How Does Minus Contradict The Manga?

[Kamiccolo9]

Then shut the fuck up. Because as long as we don't have a fully in-depth explanation into the story, we can safely say Bardock went to another dimension, rather than stayed at the same timeline, which in fact would contradict what Trunks said. It is funny how one calls other "fanboy" when the first is stagnant into one thing that can't stop to think, or even create some plausible theories to make something work. I think I already said it, this is like wanting to be fed, rather than feeding yourself.

Excuse me? If you want answers, ask the questions, or look them up yourself. Minus has been around long enough to where it's been thoroughly discussed by people who are much more informed about the topic than I am. There are plenty of topics on this forum alone about it, if you really want to know.

[Luso Saiyan]

So how does Minus contradict the manga?

It doesn't.

[Hujio]

I hope everyone can start being a little more super awesome toward each other, otherwise there will be some account warnings being given out. Thanks!

[FortuneSSJ]

The only problem is how Goku was sent to earth and his age.
If Toriyama didn't change that, Minus would be just fine to me. I know he is the creator but I don't like retcons.

Bardock wearing another armour is perfectly fine. They don't show his death and its not like he can't change outfits.

[Doctor.]

Raditz believes that Goku was sent to Earth to destroy it, which is not true at all. It's true that Bardock and Gine might have not had time to warn Raditz and he assumed that on his own, but then comes even the bigger problem of how Raditz found Goku in the first place, since the pod Goku used was stolen.

[Maphisto86]

Raditz believes that Goku was sent to Earth to destroy it, which is not true at all. It's true that Bardock and Gine might have not had time to warn Raditz and he assumed that on his own, but then comes even the bigger problem of how Raditz found Goku in the first place, since the pod Goku used was stolen.

Yeah that is a bit of a plot hole. One possible explanation is that the pod was tracked by Freeza's forces irregardless and assumed to be headed to Earth to wipe out its population and then forgotten when Planet Vegeta was destroyed though records might have been kept. Still it is a inconsistency with the original story . . . something we fans of Dragon Ball should be quite used to by now with original manga run alone!

[Mewzard]

Grandpa Gohan did imply that his martial arts skills protected him from an attack by Goku, so that apparently didn't change (we can still say he hit his head to change his nature no problem).

We never saw Goku land in the manga, so his exact age has some wiggle room (if he was put in the incubator when he was born, then he'd have just turned three).

Like it was said before, Bardock could have simply been wearing a different set of armor that day (I'd like to think Bardock changes his armor at least once a month...for smell at least, if not damage).

If they weren't able to tell Raditz the details of their plan (to make sure they didn't go after Goku), then he could have assumed the standard infiltration duty that Gine mentioned.

Really, not a lot's contradicted there. Toriyama's always been fairly good at making crap up on the fly (more so than the average comic writer).

[Dayspring]

Here's my problem with the "retcon" and "contradiction" complaints:

"Roshi called him a baby when Radditz shows up."
This is the best argument I've heard, but it still doesn't hold up. Roshi's story to Goku here contradicts what he tells Gyumao back in volume 2. Minus works with the original story told to Gyumao, and the fact that Goku's a toddler in Minus kind of arguably still works with the Radditz-era version of the story.

"Gine is responsible for Goku's kind heart instead of his fall into the chasm."
No she's not. Her kindness is responsible for Radditz finding out about how Goku survived (meaning it fills in a plothole, not creates one). Goku is shown to be violent-tempered in both Minus and Jaco, both of which occur prior to the fall into the chasm.

"Bardock's armor is different from what we see in the flashback scene."
So? His armor is very damaged when he returns to planet Vegeta in Minus. The flashback takes place a month later. It's very likely he would have changed his armor during that time.

"Bardock has his bandanna in the flashback, but not in Minus. Where did he get it from, if not from a dead Saiyan?"
The Saiyans get killed a month after Minus ends, so presumably under similar circumstances. OR under different circumstances. It's just a bandanna, after all.

