The writing of Super should not be excused

[Shuby]

I could ask those questions too, but you get my point. I think Dragon ball had consistent story writing because Toriyama was making things up as he went through the story and begin parts of Z were solid (saiyan arc and Frieza arc). A show should definitely improve by time which Super is unfortunately not doing.

Well I don't know if Toriyama making things up as he went is what made DragonBall consistent. (Relatively) But I would argue that super is improving. Maybe not by leaps and bounds but it's certainly better then when it started. Wither it's still Good or not is entirely up to the individual viewer though. People look for different things in the series and a lot of people find them here in Super. Me personally, for the most part, this show checks all my boxes when it comes to what I look for in my Dragonball.

Interesting new characters.

Cool fights.

Expanded lore

Great character moments.

I meant that he did not have a pre established lore or story in Dragon Ball so he could go anywhere because he was setting a complete new story up, so it was not conflicting with earlier established sections of the story. For the most part it was about adventure which changed quite a bit in Z and Super.

Sure everyone expects different things in a particular show but let me illustrate what i mean.

Interesting new characters, we got to see new characters in the u6 arc but how much do we know about them? Hit is an assassin tell me more other then that? Tell me more about Botoma or Magetta other then that he get's easily offended? At least Cabbe and Frost got some development. Tell me more about the two kaioshins in u6? I doubt they'll be giving everyone a backstory in the survival arc.

[Boo Machine]

I meant that he did not have a pre established lore or story in Dragon Ball so he could go anywhere because he was setting a complete new story up, so it was not conflicting with earlier established sections of the story. For the most part it was about adventure which changed quite a bit in Z and Super.

Sure everyone expects different things in a particular show but let me illustrate what i mean.

Interesting new characters, we got to see new characters in the u6 arc but how much do we know about them? Hit is an assassin tell me more other then that? Tell me more about Botoma or Magetta other then that he get's easily offended? At least Cabbe and Frost got some development. Tell me more about the two kaioshins in u6? I doubt they'll be giving everyone a backstory in the survival arc.

Could you tell me everything there was to know about Piccolo, Gohan, or Vegeta when they showed up, besides Is evil, Gokus son, and is evil? We learned about them as the story went on and by their actions. I'm not counting on the survival arc to hash everything out but with characters Like, Hit, Jaco, and Zamasu and Gowasu as well as Beerus and Whis we have enough to decide wither we like them or not. We don't need their entire origin or how they like they're eggs in the morning to like them or think they are interesting.

None of them are incredibly in depth but there are very few characters in Dragonball who are.

I like Hit. He is an assassin who likes a challenge and has a code of honer that keeps him from killing from the back. He likes Goku to the point of giving him 2 chances to run, and respects him, because Goku allows him that challenge that makes him smile. He wants to improve always, just like Goku.

I like Zamasu as a villain. Zamasu is an apprentice Kaioshin who believe that all mortals need to be gotten rid of based on the few instances of acts they committed that he didn't like, and his own arrogance. He believes what he does after is completely justified and it causes him to go from just being a simple apprentice to a self righteous god. To the point where he act just like the savages he hates.

Beerus and Whis are fan favorites and I don't know a lot of people that can tell me a whole lot about them aside from what we've seen on the surface. And that's because the little we have seen has been pretty darn good. Aside from the constant food jokes.

[ChronoTwigger]

It is objectively true that Super has the tendency to not explain why they are showing us.

And when exactly the problem begin?
Never seen Donnie Darko?
How Akira Fudo/Devilman die, it's never depicted?
How EXACTLY the thing end in Evangelion?
Why pouring god blood turn saint cloth in divine armour in Ades arc, and never happen before in Saint Seiya?
WTF who are Kenshiro Kasumi parents, and how the brothers split?

Lacking of explanations is NOT bad writing.
Bad writing is giving bad explanations.

[Gafonso6]

It is objectively true that Super has the tendency to not explain why they are showing us.

And when exactly the problem begin?
Never seen Donnie Darko?
How Akira Fudo/Devilman die, it's never depicted?
How EXACTLY the thing end in Evangelion?
Why pouring god blood turn saint cloth in divine armour in Ades arc, and never happen before in Saint Seiya?
WTF who are Kenshiro Kasumi parents, and how the brothers split?

