Who's the superior warrior: Goku or Black?

[Lord Frieza]

This is based aroud Goku Black in the anime, manga Black is turning out to be a punk.



So who do you guys think is the superioir warrior? I'm not talking power, I'm talking in skill, adaptability and fighting style. We can also fator in potential as well.

[SansrivaaL]

I'll lean towards Goku for the simple reason of Vegeta's line when he was kicking Black's ass.
"Shall I tell you where you miscalculated? that body, down to the very cores of its cells was made by Kakarot's long fierce history of combat, to you its a mere borrowed vessel, only an idiot like him can use the saiyan cells within it to its fullest"
meaning that to Vegeta, if the original Goku from that timeline was the one using its body, he would be more of a challenge than Black who merely untaps the powers of that Goku to match them. Goku doesnt do it like that, he fights equally against someone, never saw him as the guy who would pull a SSJ3 against Piccolo just to mock him of how weak he is, whereas Black relies on Goku's power.

[Zamasu55]

Well, Goku got completely stomped in their last fight.
And it was already stated that SsjR Black (schyte) is the strongest character of the arc besides Beerus, Whis and the fusions.

But I don't think this thread's about power... So yes, Goku's a superior fighter.

[Lord Frieza]

I acctually lean more towards Black myself and I find Vegeta "saiyan purity" speech to be full of hot air just like his old ones used to be.

In terms of adaptability Black has shown to be superiror to Goku on action. He's ability to copy Goku's fighting style, unlocking and master SSR and learn to tap into "saiyan rage" power are feats on par with or superior to Goku's. The biggest on being his almost instantly mastery of his "Reality Mist Clone" a power he didn't even know he was capable of.

Black fighting style is more leathel then Goku. While both like to "play", Black will go for the jugular befor things get out of control, unlike Goku.

In terms of personal growth Black dose seem a bit lacking in comparision to Goku...untl you realise they have different goals which affect how they act. Goku just wants to get strong and fight strong people while Black has a multi-universe master plan. Killing the GoD the way he did was a nasesity as they could have killed him outright for what he was doing and his targating of U7, the least defended in Trunks's time alo go alng with that idea. Its only until Gku and Vegeta show up that he can really test himself against powerful foeswho are not going to kill him outright from the start. So really the pair break even here.

The biggest thing Goku has over Black is his kaio-ken but Black can match those with his hax Zenkai. Goku has the intitail power edge in a fight but if it goes o for to long Black will surpass him.

So I personally find Black as haveing the edge. Also along with being full of hot air, I find Vegeta's speech laughable since in the very next episode Black not only copy "Saiyan Rage" and backs both Goku and Vegeta into a corner on his own.

But as show in the series Goku and Co have one thing Black will never have....friends and allies.

[BlueBasilisk]

In terms of pure technique, I think Goku is far and away the better of the two. Most of the difficulty with Black comes from his instant power-ups and ability to whip out new abilities on the fly. We're told that Zamasu is a fighting prodigy and he does seem to be unusually strong for a shinjin, but I think he wins over his foes due to his secondary abilities more than his fighting prowess.

[Lord Frieza]

In terms of pure technique, I think Goku is far and away the better of the two. Most of the difficulty with Black comes from his instant power-ups and ability to whip out new abilities on the fly. We're told that Zamasu is a fighting prodigy and he does seem to be unusually strong for a shinjin, but I think he wins over his foes due to his secondary abilities more than his fighting prowess.

So Goku is the better fight but Black unique states effects and copycatting/adaptablity make up for he's gap in skill?

So in there own way there kind of even but in diffrent way. I can get behind that.

[Yomi]

I think all the instant Zenkai boost and crazy abilities puts Black up there,
his Manga counterpart though... ugh, what a waste. I'd say in the Anime, Black's probably better at winning fights.
While Goku might technically be the better martial artist.

[Lord Frieza]

I think all the instant Zenkai boost and crazy abilities puts Black up there,
his Manga counterpart though... ugh, what a waste. I'd say in the Anime, Black's probably better at winning fights.
While Goku might technically be the better martial artist.