"Episode of Bardock works with the special, not with Minus."
1)The Episode of Bardock manga starts off with a retcon to the special that works with the Dragonball manga series. Freeza blows up the planet, and Bardock is caught up in the explosion. However, a rift in space opens up and sucks Bardock into it. In the Bardock TV special, Bardock is shown dying and the anime version of Episode of Bardock mirrors this. The flashback in the Dragonball manga doesn't distinguish whether Bardock is killed in the blast or sucked into the vortex before it kills him.
2) Neither Episode of Bardock nor the Bardock TV special are part of the manga anyway, so who cares?

"Radditz is shown to be with Vegeta."
This contradicts nothing as we never knew the circumstances as to how Nappa, Vegeta and Radditz survived. All we know is they were off-world on missions, which is what's shown here.

"Bardock is a nice parent instead of the heartless one we see in the manga."
1) We don't see anything about Bardock's parenting in the manga's flashbacks.
2) Gine agrees, so Bardock says she must be rubbing off on him.

"Gine doesn't look like Radditz, unlike in the manga."
Gine is introduced in Minus, so I'm not sure what this is about. Meanwhile, she kind of does look like him...

"Freeza knows about Super Saiyans."
Yeah, hence his goal of blowing up the planet and the species, both in the manga and in Minus. Nothing new here.

"Freeza knows about Super Saiyan God."
SSG was shoe-horned into the mythos as of BoG. This is a retcon, not a contradiction. It just gives Freeza extra motivation to kill of the Saiyans.

"It contradicts what Trunks says."
Huh?!

"Goku was sent to Earth to hide, not conquer it."
Only until he was strong enough to conquer it.

[Luso Saiyan]

Here's my problem with the "retcon" and "contradiction" complaints:

Like I said, there's no actual contradiction whatsoever.

[Lord Beerus]

Minus doesn't contradict the manga in any way.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

There is no actual contradiction from what I recall. It did reveal though that the reason that Goku was sent to Earth wasn't actually the one told in the manga, and an additional reason for Freeza to kill the Saiyans.

-Gine being responsible for Goku's good nature when it was established for years it was caused by him falling hard on his head.

WHAT WAS THAT?!

[Rocketman]

It doesn't directly contradict the manga's facts, but it does contradict its spirit. The whole "Goku sent to destroy Earth, winds up being its greatest warrior"/"Goku sent away as trash by the Saiyans, becomes far more than they ever dreamed" thing is thrown out because now it's "Goku was sent away to a backwater because he was loved".

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It doesn't directly contradict the manga's facts, but it does contradict its spirit. The whole "Goku sent to destroy Earth, winds up being its greatest warrior"/"Goku sent away as trash by the Saiyans, becomes far more than they ever dreamed" thing is thrown out because now it's "Goku was sent away to a backwater because he was loved".

Yeah, this does suck. At least the part "Goku was born a weakling, yet becomes one of the strongest Saiyans ever" remains.

[Black Hawk]

It doesn't directly contradict the manga's facts, but it does contradict its spirit. The whole "Goku sent to destroy Earth, winds up being its greatest warrior"/"Goku sent away as trash by the Saiyans, becomes far more than they ever dreamed" thing is thrown out because now it's "Goku was sent away to a backwater because he was loved".

While I'm probably in the minority, that's actually one of the reasons I love Dragon Ball Minus so much. Gokū's parents, the only two Saiyajin (at the time) known to have the have some capacity/ability for loving their family, enabled everything that he does later on. It's the slim-to-none chance of that happening that really get to me and make me love it.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I'd have to agree with Black Hawk and Dayspring's posts explaining away the potential issues. I'd never actually set down and wrote it all out, but that's more or less how I've rationalized things in my mind to make it all work. And as far as the 'it ruins Goku's origin' thing, I would only have a problem with that if Goku actually found out about it (which even with Jaco showing up in FnF shouldn't happen, because it's not like Jaco himself knew those details), but since he doesn't, it's just this secret history tidbit. So really that just leaves two issues with Minus for me - 1) the fact that there really isn't a whole lot going on in it, and 2) how in the hell does Freeza know about Super Saiyan God. I'm hoping the last one will be explained in the new movie.

[MagicBox]

As others have (thankfully) said, there are no factual contradictions. Burdock appeared in two panels of the manga. All we know from those two panels is that he...

