If GT Ended With the Baby Arc ...

[ABED]

It's not even really mind control, Baby takes over his body completely.

[Doctor.]

He's better written than Buu.

How? They both have developed backstories, an established and consistent personality but Boo actually develops as a character through his relationship with Mr. Satan.

[ABED]

Why does development automatically make him better?

The reason I think Baby is better is because Buu isn't an interesting villain. The humor undercuts the character's villainy and his transformations make such little sense. Baby has a stronger reason and drive to do what he does and the connection to the heroes is more interesting to me.

[fadeddreams5]

Buu isn't interesting if you're looking for a profound villain with a reasonable motive. Now, if you want to be entertained by a fun villain with unique abilities and a crazy personality who also brings dark comedy to the table, then Buu is a billion times more interesting than Bebi and every other GT villain.

[ABED]

I'm not looking for something profound, but Baby is still more interesting to me than Buu. I don't find Buu interesting period. The only time I liked him as a villain is as Kid Buu and even that wears thin pretty quickly.

[Doctor.]

Why does development automatically make him better?

The reason I think Baby is better is because Buu isn't an interesting villain. The humor undercuts the character's villainy and his transformations make such little sense. Baby has a stronger reason and drive to do what he does and the connection to the heroes is more interesting to me.

It doesn't automatically make him better, but it's one important aspect that Boo has over Bebi and if you're judging both those characters by who's "better written", then it's something to take into account.

[DBZAOTA482]

Even though I'm not the biggest fan of Majin Boo (mainly for his OP abilities, nonsensicale backstory, and lack of connection to the heroes)... at least not as a villain, I think he's certainly better than Bebi if just alone for his relative originality. I actually really like the juxtaposition within his nature... I mean, one moment he's jigging around and happy shit then the next he's gouging your eyes out. That makes him heavily unpredictable even among other villains from the series. Too bad he lost much of that appeal when he starting absorbing people.

With Bebi, he's just "The Saiyans oppressed our race so I'll oppress the entire human race... rawr!!!" in addition to his grating voice.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

The Baby arc doesnt have enough weight to hold up an entire self-contained series. Though I disagree with the majority here saying it was the weakest arc. I found it to be the best among the 4 of GT. (personally finding the Super 17 & Dragons Arc) to be far worse execution wise. But Baby just isnt a climax villain for the stage of the series, a better villin than Buu but he never felt like the ultimate threat persay, just delayed reminence. It would feel out of place if he was the final villain to end the entire series which is why Omega Shenron fit that role better. Baby is someone that should have came after the Freeza arc personally considering thats where the Saiyan history was still relevant for Goku.

Even though I'm not the biggest fan of Majin Boo (mainly for his OP abilities, nonsensicale backstory, and lack of connection to the heroes)... at least not as a villain, I think he's certainly better than Bebi if just alone for his relative originality. I actually really like the juxtaposition within his nature... I mean, one moment he's jigging around and happy shit then the next he's gouging your eyes out. That makes him heavily unpredictable even among other villains from the series. Too bad he lost much of that appeal when he starting absorbing people.

With Bebi, he's just "The Saiyans oppressed our race so I'll oppress the entire human race... rawr!!!" in addition to his grating voice.

Buu may have been unique as a character, but hes as empty as they came. Probably the most shallow villain ever created (excluding Fat Buu). Super and Kid Buu took the spotlight for the longest time and yet was more so devoid of charcter than Broly comparitively. He just came in out of no where and left without a reference ever since. Even Cell was brought back into relevance when measuring Adult Gohan and Goku's SSJ2 strengths. Buu was never brought up again for anything beyond identifying Uub.

[fadeddreams5]

He just came in out of no where and left without a reference ever since. Even Cell was brought back into relevance when measuring Adult Gohan and Goku's SSJ2 strengths. Buu was never brought up again for anything beyond identifying Uub.

Wait what? Buu is constantly referenced. He's mentioned when Goku fights Janemba in Fusion Reborn. He's mentioned when Goku fights Rildo in GT. He's mentioned in the F manga as one of two beings Frieza was told to never engage in a fight with. He's mentioned in interviews, such as the one where Toriyama changed his backstory. And to top it all off, he was reincarnated into a completely new, original character!