I think TV Tropes summed up Manga Black perfectly

Dirty Coward: Manga Black comes off as this since he brags about how he murdered the gods while fighting Vegeta and how his word is now law. Goku points out that Black technically cheated since he didn't fight the Gods of Destruction and just killed the weaker Supreme Kais since their lives are linked. Black shoots back that the method doesn't matter. While Black in the anime did the same thing, he comes off less cowardly and more pragmatic since no one calls him out for 'cheating' and he didn't use the death of the gods as a Badass Boast. Also in the manga, Black chose Future Trunks' timeline because Beerus died thanks to Future Dabura killing all the Supreme Kais and Goku and the others are long dead, leaving no one powerful enough to stop him. Which makes Black look like a bully since he torments Trunks to get stronger, after he purposely avoided anyone who could challenged him. Black having a Villainous Breakdown as Vegeta beats him up highlights this trait. Also, when Gowasu and the the U7's Supreme Kai saves Future Trunks and Mai, he becomes scared that they may tell Zen'o what happened, so Future Zamasu and he are ready to flee into another timeline. In the anime, Black never mentions Zen'o, although it's unclear if he simply didn't fear Zen'o or he did't think he would interfere.

Edit: Bond Villain Stupidity: In the manga, he falls for many of the same failings as Perfect Cell. He keeps Future Trunks alive for the sake of growing stronger and because he enjoys fighting, while anime Black tries to kill Trunks whenever he gets the chance, although he doesn't hunt Trunks as much as he should.

[dragonballgeek]

I think all the instant Zenkai boost and crazy abilities puts Black up there,
his Manga counterpart though... ugh, what a waste. I'd say in the Anime, Black's probably better at winning fights.
While Goku might technically be the better martial artist.

I think TV Tropes summed up Manga Black perfectly

Dirty Coward: Manga Black comes off as this since he brags about how he murdered the gods while fighting Vegeta and how his word is now law. Goku points out that Black technically cheated since he didn't fight the Gods of Destruction and just killed the weaker Supreme Kais since their lives are linked. Black shoots back that the method doesn't matter. While Black in the anime did the same thing, he comes off less cowardly and more pragmatic since no one calls him out for 'cheating' and he didn't use the death of the gods as a Badass Boast. Also in the manga, Black chose Future Trunks' timeline because Beerus died thanks to Future Dabura killing all the Supreme Kais and Goku and the others are long dead, leaving no one powerful enough to stop him. Which makes Black look like a bully since he torments Trunks to get stronger, after he purposely avoided anyone who could challenged him. Black having a Villainous Breakdown as Vegeta beats him up highlights this trait. Also, when Gowasu and the the U7's Supreme Kai saves Future Trunks and Mai, he becomes scared that they may tell Zen'o what happened, so Future Zamasu and he are ready to flee into another timeline. In the anime, Black never mentions Zen'o, although it's unclear if he simply didn't fear Zen'o or he did't think he would interfere.

Edit: Bond Villain Stupidity: In the manga, he falls for many of the same failings as Perfect Cell. He keeps Future Trunks alive for the sake of growing stronger and because he enjoys fighting, while anime Black tries to kill Trunks whenever he gets the chance, although he doesn't hunt Trunks as much as he should.

The way Present Zamasu was acting towards Beerus, Whis and Goku, I have a feeling he was just an idiot who wasn't scared.

I still don't get him. Beerus was right in front of you.. Why not try to run? Haha


But I believe Black is stronger. I think they intentionally left Blacks character and strength a mystery.

[SaiyanGod117]

Goku. Black is just Zamasu inside Goku's body and Goku is more skilled than Zamasu, as shown when they fought in Universe 10.

[TheMathemagician]

This is based aroud Goku Black in the anime, manga Black is turning out to be a punk.



So who do you guys think is the superioir warrior? I'm not talking power, I'm talking in skill, adaptability and fighting style. We can also fator in potential as well.

I feel Goku is the smarter fighter, but Black is better at adapting.

Well, Goku got completely stomped in their last fight.
And it was already stated that SsjR Black (schyte) is the strongest character of the arc besides Beerus, Whis and the fusions.

But I don't think this thread's about power... So yes, Goku's a superior fighter.

