Dropped plots?

Nekoni · Post by **Nekoni** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:16 pm

*checks anime for a written 'buu'*

'Buu'/'ブウ' ^_^ yay, I'm not crazy.

I asked about 'Boo' because it's similar to france's 'Booboo' which also means 'ouchie'.. (OT, Janempa is ridiculously close to 'Je n'aime pas' and Chichi means fussy *wonders if AT used french for her name*) Personaly I prefer the japanese spellings to the american ones, 'Taresu' 'Kakarotto', they sound so much nicer..

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:23 pm

The Lecherous Muten Roshi wrote:I know that Boo had a bar of soap with "Boo" written on it, but did he have anything else like that? I assumed that (or something like that) was the reason behind the spelling.

At the Tenkaichi tournament, fans in the crowd also cheer for Boo, with signs with his name spelled that way too.

El_Diablo · Post by **El_Diablo** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:39 pm

Plus there's the fact that Viz used it in the manga, there's not really a "uu" spelling for that sound in English and so forth.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:59 am

Not adding much here but the carton of milk that Buu gives to the blind boy said Boo milk so yeah, legit spelling considering the pun.

Vaeran · Post by **Vaeran** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:02 am

One idea that Toriyama played with for a while and then dropped was that if a character watching a battle wasn't sufficiently powerful/trained, he wouldn't even be able to see the combatants, just an empty battlefield. I think it's only really used in the 23rd Budokai and the Saiyajin arc. I just noticed this today while re-reading the Cell Games - Mr. Satan and the TV reporter are watching Goku and Cell fight it out, and they're both able to follow the battle. I guess either Toriyama forgot about this idea entirely, or just decided it would be too troublesome to keep using in the story.

ngnikolaos · Post by **ngnikolaos** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:42 am

Vaeran wrote:One idea that Toriyama played with for a while and then dropped was that if a character watching a battle wasn't sufficiently powerful/trained, he wouldn't even be able to see the combatants, just an empty battlefield. I think it's only really used in the 23rd Budokai and the Saiyajin arc. I just noticed this today while re-reading the Cell Games - Mr. Satan and the TV reporter are watching Goku and Cell fight it out, and they're both able to follow the battle. I guess either Toriyama forgot about this idea entirely, or just decided it would be too troublesome to keep using in the story.

I think that's mostly due to the fact that A.T. wanted to end the series in the 23rd Budokai, and as a result, wanted to give readers the impression that the Z-Team (mostly Goku though) "has reached its peak". That is, Goku didn't have any more room for improvement. However, since the series continued, A.T. probably took that feature away, because he wanted to show readers that there is still room for improvement.

As for the Saiyan arc, it only happens when Yamcha fights the Saibaiman, and it happens to show you that Gohan isn't using his full potential (received by Piccolo's training) yet.

Afterwards, the "so-fast-I-can't-see-him" feature is basically used when the enemy's power level is so much higher than his opponent (like the time when Piccolo "fails" to see Freeza's fingerblast that kills Dende).

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:33 am

I don't know if they changed it in your dub- (You spell Buu oddly, what language do you watch?) but in the japanese version they went on about how Kid Buu was even -stronger- than all previous Buus... so quite the reverse to what you said.

Actually, no. There's a big fuss about him being the most dangerous. What with him having no restraints. The other Buu's were out to have fun/test their strength while this version just wants to smash stuff. Kid Buu, however, is not stronger than Super Buu and can't be, as Goku wasn't even entirely sure he could beat Fat Buu at full power.

I think that's mostly due to the fact that A.T. wanted to end the series in the 23rd Budokai,

I've seen people mention this but have yet to see any actual evidence that it's true. From what I've read, his planned stopping points: Right after Pilaf, after Namek/Freeza, and after the Cell Games. Not counting the alterations made during the Android/Buu arcs and the discarded endings that would have resulted without those changes.

Nekoni · Post by **Nekoni** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:41 am

Goku and Vegeta sense Buu's ki
Vegeta: Impossible...
Goku: Hey Vegeta.. That means Buu is gaining power!
Vegeta: I-Impossible!

That's what I've got for Buu's ki *tilts head*

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:01 am

Nekoni wrote:Goku and Vegeta sense Buu's ki
Vegeta: Impossible...
Goku: Hey Vegeta.. That means Buu is gaining power!
Vegeta: I-Impossible!

That's what I've got for Buu's ki *tilts head*

You left out the part where Boo suddenly stops turning into the "Buff Boo" and reverts into Chibi Boo, at which point Goku and Vegeta point and laugh hysterically.

(Please do not say "they were laughing at his size", because saying such would completely ignore what happened when Freeza transformed into his final stage.)

There clearly was an inbetween phase between "Super" Boo and Chibi Boo, which is also elaborated upon in a Filler. This in-between phase was the one exhibiting an increasing Ki, not Chibi Boo.

Moving on...

Why does anyone care how "Boo/Buu" is spelled? Spelling preference doesn't mean crap - lay off.

Also, why the sudden use by a couple members of "A.T."?

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One tidbit at the end of the 23'rd Tenka'ichi Budokai that tickled me was Kami-sama's offer to Goku to become the new god. One can only imagine what that would have led to.

But I doubt Toriyama-sensei intended such a thing in the first place, so I guess it doesn't count as a "dropped plot".

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:36 pm

Nekoni wrote:Goku and Vegeta sense Buu's ki
Vegeta: Impossible...
Goku: Hey Vegeta.. That means Buu is gaining power!
Vegeta: I-Impossible!

That's what I've got for Buu's ki *tilts head*

This just means buff Boo was stonger than the evil (Super) Boo. I don't know exactly how strong the pure/chibi/kid Boo is, but he's pretty much got to be weaker than the Gotenks and Gohan Boos. That's for sure.