If anything, out of the three major villains of DBZ, Cell is the one who's gotten the boot.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Wait what? Buu is constantly referenced. He's mentioned when Goku fights Janemba in Fusion Reborn. He's mentioned when Goku fights Rildo in GT. He's mentioned in the F manga as one of two beings Freeza was told to never engage in a fight with. He's mentioned in interviews, such as the one where Toriyama changed his backstory. And to top it all off, he was reincarnated into a completely new, original character!

Well aside from the modern references though. I also just took the statements about Rildo with salt because he never out preformed Buu to me. Buu was never really used as a scaling bar as much as Cell and Freeza were. It actually surprises me Toriyama even remembered Buu was stronger than Freeza at this point.

[ABED]

With Bebi, he's just "The Saiyans oppressed our race so I'll oppress the entire human race... rawr!!!" in addition to his grating voice.

It's understandable as a motivation. No need to complicate it, and he doesn't oppress humans as much as subsume (for lack of a better world) them. I find it interesting in a villain that they don't see they are responsible for the same behavior they are supposedly fighting against.

I'll take Baby's voice over Buu's American voices.

[Kid Buu]

Fat Buu, Super Buu, and Pure Buu are all technically different characters. Which one are we comparing to Bebi, all 3?

[fadeddreams5]

Well aside from the modern references though. I also just took the statements about Rildo with salt because he never out preformed Buu to me. Buu was never really used as a scaling bar as much as Cell and Freeza were. It actually surprises me Toriyama even remembered Buu was stronger than Freeza at this point.

To be fair, the Buu saga was the last saga in the manga. =P

I'll take Baby's voice over Buu's American voices.

O_o!

Fat Buu, Super Buu, and Pure Buu are all technically different characters. Which one are we comparing to Bebi, all 3?

Well, the main villain in that saga is Evil/Skinny Buu (who turns into Super Buu, and was part of Fat Buu's power source and influence), so I'm mainly referencing him and the original (Kid Buu).

[NintendoFan28]

I thought Bebi was a pretty good villain. I found to him to be more interesting than Cell and Boo (except for Imperfect Cell & Fat Boo/Gotenks Boo). However, I don't think GT should have ended at the Bebi Arc, since I enjoyed the Shadow Dragon Arc. I thought Omega was pretty decent for a final villain.

[supercat]

While many fans seemed to have disliked the Super 17 Arc, I personally found it refreshing to see some of the old villains back in action. Although the majority of them were portrayed as a complete joke (namely Cell and Frieza), it was a good opportunity to really show how far Goku has come over the years.

The Super 17 Arc also had some moments that were a bit moving to say the least. Vegeta proclaiming to protect the Earth, and finally outwardly expressing his acceptance of blending in with the Earthlings was deep. This confirmed how his character has genuinely matured from being a boastful prince to a virtuous warrior, who was not only willing to protect his planet, but to embrace who he's become. This transition is once again reinforced after the battle between Goku and Super 17, when he expresses joy after realizing his loved ones and home would be safe, even though it was yet again his former rival / enemy that took the enemy down (although he expressed something like this in the Buu Arc as well).

I personally had mixed feelings towards the Shadow Dragons Arc, but I thought Omega Shenron was the perfect villain to wrap the series up with. I know desperately trying to gather energy for the Spirit Bomb was already done, but the final scene of despair where everyone is sharing their energy and ultimately contributing their effort towards saving the universe, was very nicely done. It just seemed a lot more meaningful than simply outclassing the final villain by obtaining a higher battle power.

[ABED]

I'll take Baby's voice over Buu's American voices.

O_o!

Josh Martin's high pitched Buu voice is insufferable and Cook is not only a terrible actor but the voice he uses for Super Buu is completely put on "bad guy voice".

[The Desert Bandit]

I think it would turn out better if it ended with the Baby Saga, BUT only if they extended the Saga to match the lengths of what DBZ had to offer. I think a good idea would be to mix the Shadow Dragon Saga with the Baby Saga and make a few tweaks, as I do like the idea of overusing the Dragon Balls having a major drawback. Especially if it gives the Z-Fighters the idea that they can't rely on the Dragon Balls to solve all of their problems.

