Who's the superior warrior: Goku or Black?

[SansrivaaL]

I dont know if we're talking about hax and powerlevels here or their overall smarts when it comes to skills/techniques and adaptability which I thought was the original question?
If the question becomes who is more powerful and has the better hax then its Black, if its about skills, adaptability and technique then Black couldnt even hold his own against Vegeta anymore, so he had his hax win for him with having mutiple clones of himself, alone without hax Vegeta would have stomped Black the same way it ended up in the manga.
If we also look at it in universe, Goku didnt even try and pull out kaioken until merged Zamasu came into the picture, meaning Goku thought "nah, we can handle him without kaioken"

All I'll to this is Black appaetnly was more then confident he could take Vegeta and even Goku. The clones were only to keep them tied up till Zamasu killed the others, and act that was ordered by Black to make Vegeta and Goku stronger. From that its clear Black didn't see Veget as a threat.

But he never see's anyone as a threat, because he knows his weird ass zenkai will kick in, when you're in a position where you know you'll get stronger by getting your ass whooped, then its not really a question if you'll see anyone as a threat. Vegeta kicked Black's ass so hard that he had to rely on clones to get his job done, thought this was obvious. So yeah hax and powerlevel wise, Black>Vegeta=Goku, skill/technique/adapt wise Goku>Black.
Another sad part is... Black and Zamasu got their ass whooped by a Goku (who he was just kicking around moments ago) who had a huge ass hole in his chest, their powerlevels shouldnt have been that far apart at the time, yes you can call it rage boost like Rageta, but if that was the case, Goku 100% pissed woulda went SSJBKKx10 on those 2 mfckers, but we cant have that or else Future Trunks wouldnt have had his time to shine with that nakama bs genki dama sword.

[SansrivaaL]

Ok wait no... I'm not enjoying this, Black is my favorite antagonist.... and Vegeta's one of my least favorite main characters..... why the hell am I standing up for Vegeta when it should be the other way around, I'll leave it at this, saying Vegeta kicked Black's ass so hard just doesnt seem right.

[Doctor.]

Black clearly has the highest potential, but Goku is likely the superior fighter.

[Ki Breaker]

For manga my pick will be goku
For anime it's a tie, black has edge in some areas and goku has in some other areas, it's hard to say who will win when it comes to being a better fighter

[Lord Frieza]

I dont know if we're talking about hax and powerlevels here or their overall smarts when it comes to skills/techniques and adaptability which I thought was the original question?
If the question becomes who is more powerful and has the better hax then its Black, if its about skills, adaptability and technique then Black couldnt even hold his own against Vegeta anymore, so he had his hax win for him with having mutiple clones of himself, alone without hax Vegeta would have stomped Black the same way it ended up in the manga.
If we also look at it in universe, Goku didnt even try and pull out kaioken until merged Zamasu came into the picture, meaning Goku thought "nah, we can handle him without kaioken"

All I'll to this is Black appaetnly was more then confident he could take Vegeta and even Goku. The clones were only to keep them tied up till Zamasu killed the others, and act that was ordered by Black to make Vegeta and Goku stronger. From that its clear Black didn't see Veget as a threat.

But he never see's anyone as a threat, because he knows his weird ass zenkai will kick in, when you're in a position where you know you'll get stronger by getting your ass whooped, then its not really a question if you'll see anyone as a threat. Vegeta kicked Black's ass so hard that he had to rely on clones to get his job done, thought this was obvious. So yeah hax and powerlevel wise, Black>Vegeta=Goku, skill/technique/adapt wise Goku>Black.
Another sad part is... Black and Zamasu got their ass whooped by a Goku (who he was just kicking around moments ago) who had a huge ass hole in his chest, their powerlevels shouldnt have been that far apart at the time, yes you can call it rage boost like Rageta, but if that was the case, Goku 100% pissed woulda went SSJBKKx10 on those 2 mfckers, but we cant have that or else Future Trunks wouldnt have had his time to shine with that nakama bs genki dama sword.

I cant argue with you there, this arc while great has its issues.

However this it looking what Goku and Black bring to the table not just skill and nothing to do with power. While Goku is the all round better fight, Black pragmatisam and adaptability combined with his potental for rapide growth and improvment easily help him match Goku. Black's powers may be hax but thats what he brings to a fight and if that gives him an edge well then just tough no matter how unfair it seems. In a battle of life and death alls fair.

[TheMathemagician]

All I'll to this is Black appaetnly was more then confident he could take Vegeta and even Goku. The clones were only to keep them tied up till Zamasu killed the others, and act that was ordered by Black to make Vegeta and Goku stronger. From that its clear Black didn't see Veget as a threat.

But he never see's anyone as a threat, because he knows his weird ass zenkai will kick in, when you're in a position where you know you'll get stronger by getting your ass whooped, then its not really a question if you'll see anyone as a threat. Vegeta kicked Black's ass so hard that he had to rely on clones to get his job done, thought this was obvious. So yeah hax and powerlevel wise, Black>Vegeta=Goku, skill/technique/adapt wise Goku>Black.
Another sad part is... Black and Zamasu got their ass whooped by a Goku (who he was just kicking around moments ago) who had a huge ass hole in his chest, their powerlevels shouldnt have been that far apart at the time, yes you can call it rage boost like Rageta, but if that was the case, Goku 100% pissed woulda went SSJBKKx10 on those 2 mfckers, but we cant have that or else Future Trunks wouldnt have had his time to shine with that nakama bs genki dama sword.

I cant argue with you there, this arc while great has its issues.

