Dropped plots?

[Thanos6]

Are there any things in the manga that seem to be leading toward one thing, but end up going another, and hint toward a dropped plotline to you?

For example, Mirai talking about "Androids 19 and 20" is the famous example, since after Toriyama's editor twisted his arm to make those two just warm-ups that makes no sense unless you invent an explanation that Mirai misspoke.

The one I'm thinking of right now is on Namek. Goku vs. Ginyu. Goku notes that Ginyu is a "better person" than his teammates, Ginyu forces Jeice out of the fight after he tries to help and seems to be pretty fair and honorable...it seemed to be leading up to Ginyu pulling a Vegeta and joining their side. But then we got body changing.

Maybe it's just me, but...

Anyone else? Any others?

[Jodaku]

This is fairly well known, but Gohan after his power up from the elder Kaioshin was supposed to be the one to defeat Buu and Goku was meant to stay dead. Apparently fan/editor pressure made Toriyama bring back Goku and made him the main hero again.

It's a shame really, Gohan was such a friggin badass at that point too (do I even dare say more so than his SSJ2 self as a child?), it would've been cool if ihe had finished off Buu, but then again, I really love the Goku/Vegeta/Kid Buu stuff, however Gohan is my favourite character... so I'm kinda torn on what I would've preferred.

Edit:

Actually it would've been better for the series as a whole if Gohan had defeated Buu. It would've carried on the theme that the Buu saga was heading towards of letting the next generation defend the planet for themselves (as well as a continuation of the 'passing of the torch' theme from the Cell saga), and that touching scene with Goku and Gohan before Gohan returned to earth would've meant more if they wern't reunited half a dozen chapters later.

[desirecampbell]

^^ My thoughts exactly. I always thought it was pretty lame that Gohan didn't defeat Buu, I hate it when authors are pressured to change the story from "something logical" to "something the fans want". I liked the Goku/Vegeta/Buu stuff - and I love Vegetto - but I always felt cheated when Gohab got knocked around so easily when he's supposed to be super-badass now.

Some say the Genki-Dama from everyone, Vegeta helping out - reincarnating Buu thing was more poinient - but it could've been even better for Gohan vs Buu.

Imaging Buu mocking Gohan, saying Piccolo's inside him - he knows Gohan's just a scared little boy, he's too late to save his sensei, his brother, his friends and his father. Imagine Gohan frowning, appearing behind Buu, grabbing his antenee-thing and throwing him through the planet. Buu pops out the other side, Gohan's already there "You don't get to speak those names." and totally just starts crushing him. Just bit-by-bit completely destroying him.
You could put that "Buu re-incarnated immediately" thing in again - hell, how awesome would it be for Gohan to train Uub? Gohan would go from child, to student, to warrior, to teacher (like Goku did, but just for DBZ).

[Tsukento]

The problem with Gohan training Oob lies in a few factors. Gohan's expressed quite a number of times that he doesn't like to fight like his father does. He wishes to become a scholar (which he did). The only reason Gohan fought was because he had to, rather than wanting to. He had to fight the Saiyans. He had to fight Freeza and his men. He had to fight Cell. And he had to fight Majin Boo.

Not to mention, by the time Majin Boo has been reincarnated, Gohan returned to a life of study rather than martial arts. He even developed a relationship with Videl and married while then having a daughter.

Goku fit better for the role of training Oob since he was the one who wanted to fight Boo again, only as a good guy. Plus, as Piccolo mentioned, Goku was really happy when it came to fighting with Oob.

[ngnikolaos]

For example, Mirai talking about "Androids 19 and 20" is the famous example, since after Toriyama's editor twisted his arm to make those two just warm-ups that makes no sense unless you invent an explanation that Mirai misspoke.

Does anyone know Akira Toriyama's TRUE intentions for androids #19 and #20? Were they to be the ones that killed the Z fighters? That is, were they to take android #17 and #18's roles?

Was Cell destined to absorb his "father?"

[Nekoni]

I can't figure out where the drama'd come from if Gohan beat Buu =D would he attain SSJ3? T'is mysterious! I prefer the Goku-inclusive ending though.. it woulda' been cool if Gohan'd been taken to the kai's planet to help out.

I know of another! At the very start of DBZ, Vegeta and Nappa discuis how a half-saiyan (with their unusual power) may be the key to the super-saiyan legend. Now some argue this insinuates Vegeta would be the SSJ- ( ) or that he's planning kids already ( ) but personaly I think it means Akira Toriyama was planning to bestow the Super Saiyan honour on Gohan...

[Domon]

For example, Mirai talking about "Androids 19 and 20" is the famous example, since after Toriyama's editor twisted his arm to make those two just warm-ups that makes no sense unless you invent an explanation that Mirai misspoke.

Does anyone know Akira Toriyama's TRUE intentions for androids #19 and #20? Were they to be the ones that killed the Z fighters? That is, were they to take android #17 and #18's roles?

Was Cell destined to absorb his "father?"