Maybe, after everyone's mind-control is lifted, the other Z-Fighters can search for the Dragon Balls. This would add usefulness to the Earthlings, such as Krillin, Tien and Yamcha, as they would serve as a way of locating the Dragon Balls why Goku is fighting Baby. The Shadow Dragons can appear and team-up with Baby and cause a much darker mess of trouble for Earth. I feel that this would have made GT seem more dire and serious than it currently is. At the same time, they could've also made the Shadow Dragons much more intimidating. I don't mind when a villain looks silly or harmless only to be very deadly, but I felt GT overdid it to the point of being just plain silly and childish. More villains should have had scary personalities and designs that would darken up the series a bit. This is why Nuova Shenron, Eis Shenron, and Syn Shenron are the only respectable Shadow Dragons. Oceanus Shenron would be included if it weren't for being rather goofy in terms of personality.

[FoolsGil]

Would GT ending with the Baby Arc be due to the series being cancelled, or Toei going into GT knowing they were doing a miniseries?

If it's the former, it would be looked the same way as it is now. If it's the latter, Toei would have likely planned the shorter series better, so perhaps it would be seen more positively.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

While many fans seemed to have disliked the Super 17 Arc, I personally found it refreshing to see some of the old villains back in action. Although the majority of them were portrayed as a complete joke (namely Cell and Freeza), it was a good opportunity to really show how far Goku has come over the years.

The Super #17 Arc was a good idea TBH and could have worked significantly for plenty of reasons.
- The Final results of the Android Saga closing.
- #17 & Goku actually meeting and Fighting like originally planned.
- #18 Showing her character development from the time past (which was done pretty well as it was; and her faking the bomb claim with them referencing the sigicance of things done in older arcs adding up, gave me a long awaited feel of progressive continuity. Something the Buu saga never had.

I think it would turn out better if it ended with the Baby Saga, BUT only if they extended the Saga to match the lengths of what DBZ had to offer. I think a good idea would be to mix the Shadow Dragon Saga with the Baby Saga and make a few tweaks, as I do like the idea of overusing the Dragon Balls having a major drawback. Especially if it gives the Z-Fighters the idea that they can't rely on the Dragon Balls to solve all of their problems.

Maybe, after everyone's mind-control is lifted, the other Z-Fighters can search for the Dragon Balls. This would add usefulness to the Earthlings, such as Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha, as they would serve as a way of locating the Dragon Balls why Goku is fighting Baby. The Shadow Dragons can appear and team-up with Baby and cause a much darker mess of trouble for Earth. I feel that this would have made GT seem more dire and serious than it currently is. At the same time, they could've also made the Shadow Dragons much more intimidating. I don't mind when a villain looks silly or harmless only to be very deadly, but I felt GT overdid it to the point of being just plain silly and childish. More villains should have had scary personalities and designs that would darken up the series a bit. This is why Nuova Shenron, Eis Shenron, and Syn Shenron are the only respectable Shadow Dragons. Oceanus Shenron would be included if it weren't for being rather goofy in terms of personality.

I dont think the shadow dragons should have been merged. The sigificance of the Baby arc could have been to end the whole image of Sayians being savage or have Goku clean up the reminance of his heitage - and end it on Goku being the Good Saiyan in a similar way to how Vegeta reflected on why Goku is the better warrior than him.

I do agree though the Shadow Dragon arc was horribly planned out as most of the dragons were pathetically weak and gag villains, which didnt balance out their significance, kind of like a reverse of the issues I have with the Super 17 arc. With the stakes of what the Dragons represented, they should all have been as hard to beat as Syn Shenron at represent god levels. Not be so weak that Pan could beat one. If I could retier them I would have made them all Under Beerus level, and Omega at Beerus level.

[fadeddreams5]

The main part of the Super 17 arc was like a fanfic written by an Android 17 fanboy, and the side part was a direct rip-off of movie 12. The idea was god awful. And yet, ironically, it was the most entertaining part of GT, imo.

I do agree though the Shadow Dragon arc was horribly planned out as most of the dragons were pathetically weak and gag villains, which didnt balance out their significance, kind of like a reverse of the issues I have with the Super 17 arc. With the stakes of what the Dragons represented, they should all have been as hard to beat as Syn Shenron at represent god levels. Not be so weak that Pan could beat one. If I could retier them I would have made them all Under Beerus level, and Omega at Beerus level.

Honestly, there's no need to retier them. What they should have done was split up the Z-fighters, so each gets a shot at one. Weaker characters would face the weaker dragons. We'd actually get screen time with characters that are not ****ing Goku and Pan.