Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
Faisal Shourov
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Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:44 pm

Seeing as to how Zeno forgot about the tournament completely, and Goku reminded Zeno personally with great enthusiasm despite being warned by BOTH Beerus and Whis , should Goku be blamed if a single person dies in/because of the Universal Survival Arc tournament?

I know Goku is not a hero, but he's trying very hard to become a villain here.
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by pacz360 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:58 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:Seeing as to how Zeno forgot about the tournament completely, and Goku reminded Zeno personally with great enthusiasm despite being warned by BOTH Beerus and Whis , should Goku be blamed if a single person dies in/because of the Universal Survival Arc tournament?

I know Goku is not a hero, but he's trying very hard to become a villain here.
Tbf its not like he knew this would happen he just thought it would be a regular tournament instead of one inlvolving the destruction of the multiverse.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:12 pm

pacz360 wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:Seeing as to how Zeno forgot about the tournament completely, and Goku reminded Zeno personally with great enthusiasm despite being warned by BOTH Beerus and Whis , should Goku be blamed if a single person dies in/because of the Universal Survival Arc tournament?

I know Goku is not a hero, but he's trying very hard to become a villain here.
Tbf its not like he knew this would happen he just thought it would be a regular tournament instead of one inlvolving the destruction of the multiverse.
He literally got warned by Beerus and Whis. How the f would he not know? Are you really trying to defend him here?
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Saturnine » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:15 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:
pacz360 wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:Seeing as to how Zeno forgot about the tournament completely, and Goku reminded Zeno personally with great enthusiasm despite being warned by BOTH Beerus and Whis , should Goku be blamed if a single person dies in/because of the Universal Survival Arc tournament?

I know Goku is not a hero, but he's trying very hard to become a villain here.
Tbf its not like he knew this would happen he just thought it would be a regular tournament instead of one inlvolving the destruction of the multiverse.
He literally got warned by Beerus and Whis. How the f would he not know? Are you really trying to defend him here?
'
A better question would be "how the hell would he infer that Zeno would impose such a drastic rule just from Beerus' and Whis' vague warnings?"

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:16 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:Seeing as to how Zeno forgot about the tournament completely, and Goku reminded Zeno personally with great enthusiasm despite being warned by BOTH Beerus and Whis , should Goku be blamed if a single person dies in/because of the Universal Survival Arc tournament?

I know Goku is not a hero, but he's trying very hard to become a villain here.
Goku is a hero don't try pushing that stupid meme garbage.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:19 pm

Um yeah? It's Goku holding back against Majin Vegeta and Majin Buu all over again. His negligence, arrogance, and selfishness this time causing multi-universe obliteration.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Blackstripe » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:21 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Goku is a hero don't try pushing that stupid meme garbage.
Gokuu has done heroic things, but here he just gambled with every life in the Multiverse just by giving Zen'o ideas. Zen'o forgetting the tournament was the best thing that could've happened.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Hit!! » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:24 pm

Saturnine wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:
pacz360 wrote: Tbf its not like he knew this would happen he just thought it would be a regular tournament instead of one inlvolving the destruction of the multiverse.
He literally got warned by Beerus and Whis. How the f would he not know? Are you really trying to defend him here?
'
A better question would be "how the hell would he infer that Zeno would impose such a drastic rule just from Beerus' and Whis' vague warnings?"
Vague warnings?? Beerus was literally about to hakai his ass for even thinking about pushing that button... That's no vague warning!! Unless you meant in a very sarcastic way!!

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:31 pm

Blackstripe wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Goku is a hero don't try pushing that stupid meme garbage.
Gokuu has done heroic things, but here he just gambled with every life in the Multiverse just by giving Zen'o ideas. Zen'o forgetting the tournament was the best thing that could've happened.
Again this is Super we're talking about... this assclown who calls himself Goku is not the real Goku in the original manga.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:31 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Goku is a hero don't try pushing that stupid meme garbage.
Goku was never a hero, that's funimation dub trying to make Goku like Superman to appeal to american audience. Goku was always selfish. Except he's about to cause a massive genocide all because he wanted to fight crazy people. Which is as villainous as it gets
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Basaku » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:34 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote: Goku was never a hero
He can use his nimbus because he's said to be totally pure-hearted. Selfisheness to the degree he displayed in today's episode, AFTER getting directly warned by both Whis and Beerus of potential dangerous consequences, rather disqualifies him from being pure hearted. It's playing with fire on a massive scale, with multiple warnings, just because he wants to have some fights.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:38 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Goku is a hero don't try pushing that stupid meme garbage.
Goku was never a hero, that's funimation dub trying to make Goku like Superman to appeal to american audience. Goku was always selfish. Except he's about to cause a massive genocide all because he wanted to fight crazy people. Which is as villainous as it gets
The FUNimation dub does play up his heroic actions (though even then his obsession with fighting still shows) but Goku being benevolent was apparent even in the manga. Sure he's not proactive like Superman but he always went out of his way to help people.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:41 pm

