesOwnz]

Toriyama personally designed Broly but couldn't use the design for his intended, original final arc, which was about the TRUE legendary Super Saiyan finally surfacing after the Saiyans all achieved the form. Editorial prevented the storyline from going through (which is why we EVENTUALLY got Majin Buu, a storyline that ended up turning the very Super Saiyan concept Toriyama was prevented from exploring into a giant parody of itself as retaliation), so the design and basic outline of the arc was given to Toei and they turned it into a film.

While i'm sure not true... why wouldn't editorial stop him?

[Luso Saiyan]

That's your opinion bro but as many seen and heard its more accurate

It's not my opinion, it's what happened. And a sourceless rumour is the opposite of accuracy.

Read the credits.......

You are the one who needs to read the actual credits. Those you quoted are fake. Toriyama is only credited as "original creator" [of the franchise], same as every movie (except Battle of Gods, where he's also credited for the story and character design).

[Friezacooler]

Toriyama personally designed Broly but couldn't use the design for his intended, original final arc, which was about the TRUE legendary Super Saiyan finally surfacing after the Saiyans all achieved the form. Editorial prevented the storyline from going through (which is why we EVENTUALLY got Majin Buu, a storyline that ended up turning the very Super Saiyan concept Toriyama was prevented from exploring into a giant parody of itself as retaliation), so the design and basic outline of the arc was given to Toei and they turned it into a film.

Do you have a source for this? The way you're describing it with all the detail makes it sound like it's more than just a rumor. I'm curious because I've never seen this anywhere on Kanzenshuu before. They're the most reliable source for all things Dragonball so if it's not on here then it's most likely fake.

Read the credits.......
Akira Toriyama (story)
Akira Toriyama (Plot)

I think that's just crediting him for creating Dragonball in general. Unless I'm mistaken it says "Toriyama (story)" in the credits of every single Dragonball movie including Evolution.

Takao Koyama was the screenwriter for all thirteen DBZ movies. This is what he said about Broly:
In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.
After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times
...
Only, from the impression I got of the character on the screen, Broli was scarier, no contest. Am I the only one who found that Broli looked overwhelmingly frightening? Or am I just biased towards my own creation?

It sounds like Koyama also created Broly. I'm a big fan of Broly but I don't think Toriyama did more than design the character after being asked.

Agreed.

Wouldn't it say then normally: Original story by : Akira toriyama which sounds different than just Akira Toriyama (Story). some ending credits also state: Author: Akira Toriyama. And him as the only author. While in certain interviews he denies the author role.

[BrolyLSSJ]

That's your opinion bro but as many seen and heard its more accurate

It's not my opinion, it's what happened. And a sourceless rumour is the opposite of accuracy.

Read the credits.......

You are the one who needs to read the actual credits. Those you quoted are fake. Toriyama is only credited as "original creator" [of the franchise], same as every movie (except Battle of Gods, where he's also credited for the story and character design).

K if you believe that dude as I SAID its your opinion saying its sourceless.....yet people heard about it? Ok.....state your opinion its a forum anyway.

[Luso Saiyan]

K if you believe that dude as I SAID its your opinion saying its sourceless.....

No, it's not an opinion. So much so that a source hasn't been provided.

yet people heard about it? Ok.....state your opinion its a forum anyway.

And just because there are people who heard about a (baseless) rumor it's supposed to be true? Wow...

[VegettoEX]

OK. Enough.

ImmaDeker's answers were 100% dismissive, antagonistic posts drenched in sarcasm.

None of that information is real. The problem is that people come to Kanzenshuu as a website (and then into its forum) expecting valid information, and when it's typed out in more than three words, go on the reputation of the site and expect it to be accurate. Sarcasm is then totally lost on the young, un-jaded people and non-native English speakers.

Jake answered things over here. Broli as a concept belongs to Takao Koyama. He was a creation exclusively for the movies. Toriyama was consulted for a design. He tossed out both a design and some additional thoughts on said design. Toriyama had nothing to do with the story.

Freeza Soldier has already covered it, but just to be extra thorough, here's Toriyama explaining his involvement with the movies in his Daizenshuu 6 interview (this is from back in 1995, so obviously it doesn't cover the recent spat of new movies):

What is your personal stance on Dragon Ball’s theatrical films, Sensei?
I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic”. I’m entirely just an audience member for them.

What work do you do on the films, Sensei?
I check the plot and script that gets sent to me from Toei Animation. I also do some character designs and touch-ups, as well as altering the names and such.

Are there any characters you personally designed, Sensei?
There are. Bojack and Broli, for instance. Recently I’ve done Tapion and Minoshia.

How do you go about coming up with the characters?
Toei shows me the project draft for each movie, and I design characters appropriate to the story.

You can check out Toriyama's design sketches for Broli over on Kanzenshuu's Production Guide.

Also of interest is Takao Koyama's blog post recounting his experience seeing BoG. He notes how odd it felt since it "was my first experience watching from the audience a Dragon Ball Z theatrical feature that I hadn’t handled the script for myself", and explains a bit about his process writing the old DBZ movies:

In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times.

The end. Please stop.

[Skar]

None of that information is real. The problem is that people come to Kanzenshuu as a website (and then into its forum) expecting valid information, and when it's typed out in more than three words, go on the reputation of the site and expect it to be accurate. Sarcasm is then totally lost on the young, un-jaded people and non-native English speakers.

Sorry I didn't know he was being sarcastic. I thought it was just another made up rumor like Toriyama making 200 new DBZ episodes or Vegetto appearing in the new movie. I wanted to check if he had a source or if it was something he "heard" from someone else. It didn't even cross my mind that he could've just been sarcastic! Thanks for the clarification Mr. VegettoEX.