So has GT been forgiven yet?

[dangerouslover]

I personally loved GT from beginning to end, and am loving Super as well. In my opinion, they're following two different plot lines that can both be considered proper canon to the series. For starters, GT took advantage of the fact that Akira Toriyama introduced two important characters in DBZ (Pan and Uub), and just like in the past with Z coming over from DB, relegated them to fit the story they needed them to be in. Meanwhile, in Super we've completely been told that Uub pretty much doesn't even exist despite the fact that he appears at the end of Dragon Ball Z even inside the Manga.

How I see it, GT is the original timeline for if Beerus either never woke up or just decided his reign as God of Destruction wasn't in any serious jeopardy so went back to sleep. Meanwhile, Super is the new timeline for when Beerus does in fact wake up. Again that's just me.

Both have some great parts to their series and they both introduced a nice entry piece to their series. Also, both have a set of new dragon balls which seems to be the case for all new DB series that come out. Though I'm pretty sure this now means there are dragon balls even greater than the ones in universes 6 & 7. But that's another topic.

[VegettoEX]

Meanwhile, in Super we've completely been told that Uub pretty much doesn't even exist despite the fact that he appears at the end of Dragon Ball Z even inside the Manga.

That's not true at all. In episode 30, Goku and Vegeta explicitly talk about the reincarnation of Boo and how he'd still just be a little baby/kid at this point in the story and isn't worth bringing along to the tournament. They don't say "Oob" by name, but the context of the conversation is obvious.

Remember: Dragon Ball Super is taking place during the ten-year time period between the defeat of Majin Boo and the 28th Tenka'ichi Budokai.

[TheGreatness25]

I think that the two shows have different circumstances. GT was right out of the gate after Z had ended both in Japan and on the U.S. (albeit at different years abs in the U.S. there might have been a few months in between). Z was still fresh in everyone's mind and here comes GT with its different style and different feel. I think it was just so jarring to go from such an epic story like Boo to having Goku turn into a kid and fly off into space with Trunks (who's not as badass as the Trunks in Z) and Pan (who's not as adorable as the Pan in Z) to fight baddies that really don't seem to matter much. I think that set the tone for GT and obviously when you stack it up to Z, it falls short. With Super, it's been a really, really long time. Along the way, video games and reputation kept the series alive. Enough years passed to build a desire for DB content and they delivered with a very epic Battle of Gods. And off to the races they went.

I know that I never had an issue with GT. I forgave a lot of it because I never really cared about its "inconsistencies" and never cared about power scaling or any of that stuff. I just sat down to enjoy the continuation of my favorite series. One of GT's most enjoyable qualities -- at least for me -- was that it took place so many years after Boo. The characters all grew up. It was a kind of slice of life thing. Sure, we saw the characters when they're training or preparing for something or fighting, but what do they do when that's over? The 7 year gap and ending in Z showed us a little, but GT shows us what happens when life goes on. The kids are all grown up (Pan and Bra excluded), we get to see a true civilized Vegeta, we see Goten as a young man, etc. I loved that. Super is definitely not similar in that regard.

I, personally, can't even watch Super right now. I want to experience it through FUNimation's translation or maybe even dub (since it'll be more or less faithful to the original). I don't watch the Japanese version of Cowboy Bebop or anything like that because unlike Dragon Ball, I won't lose anything by watching the dub only. With the way FUNimation are doing things, the same will be true worth Super. But my general curiosity got me with the Trunks thing and I went to YouTube to watch some clips... I just can't. It looks do bizarre. It looks so cheap. I would think with the advent of all the anime out there and how amazing that looks, that DBS would look amazing too and it doesn't at all. The movies looked great, but this... They're so stiff and looks like they're always posing and the only thing that moves is their mouths. That with the bright colors, it looks like a more DB-esque version of HISHE. But I digress.

Anyway, Super might not be doing anything better than GT (it's all subjective), but enough time has passed for desire to build, which GT never had. Nobody should forgive anything if they thought it was a bad show. You don't have to "forgive" GT just because Super has the same issues.

[HybridSaiyan]

I never seen a problem with GT. I enjoyed it all the way through. The characters aged greatly and we actually seen the results in their designs.

And hey, GT involved everyone in the fights, even if they did get their asses kicked. Gohan participated in the fighting, he fought baby Goten, Rildo, Super 17 and Omega. The only characters that were missing were the humans and Piccolo.

We can forgive the Piccolo's lack of activity, due his emotional death scene and how he talks with Gohan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKy-6zLcVjA

The flashback was a bad choice to use though lmao.

[sintzu]

We can forgive the Piccolo's lack of activity, due his emotional death scene and how he talks with Gohan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKy-6zLcVjA

This alone is enough to forgive everything GT did wrong and show you what a joke Super is compared to GT even though it's also a flawed show.

[ryou766]

GT attempted to have death become a serious factor in the franchise. And for that, I tip my hat to the writers.


GT wasn't the best, but it certainly was more entertaining than Super, in my opinion.

