What are the power levels gt characters on a scale

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Apparently, Chozenshu 4 places them in the same timeline.

[Berserker1921]

But I hear that gt doesn't count. And beerus didn't exist when gt started. But beerus did and gt did count. Goku would have gotten blue haired ssj God 4 goku

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

But BoG is a confirmed part of Z history, and GT is a continuation of Z.

Besides I don't see why people always say "BoG and FnF don't fit in with GT!", the new movies don't even make sense of the ending of the actual manga.

[Berserker1921]

But BoG is a confirmed part of Z history, and GT is a continuation of Z.

Besides I don't see why people always say "BoG and FnF don't fit in with GT!", the new movies don't even make sense of the ending of the actual manga.

Gt doesn't fit anymore. These movies confirm that. I like some aspects of gt but overall I like z more. Now these movies show rhay goku achieves godly powers by facing against beerus. I'm gt the old Kai says that when goku achieve ssj4 he is stronger then vegito. But goku confirms that after getting his butt handed by beerus in BoG extended cut. He said that he wouldn't have a chance even if he merged with vegeta. So logically if gogeta or vegito faced against beerus they be slaughtered. And in gt old Kai says that ssj4 goku is stronger then vegito. Shouldn't he have achieved that way before gt?

[singsing]

Who said Goku could sense Beerus and Whis after attained SSG?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gt doesn't fit anymore. These movies confirm that. I like some aspects of gt but overall I like z more. Now these movies show rhay goku achieves godly powers by facing against beerus. I'm gt the old Kai says that when goku achieve ssj4 he is stronger then vegito. But goku confirms that after getting his butt handed by beerus in BoG extended cut. He said that he wouldn't have a chance even if he merged with vegeta. So logically if gogeta or vegito faced against beerus they be slaughtered. And in gt old Kai says that ssj4 goku is stronger then vegito. Shouldn't he have achieved that way before gt?

Why can't GT fit anymore? End of Z pretty much can't fit anymore, yet no one ever brings that up.

Who said Goku could sense Beerus and Whis after attained SSG?

I thought you could sense godly ki if you yourself had godly ki?

[Berserker1921]

Gt doesn't fit anymore. These movies confirm that. I like some aspects of gt but overall I like z more. Now these movies show rhay goku achieves godly powers by facing against beerus. I'm gt the old Kai says that when goku achieve ssj4 he is stronger then vegito. But goku confirms that after getting his butt handed by beerus in BoG extended cut. He said that he wouldn't have a chance even if he merged with vegeta. So logically if gogeta or vegito faced against beerus they be slaughtered. And in gt old Kai says that ssj4 goku is stronger then vegito. Shouldn't he have achieved that way before gt?

Why can't GT fit anymore? End of Z pretty much can't fit anymore, yet no one ever brings that up.

Who said Goku could sense Beerus and Whis after attained SSG?

I thought you could sense godly ki if you yourself had godly ki?

I brought it up in another topic. It doesn't make sense either. But all we saw was goku in base form fighting against uub. You can argue goku is holding back a lot.

[fadeddreams5]

But BoG is a confirmed part of Z history, and GT is a continuation of Z.

Besides I don't see why people always say "BoG and FnF don't fit in with GT!", the new movies don't even make sense of the ending of the actual manga.

Goku and Vegeta have a new form that replaces SSJ. Frieza has a new form and is not the scrub depicted in GT. Hell is different. Goku apparently has opted not to use SSJ2 or SSJ3 anymore. And so on. GT is an alternate reality unless Whis decides to undo history in a third or fourth movie. Beerus was never met in this reality. Otherwise, SSJG would be a thing. That is, unless Goku lost his powers...which makes him weaker anyways.

Besides Mystic Gohan in EoZ and some age discrepancies, it still fits. =P

[Berserker1921]

But BoG is a confirmed part of Z history, and GT is a continuation of Z.

Besides I don't see why people always say "BoG and FnF don't fit in with GT!", the new movies don't even make sense of the ending of the actual manga.

Goku and Vegeta have a new form that replaces SSJ. Freeza has a new form and is not the scrub depicted in GT. Hell is different. Goku apparently has opted not to use SSJ2 or SSJ3 anymore. And so on. GT is an alternate reality unless Whis decides to undo history in a third or fourth movie. Beerus was never met in this reality. Otherwise, SSJG would be a thing. That is, unless Goku lost his powers...which makes him weaker anyways.

