Oob's Level..?

[Lord Beerus]

If Goku keeps his SSJG power then, I'd put Oob around Super Boo level.

Why would you place Oob so high? Logically, the highest power he should have without training should be at Pure Boo's level. And even if he is at Pure Boo
s or Evil Boo's, hell, even Gohan Boo's level, base Goku would still have to be holding back against him.

I only suggested Oob may around Super Boo level purely on the basis that if Goku much stronger by EOZ in Super in comparison to how strong he is in EOZ in the manga, the Toei and/or Toriyama may feel obliged to inflate Oob's potential to make Oob's strength seem more impressive in comparison.

[Galan007]

I don't take into account BoGs and RoF when discussing the ending to DB because they weren't even a thought back when Uub was made

Well, BoG/RoF/Super exist now. So until we have a legitimate reason to assume otherwise, we must assume the new line of continuity will still mesh with the "10 Years Later" chapters of the original manga.

That's the point of this thread, after all: to figure out where Oob ranks with the new material factored in.

[h0kuten]

If we take Dragonball Super & Fukkatsu no F into account, it seems to implicate Base Goku is probably Ssj3 tier, as is final form Frieza. The SSJG transformation from Battle of Gods probably wore off on Goku and he needed someway to achieve that level of power once more, so he invented the SSJG SS alongside Vegeta.

I've an enraged Uub at equaol levels with Pure Buu and Base Goku (FnF + EOZ) equal to his previous Ssj3 level from the Majin Buu Saga.

So the new material doesn't really contradicted the old material. It's all about making it work.

[Low Tone G]

If we take Dragonball Super & Fukkatsu no F into account, it seems to implicate Base Goku is probably Ssj3 tier, as is final form Freeza. The SSJG transformation from Battle of Gods probably wore off on Goku and he needed someway to achieve that level of power once more, so he invented the SSJG SS alongside Vegeta.

I've an enraged Uub at equaol levels with Pure Buu and Base Goku (FnF + EOZ) equal to his previous Ssj3 level from the Majin Buu Saga.

So the new material doesn't really contradicted the old material. It's all about making it work.

No proof that Goku has decreased in power. Toriyama says quite otherwise, he states Goku doesn't need to turn God once again, because he already absorbed the power. The FnF doesn't really imply that Goku is only SSJ3 tier in base, because 4th form Freeza doesn't stand a single chance against him. Goku was truly confident that he doesn't need to turn SSGSS when Freeza demands for the Super Saiyan form, because he didn't need it. So it simply implies that Goku has only a slight advantage in SSGSS form over his base. Not to mention that Goku's "Base" is somewhat different from other base forms in the film it's more dense and milk-like.(I'm sure if it's truly intended by Toriyama too to be that way). Goku was truly impressed when Freeza turned Golden, as he hadn't imagined to be that level. So Freeza's power level must have skyrocketed upon his 4th form. If Goku was only slightly above 4th form Freeza, and both being SSJ3 tier, then Goku should have mentioned that Freeza's power truly increased, but that so shocking as it did in the film.

Other proof is that during the Whis training, Goku didn't choose to transform into SSGSS, he attempted to fight Whis in base. If we can also bring the manga adaptation's scene when Goku had a Super Saiyan God illusion attacking Whis.

[supercat]

If BoG and FnF are factored into this equation, then Uub's power is probably at the least, in line with Final Form Frieza (FnF), who I could envision effortlessly one-shotting SSJ Vegetto.

[Galan007]

No proof that Goku has decreased in power. Toriyama says quite otherwise, he states Goku doesn't need to turn God once again, because he already absorbed the power. The FnF doesn't really imply that Goku is only SSJ3 tier in base, because 4th form Freeza doesn't stand a single chance against him. Goku was truly confident that he doesn't need to turn SSGSS when Freeza demands for the Super Saiyan form, because he didn't need it. So it simply implies that Goku has only a slight advantage in SSGSS form over his base. Not to mention that Goku's "Base" is somewhat different from other base forms in the film it's more dense and milk-like.(I'm sure if it's truly intended by Toriyama too to be that way). Goku was truly impressed when Freeza turned Golden, as he hadn't imagined to be that level. So Freeza's power level must have skyrocketed upon his 4th form. If Goku was only slightly above 4th form Freeza, and both being SSJ3 tier, then Goku should have mentioned that Freeza's power truly increased, but that so shocking as it did in the film.

Other proof is that during the Whis training, Goku didn't choose to transform into SSGSS, he attempted to fight Whis in base. If we can also bring the manga adaptation's scene when Goku had a Super Saiyan God illusion attacking Whis.

Additionally, we know that SSJ3 Goku is only about 8x> SSJ Gohan, who was evidently no match for 1st form Freeza. Assuming the same transformation multipliers still hold true for Freeza, we know that his 4th form is 226x> his 1st form(530k/120m=226x.) This is important because base Goku was demonstrably superior to 4th form Freeza in RoF.