Lacking of explanations is NOT bad writing.
Bad writing is giving bad explanations.

I almost stood up and claped after reading your last frase.
The perfect response to this post with only 13 words.

[Shuby]

I meant that he did not have a pre established lore or story in Dragon Ball so he could go anywhere because he was setting a complete new story up, so it was not conflicting with earlier established sections of the story. For the most part it was about adventure which changed quite a bit in Z and Super.

Sure everyone expects different things in a particular show but let me illustrate what i mean.

Interesting new characters, we got to see new characters in the u6 arc but how much do we know about them? Hit is an assassin tell me more other then that? Tell me more about Botoma or Magetta other then that he get's easily offended? At least Cabbe and Frost got some development. Tell me more about the two kaioshins in u6? I doubt they'll be giving everyone a backstory in the survival arc.

Could you tell me everything there was to know about Piccolo, Gohan, or Vegeta when they showed up, besides Is evil, Gokus son, and is evil? We learned about them as the story went on and by their actions. I'm not counting on the survival arc to hash everything out but with characters Like, Hit, Jaco, and Zamasu and Gowasu as well as Beerus and Whis we have enough to decide wither we like them or not. We don't need their entire origin or how they like they're eggs in the morning to like them or think they are interesting.

None of them are incredibly in depth but there are very few characters in Dragonball who are.

I like Hit. He is an assassin who likes a challenge and has a code of honer that keeps him from killing from the back. He likes Goku to the point of giving him 2 chances to run, and respects him, because Goku allows him that challenge that makes him smile. He wants to improve always, just like Goku.

I like Zamasu as a villain. Zamasu is an apprentice Kaioshin who believe that all mortals need to be gotten rid of based on the few instances of acts they committed that he didn't like, and his own arrogance. He believes what he does after is completely justified and it causes him to go from just being a simple apprentice to a self righteous god. To the point where he act just like the savages he hates.

Beerus and Whis are fan favorites and I don't know a lot of people that can tell me a whole lot about them aside from what we've seen on the surface. And that's because the little we have seen has been pretty darn good. Aside from the constant food jokes.

The difference is that Gohan Vegeta and Piccolo had way more screentime in the beginning so we intially knew that Gohan was different from Goku when Gohan was first introduced he was more shy and scarred and wanted to be a scholar, they spent a considerable amount of screentime on Gohan when he was introduced , i believe episode 1 in DBZ. Vegetta was the prince of all saiyans and came to earth and later wanted to be immortal so that he can fight forever they later changed that to hee wants immortality to fight Frieza . We saw Piccolo spent a lot of time with Gohan and how that changed him. So they spent a lot of time with these characters in one arc, that's why eventually we came to love and adore them , we have yet to see with these "characters". Notice how i never mentioned Jacko or Zamasu since we know they had good screentime.

[Shuby]

It is objectively true that Super has the tendency to not explain why they are showing us.

And when exactly the problem begin?
Never seen Donnie Darko?
How Akira Fudo/Devilman die, it's never depicted?
How EXACTLY the thing end in Evangelion?
Why pouring god blood turn saint cloth in divine armour in Ades arc, and never happen before in Saint Seiya?
WTF who are Kenshiro Kasumi parents, and how the brothers split?

Lacking of explanations is NOT bad writing.
Bad writing is giving bad explanations.

I almost stood up and claped after reading your last frase.
The perfect response to this post with only 13 words.

Bad writing is giving no explanation and giving bad explanation , it's not one or the other. Sure giving no explanation from time to time is not awful, but they have been doing it for far too long to the point one might not understand what is going on since we have not context of what is happening on screen.

[Lord Beerus]

No one is excusing Dragon Ball Super's lackluster writing. Hell, as much as I like Super, I'll be the first one to call out the show on its bullshit. But not explaining something that happens is unfortunately a detail in the narrative that Dragon Ball has had an issue with for many years. There are still quite a few unanswered questions from the original story of Dragon Ball, and it unfortunate that Super goes down the same route on occasions, but it what it is.