Vaeran · Post by **Vaeran** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:54 pm

Duo wrote: Also, why the sudden use by a couple members of "A.T."?

Because Mr. Toriyama is their homie, duh. They chill together on the weekends, have barbecues, you know.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:11 pm

ngnikolaos wrote:I think that's mostly due to the fact that A.T. wanted to end the series in the 23rd Budokai, and as a result, wanted to give readers the impression that the Z-Team (mostly Goku though) "has reached its peak". That is, Goku didn't have any more room for improvement. However, since the series continued, A.T. probably took that feature away, because he wanted to show readers that there is still room for improvement.

Wait, so... how many times did Toriyama want to end the series now?

With all these speculations, it's going to sound like Toriyama wanted to end the series after drawing the first panel of DB.

"I had to draw an extra line because the producer pressured me to".

ngnikolaos · Post by **ngnikolaos** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:51 pm

Duo wrote:Also, why the sudden use by a couple members of "A.T."?

For short (for my part). Nothing more. Why, do I have to pay a fine? How many times do you call your president just "Bush" or something? Do you always call him "Mr George Bush", or "the President of the United States"? Mr, Sir, or whatever usually go when you specifically speak to the said person, at least most of the time. It's not a matter of respect, it's a matter of use of language.

Unless of course, one of Vegetto EX's Laws is to address him as Mr Akira Toriyama... last time I checked there wasn't such thing, but I'm always open to new ideas and things....

Nekoni · Post by **Nekoni** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:05 pm

This just means buff Boo was stonger than the evil (Super) Boo. I don't know exactly how strong the pure/chibi/kid Boo is, but he's pretty much got to be weaker than the Gotenks and Gohan Boos. That's for sure.

'buff Boo' was just eased in as transformation to Kid Buu. It's all we have to go by for Kid Buu's power. I'm pretty sure that Kid Buu is more powerful than the other Buus; but evidence either way is inconclusive.

As for fat Buu's power... Goku could've beat him, I believe. He didn't leave that fight for being too beaten =D

Also, why the sudden use by a couple members of "A.T."?

Force of habbit for me. It's an abrieviation we've taken up on another board I visit, it's easier to type than 'Akira Toriyama' n'est pas?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:58 pm

'buff Boo' was just eased in as transformation to Kid Buu. It's all we have to go by for Kid Buu's power. I'm pretty sure that Kid Buu is more powerful than the other Buus; but evidence either way is inconclusive.

As for fat Buu's power... Goku could've beat him, I believe. He didn't leave that fight for being too beaten =D

Actually, they make that statement over Buff Buu, and then don't look nearly as worried over Kid Buu. And the evidence stands clearly that Kid Buu is weaker as Goku wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds against Super Buu but managed to fight fairly evenly with Kid Buu.

And no, he didn't leave the fight because he was beaten. True. However, he later stated that he wasn't sure he could have beaten Buu anyway, even if he had tried.

ngnikolaos · Post by **ngnikolaos** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:49 pm

Xyex wrote:And no, he didn't leave the fight because he was beaten. True. However, he later stated that he wasn't sure he could have beaten Buu anyway, even if he had tried.

Forgive me if I'm wrong (I am not well-versed in the Buu saga), but didn't Goku state that he could've taken fat Buu, but decided he wanted Goten and Trunks to have a crack at it?

Anyway, I always came to think that Kid Buu was the strongest of the Buus. No evidence, it's just that when the first thing that Kid Buu did was to destroy the Earth and foce the Saiyans into a retreat, he gave me the "Ultimate Menace" vibe pretty damn well.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:44 pm

ngnikolaos wrote:
Xyex wrote:And no, he didn't leave the fight because he was beaten. True. However, he later stated that he wasn't sure he could have beaten Buu anyway, even if he had tried.
Forgive me if I'm wrong (I am not well-versed in the Buu saga), but didn't Goku state that he could've taken fat Buu, but decided he wanted Goten and Trunks to have a crack at it?

Anyway, I always came to think that Kid Buu was the strongest of the Buus. No evidence, it's just that when the first thing that Kid Buu did was to destroy the Earth and foce the Saiyans into a retreat, he gave me the "Ultimate Menace" vibe pretty damn well.

Piccolo asked him if he could have won in SSJ3 and He said, and I'm paraphrasing here: "I don't think so. Majin Buu's amazing. I don't think I could win."

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:02 pm

Xyex wrote:Piccolo asked him if he could have won in SSJ3 and He said, and I'm hparaphrasing here: "I don't think so. Majin Buu's amazing. I don't think I could win."

But doesn't he later tell Vegeta he could've beaten Fat Buu?

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:18 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Xyex wrote:Piccolo asked him if he could have won in SSJ3 and He said, and I'm hparaphrasing here: "I don't think so. Majin Buu's amazing. I don't think I could win."
But doesn't he later tell Vegeta he could've beaten Fat Buu?

Yeah.

The quick answer is Goku wasn't sure if he could win or not.

Nekoni · Post by **Nekoni** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:16 pm

Yeah.

The quick answer is Goku wasn't sure if he could win or not.

Fighting- even if you are stronger than your opponent, get too full of yourself and you can lose.

Actually, they make that statement over Buff Buu, and then don't look nearly as worried over Kid Buu. And the evidence stands clearly that Kid Buu is weaker as Goku wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds against Super Buu but managed to fight fairly evenly with Kid Buu.

They start ridiculing him because he's got smaller. Not because his ki's suddenly dropped.

The amount of time one fighter lasts against another isn't a good way to test powerlevels. Surely Mr Satan is a prime example of -that- little clause.