Short version of the story: He originally only had #19 and #20 in mind. His editor thought it was lame, and so #17 and #18 and later Cell were made up. Editor thought Cell looked lame, so Perfect Cell was made.

[Duo]

Was Cell destined to absorb his "father?"

Cell wasn't thought up until or soon after the Introduction of the "younger, cooler artificial humans" that the Shonen Jump editor wanted.

I can't figure out where the drama'd come from if Gohan beat Buu =D would he attain SSJ3? T'is mysterious! I prefer the Goku-inclusive ending though.. it woulda' been cool if Gohan'd been taken to the kai's planet to help out.

How would attaining Ssj3 help Gohan at all? He was already much stronger than any Super Saiyan of any level to ever exist (until Vegetto came along).

And bringing him to fight Chibi Boo would've made the battle extremely short and boring.

I know of another! At the very start of DBZ, Vegeta and Nappa discuis how a half-saiyan (with their unusual power) may be the key to the super-saiyan legend. Now some argue this insinuates Vegeta would be the SSJ- ( Shocked ) or that he's planning kids already ( Shocked ) but personaly I think it means Akira Toriyama was planning to bestow the Super Saiyan honour on Gohan...

Eh, not likely. I'll post the exact dialogue.

Vegeta - "It seems that mixing Saiyan and Earthling blood begets a powerful hybrid..."

Nappa - "A Super Saiyan, eh? So if we spawn a flock of them ourselves...we could build another Sayan empire!"

Vegeta - "Don't be stupid. Do you want a lot of ingrate brats running around with powers greater than ours?"


His use of the term "Super Saiyan" doesn't seem at all geared towards the line of thought behind it during the Namek arc. He uses the term very lightly, and moreso to say "A greater type of Saiyan, eh?" rather than what would eventually become a famous term for the Legendary Transformation.

--------------------------

Now that I've done all that...

I think that the Chibi Boo fight ended up being very entertaining and well put together, especially with the fact that Goku really didn't do the majority of the fighting, but just sat there gathering Ki for Ssj3 or the Genki-Dama.

However, it was so obvious that Gohan was supposed to get the spotlight. Toriyama-sensei even had to create a new, much weaker Boo in order for Goku and Vegeta to stand a chance (unfused). I don't know what he had in mind for Gohan, since he no longer had any sort of restraints and had the depths of his potential unlocked, leaving...nothing to make him any stronger in a short period of time. Perhaps his original idea was for Boo + Gotenks/Piccolo to match evenly against Gohan?

Let the speculation continue!

[Castor Troy]

I know of another! At the very start of DBZ, Vegeta and Nappa discuis how a half-saiyan (with their unusual power) may be the key to the super-saiyan legend. Now some argue this insinuates Vegeta would be the SSJ- ( Shocked ) or that he's planning kids already ( Shocked ) but personaly I think it means Akira Toriyama was planning to bestow the Super Saiyan honour on Gohan...

Eh, not likely. I'll post the exact dialogue.

Vegeta - "It seems that mixing Saiyan and Earthling blood begets a powerful hybrid..."

Nappa - "A Super Saiyan, eh? So if we spawn a flock of them ourselves...we could build another Sayan empire!"

Vegeta - "Don't be stupid. Do you want a lot of ingrate brats running around with powers greater than ours?"


His use of the term "Super Saiyan" doesn't seem at all geared towards the line of thought behind it during the Namek arc. He uses the term very lightly, and moreso to say "A greater type of Saiyan, eh?" rather than what would eventually become a famous term for the Legendary Transformation.

It would have been funny to see Nappa and Vegeta trying to pimp earth women instead of blowing them up.

[Xyex]

However, it was so obvious that Gohan was supposed to get the spotlight. Toriyama-sensei even had to create a new, much weaker Boo in order for Goku and Vegeta to stand a chance (unfused). I don't know what he had in mind for Gohan, since he no longer had any sort of restraints and had the depths of his potential unlocked, leaving...nothing to make him any stronger in a short period of time. Perhaps his original idea was for Boo + Gotenks/Piccolo to match evenly against Gohan?

I never gave that a thought, always figured it was just going to be Super Buu that Gohan beat, not Super Buu2. But that would have made for a good ending. Especially Gohan needing to deal with the fact that defeating Buu also meant killing Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo.

[Saiyan]

I would have liked Gohan to kill Buu, especially the fact that he was wearing Goku's gi, taking Goku's place. Even PIccolo mistakened him for Goku.

I also noticed how Goku magically returned to Earth on Ginyu's ship, even though when Namek blew up, he was screaming.

[DaemonCorps]

I also noticed how Goku magically returned to Earth on Ginyu's ship, even though when Namek blew up, he was screaming.

Well, you could get away with saying that Goku was just freaking out and he didn't actually die like how they explained it in the manga. Right after he screamed, he noticed Ginyu's space pod and used it to leave.

[Eat Snow]

Was Cell destined to absorb his "father?"

Cell wasn't thought up until or soon after the Introduction of the "younger, cooler artificial humans" that the Shonen Jump editor wanted.