[Chuquita]

I don't care about power scaling. Plot points though; I can forgive GT coincidentally because Super exists. There were very few things I liked about GT (some of the Gokû and Vegeta banter near the end, the series soundtrack, the ssj4 transformation sequence of Gokû's, the flashback beach scene, that one ED shot of adult Gokû with his tail, the very last scene in the final episode are all good things imo). I honestly have trouble making them without also having a "but" immediately following it.

I like the idea of characters traveling through space on a Dragon Ball hunt, but I dislike the choice of who went on that hunt.

I like the idea of a body snatcher villain but I dislike that they picked Vegeta again and I dislike the transformation making him not even look like Vegeta because then what was they point of even singling him out?

I like the idea that they have to purify the dragon balls at the end, but I dislike that they have to sacrifice Gokû to do it.

And then there's things I just flat out dislike: like them turning Gokû into a kid, Vegeta's haircut, a lot of the character designs and colors (though I attribute that one to the mid 90's being what they were).


Not to say there isn't stuff I dislike about Super. There's definitely stuff I dislike (looking at you string of episodes around and after the end of the Champa arc where Vegeta was inexplicably cutting friendship ties from Gokû after spending three years together - four and a half if you count Beerus' Planet --there's other things I dislike too, but that's the strongest one to me currently) but there isn't nearly as much there I dislike as there is with GT.

[Cetra]

I recently thought how GT would have had a better reason for the Galaxy Tour by just completely getting rid of the "one year of the earth is gonna be destroyed thing" and replacing it with:

- There are no Black Star Dragon Balls
- Pilaf uses the ordinary Dragon Balls which have collected so much negative energy
- The wish to make Goku smaller causes the Shadow Dragons to appear and instead of the Dragon Balls in ordinary sphere form the Dragons roam the universe and they have to stop them (here we would have to have a reason why people like Kaioshin cannot help just by teleporting though)
- The Shadow Dragons would be the central element, even though not everyone would be a main villain and during their search main villains like Baby and 17 could still appear. And then in the end, they come back to Earth were Yi Xing Long has appeared as the main villain of the Shadow Dragons and he absorbs the Dragon Balls

That is by the way how I would do a rewrite.

[Hero]

I think that the two shows have different circumstances. GT was right out of the gate after Z had ended both in Japan and on the U.S. (albeit at different years abs in the U.S. there might have been a few months in between). Z was still fresh in everyone's mind and here comes GT with its different style and different feel. I think it was just so jarring to go from such an epic story like Boo to having Goku turn into a kid and fly off into space with Trunks (who's not as badass as the Trunks in Z) and Pan (who's not as adorable as the Pan in Z) to fight baddies that really don't seem to matter much. I think that set the tone for GT and obviously when you stack it up to Z, it falls short. With Super, it's been a really, really long time. Along the way, video games and reputation kept the series alive. Enough years passed to build a desire for DB content and they delivered with a very epic Battle of Gods. And off to the races they went.

I know that I never had an issue with GT. I forgave a lot of it because I never really cared about its "inconsistencies" and never cared about power scaling or any of that stuff. I just sat down to enjoy the continuation of my favorite series. One of GT's most enjoyable qualities -- at least for me -- was that it took place so many years after Boo. The characters all grew up. It was a kind of slice of life thing. Sure, we saw the characters when they're training or preparing for something or fighting, but what do they do when that's over? The 7 year gap and ending in Z showed us a little, but GT shows us what happens when life goes on. The kids are all grown up (Pan and Bra excluded), we get to see a true civilized Vegeta, we see Goten as a young man, etc. I loved that. Super is definitely not similar in that regard.

I, personally, can't even watch Super right now. I want to experience it through FUNimation's translation or maybe even dub (since it'll be more or less faithful to the original). I don't watch the Japanese version of Cowboy Bebop or anything like that because unlike Dragon Ball, I won't lose anything by watching the dub only. With the way FUNimation are doing things, the same will be true worth Super. But my general curiosity got me with the Trunks thing and I went to YouTube to watch some clips... I just can't. It looks do bizarre. It looks so cheap. I would think with the advent of all the anime out there and how amazing that looks, that DBS would look amazing too and it doesn't at all. The movies looked great, but this... They're so stiff and looks like they're always posing and the only thing that moves is their mouths. That with the bright colors, it looks like a more DB-esque version of HISHE. But I digress.

Anyway, Super might not be doing anything better than GT (it's all subjective), but enough time has passed for desire to build, which GT never had. Nobody should forgive anything if they thought it was a bad show. You don't have to "forgive" GT just because Super has the same issues.

Yes. This, this, this. One of the best things about Dragon Ball in general was seeing characters grow up, and seeing time pass.

It felt like you were growing up along with Goku when you saw him grow from a little boy in the world to the strongest man in the world. It was just fulfilling seeing Gohan grow from a boy scared to be alone in the woods, to the savior of the world. That's why Gohan's portrayal in Super hurts so many fans.

I want to see everyone grow more. I want to see Trunks and Goten as young adults, and Pan, Bra and Marron as kids. I want to see Uub and what is done with him. Why can't we have this with the God stuff? It doesn't have to be either or.

