Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

[Lord Beerus]

Without vegeta they would've been fucked on namek considering he took dodoria and zarbon and most of the ginyu force and saved gohan life.

But at the same time, Vegeta was greatly responsible for billions of people dying later on. It was double edge sword to say the very least. He honestly created way more problems then he actually solved.

What problems did vegeta create exactly? Besides Obvious ones like cell and buu which not even completly on him.

- Spilling the beans that another set of Dragon Balls exist. Leading to Freeza and his army getting the drop on Namek.
- Goading Freeza into transforming
- Helping Cell to become Perfect
- Allowing Babidi to control him and being the catalyst for Majin Boo revival

All those acts are incredibly pivotal to the plot. Hell, the Cell Games and the Majin Boo arc in it's entirety would flat out not happen if wasn't for Vegeta,

[Beerus-sama]

Tbf its not like he knew this would happen he just thought it would be a regular tournament instead of one inlvolving the destruction of the multiverse.

He literally got warned by Beerus and Whis. How the f would he not know? Are you really trying to defend him here?

He didn't knew this shit was going to happen never said he was innocent in this, but let's be real it's not like goku knew the cost was the destruction of multiple universes and said all right let's do this, all he want was a good fight.

But then again, he was warned about Zen'ou's Universe blasting strengh, that should have made him think about that possibility but he didn't because he wanted to fight so he didn't care, that makes him at fault.

[pacz360]

But at the same time, Vegeta was greatly responsible for billions of people dying later on. It was double edge sword to say the very least. He honestly created way more problems then he actually solved.

What problems did vegeta create exactly? Besides Obvious ones like cell and buu which not even completly on him.

- Spilling the beans that another set of Dragon Balls exist. Leading to Freeza and his army getting the drop on Namek.
- Goading Freeza into transforming
- Helping Cell to become Perfect
- Allowing Babidi to control him and being the catalyst for Majin Boo revival

All those acts are incredibly pivotal to the plot. Hell, the Cell Games and the Majin Boo arc in it's entirety would flat out not happen if wasn't for Vegeta,

1.i might give you that one tho he didn't that would happen
2. Honestly freeza would of transform regardless to show how fuck they are.
3. As i said not completly on him where krillin had the device to deactivate android 18 or trunks could've of blown her up to prevent cell from being perfect hell the bitch should've left when vegeta was fucking cell up
4.i'll give you that one

[pacz360]

He literally got warned by Beerus and Whis. How the f would he not know? Are you really trying to defend him here?

He didn't knew this shit was going to happen never said he was innocent in this, but let's be real it's not like goku knew the cost was the destruction of multiple universes and said all right let's do this, all he want was a good fight.

But then again, he was warned about Zen'ou's Universe blasting strengh, that should have made him think about that possibility but he didn't because he wanted to fight so he didn't care, that makes him at fault.

All Goku did was remind him thats it not saying he shouldn't hold sone of the blame.

[pacz360]

Are people forgetting the one who gave zeno the idea of the tournament was beerus and champa? Hadn't done that zeno wouldn't had the idea of the multiverse tournament.

[Beyond]

Hell yea, he gets part of the blame. WTF was he thinking? He knows Zeno can life wipe with a mere thought, he knows he already took out 6 universes. Beerus and whis called him out on his shit, and he still did it. He better get called out again. Beerus gets props for calling Goku out. Both Beerus and Piccolo are in a special hall of fame for calling Goku out on his stupidity(and yes it'll probably work itself out like it did with gohan, but the fact still reminds that he fucked up both times.)

[SaiyanGod117]

Yea, there's no denying this one he's definitely to blame, but this is Super Goku; so of course he would do something this stupid and selfish.

[ChronoTwigger]

A: no one will die.
B: fun to read people defending old Goku like he was real. Please stop. It's not your friend. He could turn the most evil / silly character in the universe, and no one get really cheated. Is fiction. And Goku was not your older brother that punch bullies.
C: Whatever, WE know that the Universe will be "obliterated" (while this couldn't happen for a lot of reason, so that spoiler was really dumb), but characters DOESN'T know already.
D:MOST IMPORTANT, Beerus NEVER want to mess with Zeno. Never once. He tried to stop Goku meeting Zeno all the time.

Follow the story flow. That "destroy the loser" thing is none to be seen now.
And, as for over-intellectualizing, the whole mess was started by Beerus visiting Earth, so now you know the culprit.

[TheMathemagician]

Yea, there's no denying this one he's definitely to blame, but this is Super Goku; so of course he would do something this stupid and selfish.