Pretty much correct, there. This was originally posted by DBW on a topic called Manga Contradiction...

Yuu Kondo (2nd Editor) and Kazuhiko Torishima (1st Editor)

Toriyama: You're saying that Torishima? That's terrible. Remember that time Artificial Humans 19 and 20 appeared? You weren't in the management position at the time, but you called me at my house and said, "Mr. Toriyama, after waiting for the enemy, it turns out to be just an old man and a fat guy." (laughing) Truth is, we had only planned to use 19 and 20. We had another choice, so we sent 17 and 18. And you said, "I'm dissapointed, they're just kids.". So I sent Cell.

Takeda: You mean you didn't plan to send Cell?

Toriyama: That's right. I liked 19 and 20. Later I ended up liking 1st Stage Cell.

Takeda: That bug? You liked that bug?

[Tsukento]

As I recall from an oooooold Animerica which was pretty much a translation of a Toriyama interview done years ago (I think it was in a Daizenshuu), Toriyama mentioned that he made his characters transform whenever his editor didn't like how they looked. :s

[Nekoni]

How would attaining Ssj3 help Gohan at all? He was already much stronger than any Super Saiyan of any level to ever exist (until Vegetto came along).

I mean, it looses that 'desperate, new attack' plot twist Akira Toriyama's renowned for using- I'm trying to think -which- twist he'd use (without drama the battle'd be boring) Lets face it, it's not his style for an easy battle.

Eh, not likely. I'll post the exact dialogue.

Vegeta - "It seems that mixing Saiyan and Earthling blood begets a powerful hybrid..."

Nappa - "A Super Saiyan, eh? So if we spawn a flock of them ourselves...we could build another Sayan empire!"

Vegeta - "Don't be stupid. Do you want a lot of ingrate brats running around with powers greater than ours?"


His use of the term "Super Saiyan" doesn't seem at all geared towards the line of thought behind it during the Namek arc. He uses the term very lightly, and moreso to say "A greater type of Saiyan, eh?" rather than what would eventually become a famous term for the Legendary Transformation.

Did I insinuate that? I'm pretty sure I didn't. I said it sounded like Akira Toriyama was leaning towards making -Gohan- the super saiyan, not that he was insinuating it had blond spiky hair and a gold aura. *blank look*

However, it was so obvious that Gohan was supposed to get the spotlight. Toriyama-sensei even had to create a new, much weaker Boo in order for Goku and Vegeta to stand a chance (unfused). I don't know what he had in mind for Gohan, since he no longer had any sort of restraints and had the depths of his potential unlocked, leaving...nothing to make him any stronger in a short period of time. Perhaps his original idea was for Boo + Gotenks/Piccolo to match evenly against Gohan?

I don't know if they changed it in your dub- (You spell Buu oddly, what language do you watch?) but in the japanese version they went on about how Kid Buu was even -stronger- than all previous Buus... so quite the reverse to what you said.

[Casual Matt]

(You spell Buu oddly, what language do you watch?)

The subbed Japanese version on the FUNi discs spell it "Majin Boo".

[Chaos Saiyajin]

(You spell Buu oddly, what language do you watch?)

The subbed Japanese version on the FUNi discs spell it "Majin Boo".

And they spell 'Uub' as 'Oob'.

'Boo' and 'Oob' just look retarded spelled like this, if you ask me.

Anyway...

I would've loved to have seen Gohan step up in Goku's role and destroy Buu once and for all. It would've given the series, in my opinion, a better ending, as the role of strongest has been passed from father to son, and Gohan's powers have finally been brought to what all they'd been cracked up to be.

Then, if Toei decided to make a GT after this, somehow...I'd say we could see Pan as Gohan's succesor, then...with the Goku Jr. epilogue, know that the Son family will always be there to protect the Earth.

That's an ending, if you ask me.

[unstable_person99]

(You spell Buu oddly, what language do you watch?)

The subbed Japanese version on the FUNi discs spell it "Majin Boo".

And they spell 'Uub' as 'Oob'.

'Boo' and 'Oob' just look retarded spelled like this, if you ask me.

Anyway...

I would've loved to have seen Gohan step up in Goku's role and destroy Buu once and for all. It would've given the series, in my opinion, a better ending, as the role of strongest has been passed from father to son, and Gohan's powers have finally been brought to what all they'd been cracked up to be.

Then, if Toei decided to make a GT after this, somehow...I'd say we could see Pan as Gohan's succesor, then...with the Goku Jr. epilogue, know that the Son family will always be there to protect the Earth.

That's an ending, if you ask me.

I agree with you on that.

[El_Diablo]

Yeah, trying to make the names closer to the original puns is so stupid.

[Casual Matt]

I know that Boo had a bar of soap with "Boo" written on it, but did he have anything else like that? I assumed that (or something like that) was the reason behind the spelling.

Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with spelling it Boo or Oob. Doesn't look "retarded" or incorrect in the least to me. Of course, there's nothing really wrong with spelling it like "Buu" either.