What's Wrong With Goku in the Buu Saga?

[Lord Beerus]

Goku's lesson of letting the living solve their own problems because some dead guy can't always come to save the world is sound. The problem is a DEAD GUY was responsible for this problem in the first place. That dead guy was Goku. It was Goku's fault, and he's trying to pass it off as a living world affair that he helped cause. If Goku were in the other world and this happened, I'd be more understanding of his stance. He and Vegeta caused the problem, so Goku really shoulda just fixed the problem he caused since he was more than capable of doing it. I'd be more understanding of Goku if say he couldn't fix the problem, so he had to rely on the others. Say if SSJ3 would burn out his time on earth, faster than he could kill Boo. So then he'd be no help to anyone. However Goku makes it clear that he could have one shotted Vegeta and put a stop to Boo. So he comes off as someone with good intentions, but totally misguided.

I don't think we should put the blame squarely on Goku. Quite a few people were culpable for Majin Boo's resurrection, Vegeta, Kaioshin and even Gohan were at fault, too. It was just a case of bad decision making and planning from everyone.

[Cipher]

That's why I said in my original post that Goku tries to be mature while still being true to his nature. His nature being someone obsessed with battle and a dumbass.

Yep. I think it's almost impossible to read the saga without a hint that Goku is interested in the next generation as much to stave off his own boredom as to protect the Earth (which is why his finding a healthy outlet in Oob is absolutely a functional end for the series).

And don't get me wrong -- I love hyper-bored, dangerous Goku. He has a fascinating arc over the course of the series. I understand how the poor decision-making in the Boo arc could be frustrating to some, but everyone's so sure of themselves by that point that everything seems in character (and they're punished for it constantly). Works great as a final arc.

I don't think we should put the blame squarely on Goku. Quite a few people were culpable for Majin Boo's resurrection, Vegeta, Kaioshin and even Gohan were at fault, too. It was just a case of bad decision making and planning from everyone.

I think principally the blame falls on Vegeta and Goku, but yeah, that's reductive. Kaioshin is underprepared and doesn't understand the Saiyans. Goku and Vegeta are ... Goku and Vegeta, Vegeta feeling at this point like he has one chance in life to regain his self-worth, and Gohan plays along with their insane game in the hopes of pleasing his father (until it becomes evident they're in danger).

[dbzfan7]

Goku's lesson of letting the living solve their own problems because some dead guy can't always come to save the world is sound. The problem is a DEAD GUY was responsible for this problem in the first place. That dead guy was Goku. It was Goku's fault, and he's trying to pass it off as a living world affair that he helped cause. If Goku were in the other world and this happened, I'd be more understanding of his stance. He and Vegeta caused the problem, so Goku really shoulda just fixed the problem he caused since he was more than capable of doing it. I'd be more understanding of Goku if say he couldn't fix the problem, so he had to rely on the others. Say if SSJ3 would burn out his time on earth, faster than he could kill Boo. So then he'd be no help to anyone. However Goku makes it clear that he could have one shotted Vegeta and put a stop to Boo. So he comes off as someone with good intentions, but totally misguided.

I don't think we should put the blame squarely on Goku. Quite a few people were culpable for Majin Boo's resurrection, Vegeta, Kaioshin and even Gohan were at fault, too. It was just a case of bad decision making and planning from everyone.

Doesn't matter how many people could have thought differently. In the end Goku had the power to put a stop to everything, and chose not to for misguided reasoning. He had the power to stop Fat Boo from being born. He had the power to KO Vegeta easily so their energy couldn't be given to Boo. He could have beaten Boo at full power even if everything else transpired. In the end he passed on it and misguidedly tried to push the youth into taking care of a problem he should have stopped. It's almost as stupid as God not putting a stop to Daimao when that was all his own fault.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku's lesson of letting the living solve their own problems because some dead guy can't always come to save the world is sound. The problem is a DEAD GUY was responsible for this problem in the first place. That dead guy was Goku. It was Goku's fault, and he's trying to pass it off as a living world affair that he helped cause. If Goku were in the other world and this happened, I'd be more understanding of his stance. He and Vegeta caused the problem, so Goku really shoulda just fixed the problem he caused since he was more than capable of doing it. I'd be more understanding of Goku if say he couldn't fix the problem, so he had to rely on the others. Say if SSJ3 would burn out his time on earth, faster than he could kill Boo. So then he'd be no help to anyone. However Goku makes it clear that he could have one shotted Vegeta and put a stop to Boo. So he comes off as someone with good intentions, but totally misguided.

I don't think we should put the blame squarely on Goku. Quite a few people were culpable for Majin Boo's resurrection, Vegeta, Kaioshin and even Gohan were at fault, too. It was just a case of bad decision making and planning from everyone.

Doesn't matter how many people could have thought differently. In the end Goku had the power to put a stop to everything, and chose not to for misguided reasoning. He had the power to stop Fat Boo from being born. He had the power to KO Vegeta easily so their energy couldn't be given to Boo. He could have beaten Boo at full power even if everything else transpired. In the end he passed on it and misguidedly tried to push the youth into taking care of a problem he should have stopped. It's almost as stupid as God not putting a stop to Daimao when that was all his own fault.