[Boo Machine]

The difference is that Gohan Vegeta and Piccolo had way more screentime in the beginning so we intially knew that Gohan was different from Goku when Gohan was first introduced he was more shy and scarred and wanted to be a scholar, they spent a considerable amount of screentime on Gohan when he was introduced , i believe episode 1 in DBZ. Vegetta was the prince of all saiyans and came to earth and later wanted to be immortal so that he can fight forever they later changed that to hee wants immortality to fight Frieza . We saw Piccolo spent a lot of time with Gohan and how that changed him. So they spent a lot of time with these characters in one arc, that's why eventually we came to love and adore them , we have yet to see with these "characters". Notice how i never mentioned Jacko or Zamasu since we know they had good screentime.

That's exactly the point though. They eventually got enough screen time for a character arc of some kind. Super has characters that are relatively new. And the show threw quite a bit of them at us all at once. You can't really expect them to ALL have screen time other wise the actual main characters don't get any. Some will be pushed aside like how the original pushed characters like Chiaotzu or Yajirobe aside.

Jaco and Zamasu count as new characters that are interesting that I mentioned before.

There is a reason people actually want to see more of a character like Hit as opposed to someone like Botamo who has 1 speaking line or the U6 Kaioshin who have no real part in anything. Because people like him and find him interesting. Thus giving him more screentime like in the last few episodes ,Which got me to like him more when before I was just kinda lukewarm to him.

[Shuby]

The difference is that Gohan Vegeta and Piccolo had way more screentime in the beginning so we intially knew that Gohan was different from Goku when Gohan was first introduced he was more shy and scarred and wanted to be a scholar, they spent a considerable amount of screentime on Gohan when he was introduced , i believe episode 1 in DBZ. Vegetta was the prince of all saiyans and came to earth and later wanted to be immortal so that he can fight forever they later changed that to hee wants immortality to fight Frieza . We saw Piccolo spent a lot of time with Gohan and how that changed him. So they spent a lot of time with these characters in one arc, that's why eventually we came to love and adore them , we have yet to see with these "characters". Notice how i never mentioned Jacko or Zamasu since we know they had good screentime.

That's exactly the point though. They eventually got enough screen time for a character arc of some kind. Super has characters that are relatively new. And the show threw quite a bit of them at us all at once. You can't really expect them to ALL have screen time other wise the actual main characters don't get any. Some will be pushed aside like how the original pushed characters like Chiaotzu or Yajirobe aside.

Jaco and Zamasu count as new characters that are interesting that I mentioned before.

There is a reason people actually want to see more of a character like Hit as opposed to someone like Botamo who has 1 speaking line or the U6 Kaioshin who have no real part in anything. Because people like him and find him interesting. Thus giving him more screentime like in the last few episodes ,Which got me to like him more when before I was just kinda lukewarm to him.

I am not asking for them to give every characters the same screentime as Hit or Zamasu, all i am asking is to give us some additional information about this new characters, something i personally feel Yu Yu Hakusho did it much much better in the dark tournament arc. This is just bad character utilization.

[Doctor.]

- How was King-Kai's world restored?

It was wished back, there's a special manga page drawn by Toyotaro illustrating this. Even if you don't count it, we know that Kaios can create planets.

- How did the pillaf gang turn into kids?

They wished for it. Again, Toyotaro covered it.

-Explaining who Jacko is (Not providing a backstory so that the newer audience can understand this character)

He has a manga that ties directly with Dragon Ball.

Why Hit wanted the cube

Presumably so he could freely travel to other universes, this much is obvious.

and why Champa searched for the Super dragon ball in the first place?

So he could wish for whatever he wanted? That's the purpose of the dragon balls.

[Shuby]

- How was King-Kai's world restored?

It was wished back, there's a special manga page drawn by Toyotaro illustrating this. Even if you don't count it, we know that Kaios can create planets.

- How did the pillaf gang turn into kids?

They wished for it. Again, Toyotaro covered it.

-Explaining who Jacko is (Not providing a backstory so that the newer audience can understand this character)

He has a manga that ties directly with Dragon Ball.

Why Hit wanted the cube

Presumably so he could freely travel to other universes, this much is obvious.

and why Champa searched for the Super dragon ball in the first place?

So he could wish for whatever he wanted? That's the purpose of the dragon balls.

But none of those you have answered were explained or shown in the anime. that's my point.