Yes, cause Z Goku never pulled a stunt like this before. Lol at "but this is Super Goku" when Z Goku has Goku straight up fully aware that fighting Vegeta would help release Boo. He proceeds to fight Vegeta and choose not to just end it. Goku fucked up here, but lol he never even knew the consequences of asking for a tournament, as opposed to him straight up knowing what will happen if he fought Majin Vegeta.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Yep. It was his fault that Zeno was reminded of the Tournament to begin with so by proxy, he should get some blame for getting the ball rolling.

That being said, I don't see how Goku's selfishness and "nihilism" are a true factors here. Some people seem to have this idea that Goku learned about the deadly stipulations of the tournament beforehand but just didn't care or that he should'be had psychic premonition as to what Zeno would do with this tournament. It's easy to have hindsight on the matter and point fingers because fictional characters don't know what you know but honestly, think about things from Goku's perspective; Goku has suffered absolutely no ramifications from his straightforward attitude towards Zeno. In fact, Zeno always seemed rather amicable towards him all the same. Plus, the only time that Goku witnesses Zeno's power is when it's done to eradicate an immortal madman.

Why would/should Goku forsee imminent danger just from bringing up the tournament? Just because he was warned from a couple of non-psychics?

[DSB]

And, as for over-intellectualizing, the whole mess was started by Beerus visiting Earth, so now you know the culprit.

Lets carry on that thing then ..

Beerus ONLY Had a Dream AND A NAME , Super Saiyan God . He didnt know a name or where could he find him . Its when he saw SSj Goku beat Freeza did he have a clue of where to start .

Beerus JUST gave Freeza the permission to kill the Saiyans .

Freeza Killed the Saiyans leading to EVERYTHING that happened So far in DBU



So , Freeza is the Real Culprit . Hell , lets say King Cold is one REAL Culprit because :

• He was the Mutant of his Species to get the ASTONISHING Power Level
• HE FREAKING Gave Birth to Freeza

[DSB]

Yep. It was his fault that Zeno was reminded of the Tournament to begin with so by proxy, he should get some blame for getting the ball rolling.

That being said, I don't see how Goku's selfishness and "nihilism" are a true factors here. Some people seem to have this idea that Goku learned about the deadly stipulations of the tournament beforehand but just didn't care or that he should'be had psychic premonition as to what Zeno would do with this tournament. It's easy to have hindsight on the matter and point fingers because fictional characters don't know what you know but honestly, think about things from Goku's perspective; Goku has suffered absolutely no ramifications from his straightforward attitude towards Zeno. In fact, Zeno always seemed rather amicable towards him all the same. Plus, the only time that Goku witnesses Zeno's power is when it's done to eradicate an immortal madman.

Why would/should Goku forsee imminent danger just from bringing up the tournament? Just because he was warned from a couple of non-psychics?

Okay . Lets say Your Parents warned you from Messing with Someone who is EXTREMELY powerful and Dangerous . You still do it because you think its ok . Because of your Actions , Other People near you DIE .

You COULD have saved ALL of them by listening to the warnings and leaving that thought .


YOU Are the one to be blamed , End of Story



So is Goku . His idiocy , Selfishness and Arrogance [Not Just Super Goku , But Also Z Goku , remember he gave a Senzu Bean to Cell ? He Let Gohan Fight Cell banking on the fact that HE MAY have untapped potential ? He Didnt End the Fight with Majin Vegeta and Majin Buu right away ??? Hell , he was also leaving Freeza to live . ] really fucked up everything .

[Lunatic Fringe]

Yep. It was his fault that Zeno was reminded of the Tournament to begin with so by proxy, he should get some blame for getting the ball rolling.

That being said, I don't see how Goku's selfishness and "nihilism" are a true factors here. Some people seem to have this idea that Goku learned about the deadly stipulations of the tournament beforehand but just didn't care or that he should'be had psychic premonition as to what Zeno would do with this tournament. It's easy to have hindsight on the matter and point fingers because fictional characters don't know what you know but honestly, think about things from Goku's perspective; Goku has suffered absolutely no ramifications from his straightforward attitude towards Zeno. In fact, Zeno always seemed rather amicable towards him all the same. Plus, the only time that Goku witnesses Zeno's power is when it's done to eradicate an immortal madman.

Why would/should Goku forsee imminent danger just from bringing up the tournament? Just because he was warned from a couple of non-psychics?

Okay . Lets say Your Parents warned you from Messing with Someone who is EXTREMELY powerful and Dangerous . You still do it because you think its ok . Because of your Actions , Other People near you DIE .

You COULD have saved ALL of them by listening to the warnings and leaving that thought .