Basaku wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote: He can use his nimbus because he's said to be totally pure-hearted. Selfisheness to the degree he displayed in today's episode, AFTER getting directly warned by both Whis and Beerus of potential dangerous consequences, rather disqualifies him from being pure hearted. It's playing with fire on a massive scale, with multiple warnings, just because he wants to have some fights.
The only reason Beerus hasn't killed Goku today is because main character plot armour. Goku is as dangerous as Zamasu and a ticking time bomb himself. I can't call a guy like this a hero who has zero care about life. Some might try to say Goku is stupid but is he really that stupid? I don't think so. I wonder if Goku has become desensitized to death of people by this point.
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by MKJ » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:49 pm

This episode gave me flashbacks of Zamasu blaming Trunks for everything which resulted with Trunks transforming into something different. I wonder if at some point Goku will receive similar blame for this decision (from himself and/or everyone else) resulting in a new evolution of SS.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by pacz360 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:27 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:
pacz360 wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:Seeing as to how Zeno forgot about the tournament completely, and Goku reminded Zeno personally with great enthusiasm despite being warned by BOTH Beerus and Whis , should Goku be blamed if a single person dies in/because of the Universal Survival Arc tournament?

I know Goku is not a hero, but he's trying very hard to become a villain here.
Tbf its not like he knew this would happen he just thought it would be a regular tournament instead of one inlvolving the destruction of the multiverse.
He literally got warned by Beerus and Whis. How the f would he not know? Are you really trying to defend him here?
He didn't knew this shit was going to happen never said he was innocent in this, but let's be real it's not like goku knew the cost was the destruction of multiple universes and said all right let's do this, all he want was a good fight.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:30 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Goku is a hero don't try pushing that stupid meme garbage.
Goku was never a hero, that's funimation dub trying to make Goku like Superman to appeal to american audience. Goku was always selfish. Except he's about to cause a massive genocide all because he wanted to fight crazy people. Which is as villainous as it gets
Goku crossed that line years ago when he let Vegeta live just to fight him again in the Saiyan arc. That act lead to so many people dying.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by pacz360 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:32 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Goku is a hero don't try pushing that stupid meme garbage.
Goku was never a hero, that's funimation dub trying to make Goku like Superman to appeal to american audience. Goku was always selfish. Except he's about to cause a massive genocide all because he wanted to fight crazy people. Which is as villainous as it gets
Goku crossed that line years ago when let Vegeta live. That act lead to so many people dying.
Without vegeta they would've been fucked on namek considering he took dodoria and zarbon and most of the ginyu force and saved gohan life.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:35 pm

pacz360 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:
Goku was never a hero, that's funimation dub trying to make Goku like Superman to appeal to american audience. Goku was always selfish. Except he's about to cause a massive genocide all because he wanted to fight crazy people. Which is as villainous as it gets
Goku crossed that line years ago when let Vegeta live. That act lead to so many people dying.
Without vegeta they would've been fucked on namek considering he took dodoria and zarbon and most of the ginyu force and saved gohan life.
But at the same time, Vegeta was greatly responsible for billions of people dying later on. It was double edge sword to say the very least. He honestly created way more problems then he actually solved.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by pacz360 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:40 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
pacz360 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Goku crossed that line years ago when let Vegeta live. That act lead to so many people dying.
Without vegeta they would've been fucked on namek considering he took dodoria and zarbon and most of the ginyu force and saved gohan life.
But at the same time, Vegeta was greatly responsible for billions of people dying later on. It was double edge sword to say the very least. He honestly created way more problems then he actually solved.
What problems did vegeta create exactly? Besides Obvious ones like cell and buu which not even completly on him.

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Re: Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

Post by Chuquita » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:47 pm

Gokû's definitely to be blamed. Beerus and Whis warned him. Beerus should've "hakai"ed Gokû's Omni King button instead of threatening to destroy Gokû himself.
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