[Doctor.]

But none of those you have answered were explained or shown in the anime. that's my point.

I don't see why we need to be spoonfed obvious, common-sense things that we should be able to deduce instantly such as why Champa wanted the DBs or how Kaio's planet was restored.

[Shuby]

But none of those you have answered were explained or shown in the anime. that's my point.

I don't see why we need to be spoonfed obvious, common-sense things that we should be able to deduce instantly such as why Champa wanted the DBs or how Kaio's planet was restored.

Because people want to know not every1 has read the manga.

[Doctor.]

But none of those you have answered were explained or shown in the anime. that's my point.

I don't see why we need to be spoonfed obvious, common-sense things that we should be able to deduce instantly such as why Champa wanted the DBs or how Kaio's planet was restored.

Because people want to know not every1 has read the manga.

There's no need to read the manga, we know that Kaios have the power to create objects. Restoring his planet shouldn't be a hard feat to accomplish. Hell, even Goku says he should be able to restore the damage he caused to his planet in episode 2.

Some things are just blatantly obvious and you can reach the answer with common sense. I'm not saying you should apply your headcanon to everything and teach it as fact, but explaining every little thing would mean the show is treating the audience like a bunch of idiots.

[Shuby]

But none of those you have answered were explained or shown in the anime. that's my point.

I don't see why we need to be spoonfed obvious, common-sense things that we should be able to deduce instantly such as why Champa wanted the DBs or how Kaio's planet was restored.

Hell there is probably a reason why they provided that information of how kaio's planet was restored because people wanted to know i think , or to make sure people won't be questioning later down the line.

[Shuby]

I don't see why we need to be spoonfed obvious, common-sense things that we should be able to deduce instantly such as why Champa wanted the DBs or how Kaio's planet was restored.

Because people want to know not every1 has read the manga.

There's no need to read the manga, we know that Kaios have the power to create objects. Restoring his planet shouldn't be a hard feat to accomplish. Hell, even Goku says he should be able to restore the damage he caused to his planet in episode 2.

Some things are just blatantly obvious and you can reach the answer with common sense. I'm not saying you should apply your headcanon to everything and teach it as fact, but explaining every little thing would mean the show is treating the audience like a bunch of idiots.

The planet can also be restored by the use of Dragon Balls, adding little additional information causes not harm.

[Boo Machine]

I am not asking for them to give every characters the same screentime as Hit or Zamasu, all i am asking is to give us some additional information about this new characters, something i personally feel Yu Yu Hakusho did it much much better in the dark tournament arc. This is just bad character utilization.

Well that's not true about the dark tournament. Some fighters got some focus, but some were just fighters and not everyone got a whole lot of screen time outside their time in the ring. And the dark tournament could arguably be one of the best tourny arcs in manga/anime so that's a rough comparison to begin with. That would be like me comparing a child's finger painting with the sistine chapel. (I might be exaggerating with the example but you get the idea)

[Shuby]

I am not asking for them to give every characters the same screentime as Hit or Zamasu, all i am asking is to give us some additional information about this new characters, something i personally feel Yu Yu Hakusho did it much much better in the dark tournament arc. This is just bad character utilization.

Well that's not true about the dark tournament. Some fighters got some focus, but some were just fighters and not everyone got a whole lot of screen time outside their time in the ring. And the dark tournament could arguably be one of the best tourny arcs in manga/anime so that's a rough comparison to begin with. That would be like me comparing a child's finger painting with the sistine chapel. (I might be exaggerating with the example but you get the idea)

Enough fighters got the focus that's probably one of the biggest reasins why it was so received well, i am not comparing i am just merely saying that a tournament arc should be inspired by the dark tournament arc.

[SaiyanZ]

I agree. The manga is more passable imo.

I don't think anyone flat out excuses Super's writing but if you break down every arc from the franchise you will find a lot of flaws and unexplained things. Like Kro said yesterday Super shouldn't fall in that trap but I think at this point we should expect things not to get explained. We still don't know why Super Saiyan turns the users hair gold and gives them green eyes and its almost been 26 years since it debuted in the anime.

I don't think that needs to be explained. That's like asking why any transformation in any series is any color. Also, I don't think previous arcs have a lot of flaws as people seem to believe.