YOU Are the one to be blamed , End of Story



So is Goku . His idiocy , Selfishness and Arrogance [Not Just Super Goku , But Also Z Goku , remember he gave a Senzu Bean to Cell ? He Let Gohan Fight Cell banking on the fact that HE MAY have untapped potential ? He Didnt End the Fight with Majin Vegeta and Majin Buu right away ??? Hell , he was also leaving Freeza to live . ] really fucked up everything .

The first line of my post pretty much said that Goku should get some blame. What exactly are you arguing against?

[HeroR]

Um yeah? It's Goku holding back against Majin Vegeta and Majin Buu all over again. His negligence, arrogance, and selfishness this time causing multi-universe obliteration.

He held back against Buu because he didn't want the next generation of fighters to depend on him. It was probably Goku most selfless act since he thought about the Earth's future instead of his need to fight Buu and test himself. He also held back against Vegeta to save his feelings.

Both acts were the exact opposite of negligence, arrogance, and selfishness.

Also, the whole 'Super Goku's is a selfish/idiot while Z Goku wasn't' is just factually false.

He spared Vegeta, a mass-murdering space pirate, solely to fight him again. Vegeta turning good was not an outcome he was expecting. In fact, he outright tells Krillin that he didn't expect Vegeta to turn good like Piccolo. It was all a happy accident. Even then, Vegeta killed an entire Namekian village, helped Cell become complete that led to more deaths, and helped revived Buu that caused almost everyone on Earth to die and put the universe in danger.

In Resurrection 'F', a movie written by Toriyama, he was more than happy to let Freeza live to fight him again. This is despite Goku knowing what a sociopath Freeza was. Super actually had Goku hate Freeza's guts and spare him as an insult.

[SansrivaaL]

Ok Goku is at fault, but its not all his fault, it was Chanpa's idea to do a tournament which led to Zeno wanting to do a multiversal tournament which Goku just reminds Zeno of, Goku didnt know what the stakes were, he didnt think that Zeno would be that crazy, he tries to see the good rather than the bad, thats what he did most of the time, he's naive, this is the same guy that just recently said that he thinks Zamasu is not a bad guy, the whole time before that Zamasu was itching with bloodlust towards him.

[Boo Machine]

Goku would at least be partially at fault. He may not have known that such a drastic rule would be in place, but he was warned Zeno is unstable. He has seen it himself and even acknowledged it. I'm surprised he even bothers to have the button on him at all considering what happened the last time he pushed it.

Though the other part of the blame will of course be with the Zenos.

[fexus]

If the blame was starting the tournament, sure it's Goku. But if the blame was letting everyone die, no it's not Goku's fault.

Goku sees Zeno as a friend. As Goku you have a bit of naivety, you thought that everyone have some good in them. Even Freeza. Now the only time Goku sees Zeno destroy the whole damn existence is when some immortal madman was fusing with the universe itself, but then Zeno doesn't know who Goku is. Sure, Whis and Beerus warns him not to do it but should he expect something like destruction of the universe for those who lost. Of course, he doesn't. What he sees Beerus and Whis do is trying to stop him for having a good fight because they are just a bit scared of his friend Zeno. He made a bet that everything is okay. But he lost the bet when Zeno made that ridiculous rule (if zeno was the one who made the rule anyway). I'm sure they will think a way to save everyone.

[SansrivaaL]

Meh I feel like Goku would outright say "Its all good, we can just ask the super dragon balls to revert things back to normal"

[Low Tone G]

Meh I feel like Goku would outright say "Its all good, we can just ask the super dragon balls to revert things back to normal"

He might say that, but what if Universe 6 gets destoryed? Even if U7 will win, Super DBs are scarttered in U6 too.

[SaiyanGod117]

Yea, there's no denying this one he's definitely to blame, but this is Super Goku; so of course he would do something this stupid and selfish.

Yes, cause Z Goku never pulled a stunt like this before. Lol at "but this is Super Goku" when Z Goku has Goku straight up fully aware that fighting Vegeta would help release Boo. He proceeds to fight Vegeta and choose not to just end it. Goku fucked up here, but lol he never even knew the consequences of asking for a tournament, as opposed to him straight up knowing what will happen if he fought Majin Vegeta.

He has before, but not to this extent. It's like he has total disregard for life now and your Vegeta example isnt an actual good one. Since it's Vegeta who started the whole thing in the first place, and if he didn't fight Vegeta it would be more innocent people killed; so what other choice did he have. Going SSJ3 would have stopped Buu from being hatched, but would've destroyed Vegeta's pride and that what he holds most dear. So the choices he made at the time seem all right to me.