Gohan also had the power to kill Dabra which would have lead to Babidi not knowing that Vegeta would have been the perfect candidate for his Majin mind control, and as result, Majin Vegeta never happens, Goku and Vegeta don't fight, no energy is given to Majin Boo's resurrection, Majin Boo is never born and the arc ends right there. But no one ever brings that up. Nope. It's all Goku's fault.

[Saiga]

Gohan also had the power to kill Dabra which would have lead to Babidi not knowing that Vegeta would have been the perfect candidate for his Majin mind control, and as result, Majin Vegeta never happens, Goku and Vegeta don't fight, no energy is given to Majin Boo's resurrection, Majin Boo is never born and the arc ends right there. But no one ever brings that up. Nope. It's all Goku's fault.

No-one brings it up because it's simply not true.

Gohan was trying to defeat Dabra, he hadn't succeeded. He never showed the ability to kill Dabra as easily as Goku could have handled anything else. Hell, Gohan was the weakest of those three, so why the hell would you hold him responsible for defeating Dabra? If he could do it, then Goku or Vegeta could have done it and cleaner.

Maybe he could have killed Dabra if the fight had continued. But it wasn't allowed to continue because Vegeta interrupted it.

[DBZAOTA482]

No, it's all Kaioshin's fault. He never bothered doing any research on Earth (the planet where he left Majin Boo's Egg) and made everything harder than it needs to be.

He's the true villain of the Majin Boo Saga.

[ekrolo2]

No, it's all Kaioshin's fault. He never bothered doing any research on Earth (the planet where he left Majin Boo's Egg) and made everything harder than it needs to be.

He's the true villain of the Majin Boo Saga.

Exactly. He constantly makes bad calls and underestimates the same people he's asking for help saying the need to team up for guys like Yakon and Pui Pui. Vegeta should've told him to piss off and blow the ship instead of listening to him.

[Lord Beerus]

Gohan also had the power to kill Dabra which would have lead to Babidi not knowing that Vegeta would have been the perfect candidate for his Majin mind control, and as result, Majin Vegeta never happens, Goku and Vegeta don't fight, no energy is given to Majin Boo's resurrection, Majin Boo is never born and the arc ends right there. But no one ever brings that up. Nope. It's all Goku's fault.

No-one brings it up because it's simply not true.

Gohan was trying to defeat Dabra, he hadn't succeeded. He never showed the ability to kill Dabra as easily as Goku could have handled anything else. Hell, Gohan was the weakest of those three, so why the hell would you hold him responsible for defeating Dabra? If he could do it, then Goku or Vegeta could have done it and cleaner.

Maybe he could have killed Dabra if the fight had continued. But it wasn't allowed to continue because Vegeta interrupted it.

Then he should have just transformed into a SSJ2 from the get-go and slaughtered Dabra instantly. But doesn't do that and he instead turns into a Super Saiyan, why? Because he can't get "angry" anymore? Even though he transforms into a SSJ2 against Kibito easily at the World Martial Art Tournament only a few minutes before he fights Dabra?

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

He was a bit of an asshole... and a major idiot.

How what did he do wrong?

-Was calm (or at least more than he should be) about letting Spopovich and Yamu steal Gohan's energy even though he has no idea why they want it.
-Made a game out of fighting Babidi's minions even though Kaioshin was crying for him and the other two Saiyans to take the job seriously.
-Accepted Majin Vegeta's challenge to fight him one-on-one instead of seeking help from the others.
-Entrusted the fate of the entire universe to two non-warrior children (though this one's a little more understandable than most of the shit he pulled).
-Bribing Elder Kaioshin with x-rated photos of his son's girlfriend, and his longest and (second) closest friend while insulting his wive's figure.

- It was at a tournament, he seems to respect the rules more so than he should logically. (Cell games) but he also trusted Supreme kai on Piccolo not attacking him and by his title.

- He cared more about seeing how strong Vegeta & Gohan were for the day he could, and Babidi kept him curious. He always likes provoking the worst just to see how far the other characters will go to show their true potential.

- He only did after Vegeta killed people again and explained why it had to be just Goku. (Swatting Gohan out of the way)

- Goku only sees power, nothing more. Just like with Gohan, he them as tools. Take that for what you will.

- Very dragonball.

I found Goku to be fairly in-character in the Buu saga, but yes a bit calmer than usual throughout. Then again, he's the same guy that would just watch Beerus from another planet away beat up all his friends just to see how strong he was.

[Kamiccolo9]

Gohan also had the power to kill Dabra which would have lead to Babidi not knowing that Vegeta would have been the perfect candidate for his Majin mind control, and as result, Majin Vegeta never happens, Goku and Vegeta don't fight, no energy is given to Majin Boo's resurrection, Majin Boo is never born and the arc ends right there. But no one ever brings that up. Nope. It's all Goku's fault.