However this it looking what Goku and Black bring to the table not just skill and nothing to do with power. While Goku is the all round better fight, Black pragmatisam and adaptability combined with his potental for rapide growth and improvment easily help him match Goku. Black's powers may be hax but thats what he brings to a fight and if that gives him an edge well then just tough no matter how unfair it seems. In a battle of life and death alls fair.

This is true, though if Goku really was going for the kill on Black, I have no doubt a SSBKKx10 Goku could put Black down.

[Lord Frieza]

This is true, though if Goku really was going for the kill on Black, I have no doubt a SSBKKx10 Goku could put Black down.

I've wondered abut that, when Black told Goku what he'd done to Chi-Chi and Goten he was that angery. I've wondered if the reason he didn't use it was because he still had not mastered it and was still subcontuslly worried about what King Kai had told him about not being albe to fight again if he over used to much. But thats speculation o my part.

[Freeza9000]

I mean, Black has a lot of haxed abilities such as his constant increase in strength and Zamasu's abilities/techniques continuously evolving in Goku's body. Even to the point where his powerful scythe was able to create a rift in space-time and summon clones of himself. Goku does have Kaioken up his sleeve and seeing how it's performed in the current arc, Goku seems to be demonstrating a greater degree of control of the form. So Goku could have some sort of edge over Black with KK, though it's possible that Black could tap into Kaioken considering the fact that he's in Goku's body (or get another huge powerup).

[TheMathemagician]

This is true, though if Goku really was going for the kill on Black, I have no doubt a SSBKKx10 Goku could put Black down.

I've wondered abut that, when Black told Goku what he'd done to Chi-Chi and Goten he was that angery. I've wondered if the reason he didn't use it was because he still had not mastered it and was still subcontuslly worried about what King Kai had told him about not being albe to fight again if he over used to much. But thats speculation o my part.

Maybe, but he sure had no problem using it against Zamasu when he had two broken arms and a broken leg. He could have easily used SSBKK, especially since when he raged out, I don't see him caring enough about what Kaio Sama said to not at least try it. I don't really know why he wouldn't use the move when he could have given himself a good chance of beating Black.

[DHM211]

Black not only has the experience of a Kioshin in training and Zamasus full arsenal of techniques, he was able to enhance them, as seen with the Ki Sword, and how he evolved it 3 times. He also has all of Gokus abilities and techniques. He also has more then 2 functioning brain cells. I think Black is the superior warrior.

[Miracles]

Black beat Goku.
Goku never defeated Black.
Vegeta bodied Black.
Vegeta > Black > Goku.

[kaioken12]

Well, there is quite some clear evidence that Goku is the superior warrior - actually, by far.

His Kamehameha (even without Kaioken) won against fused Zamasu's attack. And fused Zamasu is obviously much stronger than Goku Black had been.
Another hint is that using Kaioken, Goku could actually damage fused Zamasu, even though he could only use his legs at that time.


(Jokes and fun aside though, there is of course also a lot of evidence hinting at Black being stronger. However, the very inconsistent writing makes it completely impossible to determine the better warrior using facts / the presented plot. Simply, because there are no consistent facts. At all. I am still baffled, how this initially very promising arc could end in such a mess. But whatever.)

[GigaDrill]

Black clearly has the highest potential, but Goku is likely the superior fighter.

Are you implying that Zamasu knows how to augment Goku's power better than Goku himself?

[Boo Machine]

Black may be more creative considering the giant energy scythe he makes, and has some cool moves in his own right, but Goku is still the better fighter I would say. Not hard to believe since it's what he has worked he whole life for the martial arts.

But Black has more years of tea making under his belt so that's nice.

[Doctor.]

Black clearly has the highest potential, but Goku is likely the superior fighter.

Are you implying that Zamasu knows how to augment Goku's power better than Goku himself?

Considering Black was vastly stronger than anyone else in the arc (including Goku himself) and has a broken power-up ability due to Zamasu's mind or something, then yes. Vegeta's line about only Goku being able to use his body makes no sense considering Black ended up as the strongest unfused fighter by the end of the arc.

[GigaDrill]

Vegeta's line about only Goku being able to use his body makes no sense considering Black ended up as the strongest unfused fighter by the end of the arc.

Likely because Vegeta was beating him into the dirt while saying that

[Doctor.]

Vegeta's line about only Goku being able to use his body makes no sense considering Black ended up as the strongest unfused fighter by the end of the arc.

Likely because Vegeta was beating him into the dirt while saying that

And it still made no sense because, as far as he knew, Black was still stronger than Goku at that point and arrived at the same point Goku did, strength-wise, in far less time.

[GigaDrill]

and arrived at the same point Goku did, strength-wise, in far less time.

Wasn't the Goku that Black switched bodies with the same Goku that had just gone through the Universe 6 tournament with Hit? Therefore, wasn't Black was just learning to bring out the power that already existed?

[Doctor.]

and arrived at the same point Goku did, strength-wise, in far less time.

Wasn't the Goku that Black switched bodies with the same Goku that had just gone through the Universe 6 tournament with Hit? Therefore, wasn't Black was just learning to bring out the power that already existed?

Pretty much, but he still got stronger. Black's base form was equal to Super Saiyan 2 Goku (and he was holding back, according to Trunks) and he even powered-up later in the arc.

[MagmonKai]

It's strange that Goku Black was able to make up those abilities with Goku's body. That means Goku has the ability to make up any move he likes, cool ones like the scythe, yet he doesn't. I wonder why he doesn't do anything cool besides the KMH. I mean that's all he knows how to do now besides punch really hard. I liked Black because of his abilities and the know how to use them in combat. Black even though he was cheap imitation knew how to use the body better than the original to get the maximum effort.