1.) confronts Freeza in space with damaged armor and a headband.

2.) that he seems to have been blown up by Freeza in his first form.

3.) that he "resisted to the very end."

All of that is still entirely possible now that "Minus" exists. The problem is that people keep trying to drag the animated stuff into this.

Goku's "Mission"
Raditz had every reason to believe that Goku had been given a mission to conquer Earth; he clearly says in the manga that Saiyans send their children to do exactly that. He had no idea why Burdock did what he did, and Burdock had no reason to tell him his motives. Raditz found out that Goku had been sent to Earth, and that was likely all he was ever told. It's not like Burdock was alive to set the record straight when Raditz traveled to Earth to find his brother.

Even if Goku wasn't given a mission to conquer Earth, that's what was ultimately going to happen. Saiyans are a warrior race; Kakarrotto was going to grow up to be a very, very violent person. He was a very real threat to the planet. In Jaco, Gohan mentions that Goku "caused a ruckus." He also comments on Goku's incredible strength, saying that he would have been in trouble if he weren't already an experienced martial artist. All of this implies that Goku either attacked Gohan or created a situation in which Gohan had to subdue him in some way. It's outright stated in both Dragon Ball and Jaco: pre-amnesia Goku was a little asshole. The head injury turned him into a nice person, not Gine. Whether Goku was given a mission or not, he absolutely needed that bump on the head. It still makes sense.

"Infant" VS "Baby" VS "Toddler"
I'm still dumbfounded that this battle of semantics is taken so seriously. Goku was barely three when he was sent to Earth. Anyone over the age of five sees a kid that young and immediately thinks "baby." You might hear the word "toddler" thrown around if you're talking to a group of moms, but I hardly think using the word "baby" creates a plot hole. Let's not forget that Muten Roshi is the one who uses the term. A three-year-old is a baby in the eyes of a 300-year-old geezer. And sending Goku to Earth as a toddler? I *love* that. The whole "send them as newborns, but without armor" thing never made a lick of sense. I never liked that.

"Minus" also explains why Raditz imagines Goku as a newborn (sans armor) when he arrives on Earth; he's only ever seen him floating in that incubation chamber.

Burdock Being "Nice"
He's still shown as a blood-thirsty Saiyan warrior, slaughtering aliens. Pay attention to his "whatever" attitude to the Saiyans who tried to talk to him. He's a jerk. He may have a soft spot for his family, but he was still acting like a dick to everyone else. Giving him someone to care about doesn't ruin the character. He cared about his friends in the TV special, too.

[GeeRod]

I thought that people hated Minus because it contradict so many things. But seeing you guys said that Minus don't contradict anything made me think:

Why Minus is so hated? Because is almost identical to Superman's backstory? Because contradict the anime?

I've read and didn't have any problem with.

[Rocketman]

I thought that people hated Minus because it contradict so many things. But seeing you guys said that Minus don't contradict anything made me think:

Why Minus is so hated? Because is almost identical to Superman's backstory? Because contradict the anime?

I've read and didn't have any problem with.

The Bardock TV special was really good, and Minus is not.

[MagicBox]

Why Minus is so hated?

I like "Minus." I like the information that it gives us. I prefer it over the Burdock TV special as an "origin story" for Dragon Ball.

But it's about as run-of-the-mill as you can get. It's corny. Burdock and especially Gine are underdeveloped, and the story felt like a waste of time for a lot of people.

As a standalone piece of storytelling, I prefer the TV special. I adore it from beginning to end. But as something that actually connects to the larger Dragon Ball story, I prefer "Minus" despite its cheesy dialogue, undeveloped characters, and "Superman" vibe. It's a strange feeling to prefer something that I have so many nitpicks about, but to me, the "Minus" version of the Saiyan backstory and Goku's departure makes more sense.

[Kaboom]

Why Minus is so hated? Because is almost identical to Superman's backstory? Because contradict the anime?

Because it's new and different and people don't like having the status quo shaken.

The way I see it, we now just have two different versions of Bardock's story, the same way we already had two different versions of Trunks' story. No big deal.