Besides Mystic Gohan in EoZ and some age discrepancies, it still fits. =P

Yes that's what I thought. Gt is a what if. What if goku never met beerus. Or what if beerus and whis never existed. Like he said after goku and vegeta absorbed the God power. Their transformations would be blue haired. But if whis rewinds time and brings it back to the very beginning then gt could happen.

[singsing]

I thought you could sense godly ki if you yourself had godly ki?

I don't recall that ever being stated.

[Tectorman]

To use Instant Transmission, you have to be able to sense your target (or your target has to be next to someone you can sense). Goku and Beers were way up in Earth orbit with no one else around, and he pulled an IT speed blitz on Beers before he unleashed a Kamehameha that Beers was able to take.

Therefore, Goku could at least sense Beers.

...

Regarding End of Z, I don't see how the movies are negating it yet.

Before BoG, we weren't under the impression that anything had happened to Goku's transformations. But he never used them against Uub. He might've been hoping for Uub's ability to tap into his dormant powers to make the fight interesting enough to warrant SSJ, SSJ2, or even SSJ3, but Goku started out that fight holding a heck of a lot back.

BoG shows him way surpassing his former SSJ3 abilities, such that there's no way he'd have to use a significant portion of his power to fight a reincarnation of Kid Buu, merely the equal of his SSJ3 abilities. So he's holding back a great deal.

If we were previously okay with Goku holding back, why does Goku holding back now present a problem? Why doesn't End of Z still fit?

[Hellspawn28]

I think SSjG and Goku's newest SSj form is stronger then normal SSj4 since godly ki seems stronger then normal ki.

Why can't GT fit anymore? End of Z pretty much can't fit anymore, yet no one ever brings that up.

End of Z can still happen since the only thing that changes EOZ is Pan's age but that's minor. However in GT, Goku goes beyond SSj and Toriyama mention that Goku won't need to go SSj2 & SSj3. Goku hair becomes blue when he goes SSj now while his hair is still yellow in GT. Freeza seems to be weak as crap in GT given how base Goku own him while Freeza is beyond Buuhan and Vegito in ROF. Freeza has a new form that he can transform and he never bother to use it in GT.

[Bullza]

Isn't the Super Saiyan 4 supposed to be on the same level as Super Vegito whereas Super Saiyan God would be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegito?

[Dayspring]

Just adding my two cents to "new movies contradict the end of the series" arguments:

1) Pan's age doesn't make sense (at the end of the manga). She's 4 years old. It's been five years since everybody last met together (because all the occasions since then, Goku wasn't present). That means Pan met everybody else while she was -1 years old.

2) Uub doesn't have Buu's many magical powers and the fighting rules of the budokai mean you lose if you get knocked out of the ring. On top of Goku now definitely being stronger than Kid Buu, Uub's chances of winning are much lower than Kid Buu's. Goku's still excited to fight Uub anyway. The only community-wide-accepted valid argument (Goku's not fighting at full base-form strength) to explain this plothole also applies to SSJ God. The other logical argument (Goku thinks Uub's unknown strength might be higher than his) also applies to SSJ God.

No real dilemmas, folks.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Isn't the Super Saiyan 4 supposed to be on the same level as Super Vegito whereas Super Saiyan God would be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegito?

No, as I keep saying all the time, Super Vegetto is not on SS4 Goku's level.

Everyone seems to ignore Baby Vegeta and go with a guidebook instead.

[Tectorman]

Isn't the Super Saiyan 4 supposed to be on the same level as Super Vegito whereas Super Saiyan God would be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegito?

No, as I keep saying all the time, Super Vegetto is not on SS4 Goku's level.

Everyone seems to ignore Baby Vegeta and go with a guidebook instead.

Not necessarily. If Super Vegetto only needed, say, half his power to completely ragdoll Buuhan, then he would be capable of far more without having actually exhibited it for the Elder Kai to pick up on and later compare to Bebi Vegeta.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

The Old Kaioshin statement is a myth.

Baby Vegeta says he now has the greatest of Saiyan power after transforming.

[Tectorman]

What was the actual phrasing?

Did he claim to be the strongest Saiyan alive, or the strongest Saiyan that had ever lived?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

"Power! I now have the greatest of Saiyan power!

[Tectorman]

Mmmmm...

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm not sold. As in, Princess-Bride-quote not sold.

Not to mention, doesn't it run afoul of Goku's fight with Rildo?