No-one brings it up because it's simply not true.

Gohan was trying to defeat Dabra, he hadn't succeeded. He never showed the ability to kill Dabra as easily as Goku could have handled anything else. Hell, Gohan was the weakest of those three, so why the hell would you hold him responsible for defeating Dabra? If he could do it, then Goku or Vegeta could have done it and cleaner.

Maybe he could have killed Dabra if the fight had continued. But it wasn't allowed to continue because Vegeta interrupted it.

And even there, Vegeta wanted to jump in and just wipe out Dabura, and Goku wouldn't let him because "Gohan hadn't had his turn yet."]

For that whole section of the arc, either Vegeta or Kaioshin's plan would have worked just fine, were it not for Goku. Vegeta wanted to just nuke the place, and they could have handled a weakened Buu, or at least Goku could have. Kaioshin's plan was working fine until Goku and Vegeta's lovers' quarrel fucked it up. The common denominator here is Goku deciding to waste time having fun with the situation, which is totally in-character, but not particularly smart, nor does it endear me to the character in any way. He's a dick.

[DB1984]

Goku was such a pretentious and selfish asshole. Vegeta was right in berating him for not saving his kids, when Majin Buu was about to blow up the Earth.

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku was such a pretentious and selfish asshole. Vegeta was right in berating him for not saving his kids, when Majin Buu was about to blow up the Earth.

This, I actually don't have a problem with. Goku tried to save everyone, and failed. That's more relatable than the rest of the general fuckery he's got going on during the arc.

[ekrolo2]

Goku was such a pretentious and selfish asshole. Vegeta was right in berating him for not saving his kids, when Majin Buu was about to blow up the Earth.

This, I actually don't have a problem with. Goku tried to save everyone, and failed. That's more relatable than the rest of the general fuckery he's got going on during the arc.

Couldn't he have just used IT to get everyone?

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku was such a pretentious and selfish asshole. Vegeta was right in berating him for not saving his kids, when Majin Buu was about to blow up the Earth.

This, I actually don't have a problem with. Goku tried to save everyone, and failed. That's more relatable than the rest of the general fuckery he's got going on during the arc.

Couldn't he have just used IT to get everyone?

Nah, he couldn't concentrate to use it during Buu's attack. That's why Kibitoshin had to intervene and save them.

[ekrolo2]

Couldn't he have just used IT to get everyone?

Nah, he couldn't concentrate to use it during Buu's attack. That's why Kibitoshin had to intervene and save them.

The concentration seems to only be a problem when the balls actually really close to him, before that he had a good window of opportunity to still use it but I guess Toriyama couldn't bullshit a way for Kid Buu to manhandle Gohan & Gotenks and have Goku still kill him.

[Kamiccolo9]

The concentration seems to only be a problem when the balls actually really close to him, before that he had a good window of opportunity to still use it but I guess Toriyama couldn't bullshit a way for Kid Buu to manhandle Gohan & Gotenks and have Goku still kill him.

I don't know what to tell you, then. The story has a ready-made answer to your problem. If you don't want to accept it, then so be it, but it's right there.

[Doctor.]

He only had enough time to teleport once. If he teleported to Gohan & co, they would have died with the planet.

Spoiler:

[TheGreatness25]

What's wrong with Goku?

"I'm weaker than Boo! There's no way to defeat Boo! I can't beat him now and not risk everyone potentially getting wiped off the face of the Earth! Oh no, never mind, I lied to give the kids a shot! Ain't I a stinker?"

[FortuneSSJ]

He was a bit of an asshole... and a major idiot.

Well, thats Goku. Everything seems right.

[Saiga]

Gohan also had the power to kill Dabra which would have lead to Babidi not knowing that Vegeta would have been the perfect candidate for his Majin mind control, and as result, Majin Vegeta never happens, Goku and Vegeta don't fight, no energy is given to Majin Boo's resurrection, Majin Boo is never born and the arc ends right there. But no one ever brings that up. Nope. It's all Goku's fault.

No-one brings it up because it's simply not true.

Gohan was trying to defeat Dabra, he hadn't succeeded. He never showed the ability to kill Dabra as easily as Goku could have handled anything else. Hell, Gohan was the weakest of those three, so why the hell would you hold him responsible for defeating Dabra? If he could do it, then Goku or Vegeta could have done it and cleaner.

Maybe he could have killed Dabra if the fight had continued. But it wasn't allowed to continue because Vegeta interrupted it.

Then he should have just transformed into a SSJ2 from the get-go and slaughtered Dabra instantly. But doesn't do that and he instead turns into a Super Saiyan, why? Because he can't get "angry" anymore? Even though he transforms into a SSJ2 against Kibito easily at the World Martial Art Tournament only a few minutes before he fights Dabra?

You're making a huge assumption that he could have done that at any time. And the whole thing is a huge controversy with no clear answer, so you won't gain anything trying to argue that point.