[sintzu]

They're so stiff and looks like they're always posing and the only thing that moves is their mouths. That with the bright colors, it looks like a more DB-esque version of HISHE.

That's what happens when you get a 5$ budget.

[ArchedThunder]

They're so stiff and looks like they're always posing and the only thing that moves is their mouths. That with the bright colors, it looks like a more DB-esque version of HISHE.

That's what happens when you get a 5$ budget.

Haven't you been told like a million times that Super's quality has nothing to do with budget? Toei actually spends a lot on the show.

[sintzu]

Toei actually spends a lot on the show.

If that's the case then they're probably sending the $$$ to the wrong account and the staff are stuck with what's left over from GT's budget.

[ArchedThunder]

Toei actually spends a lot on the show.

If that's the case then they're probably sending the $$$ to the wrong account and the staff are stuck with what's left over from GT's budget.

I know for a fact you've been told before that it has to do with the schedule being so tight which is because the show basically had almost no preproduction. Toei very often puts a lot of staff on episodes, including lots of animation supervisors which are expensive. Super's problems have literally nothing to do with budget.

[TheGreatness25]

Whatever the quality can be attributed to, that's a huge issue. The show looks terrible (visually) the second there's movement... and I guess when there isn't, they just look stiff. It's like South Park done in anime.

[ArchedThunder]

Whatever the quality can be attributed to, that's a huge issue. The show looks terrible (visually) the second there's movement... and I guess when there isn't, they just look stiff. It's like South Park done in anime.

It is and always has been Super's biggest issue, but this some extreme hyperbole. You've only watched clips, so I assume you aren't aware that the show has moments like these.
[spoiler]

I don't have anything on had from the Champa arc.[/spoiler]
The show absolutely has huge problems, but it is FAR from South Park. The schedule is not an easy fix since they have to keep the show going, but it does seem like it has been slowly but surely improving. The Future Trunks arc has already had a handful of nicely animated pieces of action and lots of smaller things like character movement are animated a lot better now usually.

[Hellspawn28]

I still think Super is better than GT. With Super, I feel like the story and characters are better. The characters in GT are pretty forgettable and don't have anything really that memorable about them. Copy Arc in Super was awful, but I still like it better than the Super 17 saga. It still makes me angry that they brought all of the villains out of Hell in GT as cameos. No real fights and good interactions with them outside of Nappa and Vegeta. I also hate the Cell and Freeza crossover episode because they threat them as a total joke. Super 17 still feels like a lame idea. I never get why they didn't do something like Bio Cyborg #21 or something in the lines of that. I guess Bandai felt like a cooler version of Super 17 would help ratings and sell more toys.

[sintzu]

The show basically had almost no pre production.

Toei very often puts a lot of staff on episodes, including lots of animation supervisors which are expensive.

Super's problems have literally nothing to do with budget.

We're over a year in and it still has the same problems.

According to Hayashida, the staff working on it are newbies so they're not spending as much as you think.

Regardless of what it is, they need to find out what's wrong and at least try to improve it.

[sintzu]

The schedule is not an easy fix since they have to keep the show going.

During GT's run there were more than one time where they went 3-4 weeks without releasing an episode so if they wanted to they could take it off and replace it with something else temporarily.

The characters in GT are pretty forgettable and don't have anything really that memorable about them.

And the characters in Super do ?

[ArchedThunder]

We're over a year in and it still has the same problems.

According to Hayashida, the staff working on it are newbies so they're not spending as much as you think.

Regardless of what it is, they need to find out what's wrong and at least try to improve it.

Fixing something like that isn't easy because they have to keep the show going. The best way to fix it would be to take the show off air for a few months, but they can't do that.

No he said the animators on "Those scenes" were new. Super has quite a few people who have worked on the series as far back as the original DB, and others that are somewhat more recent but not newbies. I also don't think you have any idea how pay in the anime industry works.

They know exactly what the problem is and odds are they've been doing their best to improve the schedule bit by bit when they can.

During GT's run there were more than one time where they went 3-4 weeks without releasing an episode so if they wanted to they could take it off and replace it with something else temporarily.

When Dragon Ball doesn't air it's not because Toei decided to not air it, it's because something else needed to air then. Toei has to fill the time slot.

[Hellspawn28]

The characters in GT are pretty forgettable and don't have anything really that memorable about them.

And the characters in Super do ?

Champa, Vados, Hit, Cabba, Frost and Magetta have been enjoyable. Goku Black is probably the best written villain that we had to date. Bebi is the best villain in GT, but I still felt like that he was lackluster compare to the main villains in DBZ and even Piccolo Daimao. The other characters in GT like General Rildo, Sigma Force, the aliens in the Black Star Dragon Ball hunt and the other Shadow Dragons are just meh and are pretty forgettable in my opinion. I mean Hit has a very cool personalty to him and can stop time better than Guldo can. Cabba is what Tarble should have been in my opinion.

Frost being evil as a twist was stupid, but at least his personality is different from Freeza. At least Frost enjoys a good fight and pretends that he is good.