In a nutshell: had Goku 'only' been SSJ3-level, he would have been no match for 4th form Freeza.

[sintzu]

But why would he bother retconing Buu's origin, when Buu is already gone?

Maybe after re-reading the manga he noticed that Buu was a copy of Cell so he decided to give him a different origin.

So until we have a legitimate reason to assume otherwise, we must assume the new line of continuity will still mesh with the "10 Years Later" chapters of the original manga.

If Videl is pregnant in this arc then the "10 years later" part of the story will be rewritten or not visited which means no more Uub but if Toriyama does decide to include him in the story then he'll be changed to fit the current events we're seeing.

[Galan007]

If Videl is pregnant in this arc then the "10 years later" part of the story will be rewritten or not visited

Super has now caught up to BoG, so we know that Videl must be pregnant, because Pan(unborn) is required for the SSJG ritual.

[Darkprince410]

If Videl is pregnant in this arc then the "10 years later" part of the story will be rewritten or not visited

Super has now caught up to BoG, so we know that Videl must be pregnant, because Pan(unborn) is required for the SSJG ritual.

Not if Toriyama changes the requirements for the ritual. He'd either have to do that or have to change the ending to Z (Pan's age and all), because otherwise Pan would be 9 years old at the end of Z, not 4 years old (going on 5).

[Galan007]

Yeah, true.

Tbh, I'm not sure what would be easier, and/or make the most sense: altering Pan's age at the 28th WMAT(she'd be 8-9y/o now), or altering the requirements for SSJG(4 Saiyans instead of 5.) Either one could work without any real hiccups, IF he intents to keep the EoZ chapters canon. /shrug

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If Videl is pregnant in this arc then the "10 years later" part of the story will be rewritten or not visited which means no more Uub but if Toriyama does decide to include him in the story then he'll be changed to fit the current events we're seeing.

Super taking place 6 months after Boo's death, which was only stated in promotional stuff that have been wrong before, is already contradicted by the series itself, so it most likely still takes place 4 years after Boo's death, like BoG.

[h0kuten]

The whole point about Goku & Vegeta training is so that they can defeat a Kid Buu level opponent on their own. When Uub is born, Goku's expects him to be as powerful as his previous incarnation, which he also proves to be. Vegeta also comments on still only being second best, despite seeing Uub's enraged power.

Spoiler:

Goku (EOZ)
~Base 40,000,000,000

Vegeta (EOZ)
~Base 40,000,000,000

Uub
~Enraged 38,000,000,000

Kid Buu
~Full Power 38,000,000,000

Goku (Buu Saga)
~Ssj3 36,000,000,000

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta also comments on still only being second best, despite seeing Uub's enraged power.

Where does he say that?

It could mean that Goku and Vegeta are still stronger than Oob counting on their Super Saiyan's level.

[h0kuten]

Vegeta also comments on still only being second best, despite seeing Uub's enraged power.

Where does he say that?

It could mean that Goku and Vegeta are still stronger than Oob counting on their Super Saiyan's level.

Well he states 'I will surpass you soon'.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta also comments on still only being second best, despite seeing Uub's enraged power.

Where does he say that?

It could mean that Goku and Vegeta are still stronger than Oob counting on their Super Saiyan's level.

Well he states 'I will surpass you soon'.

I won't say that means nothing, but you know, it's sounds like just Vegeta stating he didn't give up on his goal. He might be right after Goku in powerlevel, though. It fits with both old and new stuff.

[sintzu]

Super taking place 6 months after Boo's death, which was only stated in promotional stuff that have been wrong before, is already contradicted by the series itself, so it most likely still takes place 4 years after Boo's death, like BoG.

The narrator says it takes place a little while after they wished for Buu to be forgotten by the people of earth and with the DB activated it probably takes place a year later at most.

[dbzfan7]

Jury's out for me til they decide to answer the question or not in the series.

[supercat]

If Goku kept his SSG power up, I wouldn't be surprised if Uub sat in the same realm of power as Final Form Frieza (FnF), who I believe would perceive SSJ Vegetto (Buu arc) as one-shot material. It's absolutely astonishing to believe that a child with zero experience could wield that kind of power, even if he formerly was Kid Buu. That said, Goku retaining his SSG power is the only thing that would justify Uub having that level of power in my opinion.

Going strictly by the original manga, I find it extremely unlikely that Uub was even anywhere near Kid Buu, as this would mean Base Goku was able to reach SSJ3 tier without the assistance of SSG and/or Whis' training. To me, going from being weaker than Frieza to suddenly being able to fight on par with a Kid Buu tier fighter in a span of ten years just doesn't seem very feasible.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The narrator says it takes place a little while after they wished for Buu to be forgotten by the people of earth and with the DB activated it probably takes place a year later at most.

The narrator says that "some time" passed after the wish, which could be a few years.

[h0kuten]

There is no reason to think Uub needs to be as powerful as the Saiyan Gods. He could be as wimpy as Kid Buu, to begin with, and be trained up from Goku.