Wasn't that statement made before the Hit episodes, where it was confirmed Goku and Hit had improved greatly since the U6 Tournament? Black and Current Hit should be on par, and SSB Goku managed to stalemate Hit. SSBKKx10 would probably curbstomp Black.

Regardless though, Black is deadlier, has more hax, and can get stronger much faster and adapt much faster. However, I see Goku being the smarter fighter of the two and being the more skilled fighter (though I don't see the gap being very big). Current SSB Goku should be on par with SSR Black and Kaioken could tip the scales in Goku's favor.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Vegeta said it the best he may have Goku's body but he's still no Goku.

[Lord Frieza]

Vegeta said it the best he may have Goku's body but he's still no Goku.

and I say Veget's full of crap, especially when after he little speech Black becme even more powerful and was able to back him and Goku into a corner.

[The gr]

I think all the instant Zenkai boost and crazy abilities puts Black up there,
his Manga counterpart though... ugh, what a waste. I'd say in the Anime, Black's probably better at winning fights.
While Goku might technically be the better martial artist.

I think TV Tropes summed up Manga Black perfectly

Dirty Coward: Manga Black comes off as this since he brags about how he murdered the gods while fighting Vegeta and how his word is now law. Goku points out that Black technically cheated since he didn't fight the Gods of Destruction and just killed the weaker Supreme Kais since their lives are linked. Black shoots back that the method doesn't matter. While Black in the anime did the same thing, he comes off less cowardly and more pragmatic since no one calls him out for 'cheating' and he didn't use the death of the gods as a Badass Boast. Also in the manga, Black chose Future Trunks' timeline because Beerus died thanks to Future Dabura killing all the Supreme Kais and Goku and the others are long dead, leaving no one powerful enough to stop him. Which makes Black look like a bully since he torments Trunks to get stronger, after he purposely avoided anyone who could challenged him. Black having a Villainous Breakdown as Vegeta beats him up highlights this trait. Also, when Gowasu and the the U7's Supreme Kai saves Future Trunks and Mai, he becomes scared that they may tell Zen'o what happened, so Future Zamasu and he are ready to flee into another timeline. In the anime, Black never mentions Zen'o, although it's unclear if he simply didn't fear Zen'o or he did't think he would interfere.

Hey is similar to my deep anaylisis [spoiler]Manga Goku black is a metaphor for a bully because he flees from his original timeline due to being a weakling who couldn't properly use Goku's body. To get stronger, he bullied Future Trunks for over a year. When he finally meets someone who can beat him up, he whines and cries about it and only becomes smug again when he has the advantage.And trunks is metaphor for standing up and he call his Dad Vegeta to beat up Goku black,but when the black humiliated the prince,the prince Vegeta trains and bully the bigger bully and being smug like him, meanwhile black don't enjoy this, and gowasu is like the principal, tried to talk him out of this nonesense and give advice, but he ignores it and stabs him[/spoiler]on topic, goku has more potential, and he is more skilled, and the fact the could use the kaioken meanwhile black didn't,is a proof that goku could even go to higher strength​, and DBS episode 82, hints that he was going to surpass his limits.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Vegeta said it the best he may have Goku's body but he's still no Goku.

and I say Veget's full of crap, especially when after he little speech Black becme even more powerful and was able to back him and Goku into a corner.

I wouldn't say Black became more powerful he was trying to pull stuff out like the scythe he said even he didn't know what was gonna happen, if Black truly was more powerful-er after the Vegeta beat up then there wouldn't have been any need to fuse with Zamasu.

[emperior]

I think Goku and Black are exactly on par skill-wise when they are on the same power level.
But Goku is a much smarter fighter and has far more battle experience than Black has so, on a battle between the two on the same power level, Goku would win because he would eventually find a way to beat Black.

[Lord Frieza]

Vegeta said it the best he may have Goku's body but he's still no Goku.

and I say Veget's full of crap, especially when after he little speech Black becme even more powerful and was able to back him and Goku into a corner.

I wouldn't say Black became more powerful he was trying to pull stuff out like the scythe he said even he didn't know what was gonna happen, if Black truly was more powerful-er after the Vegeta beat up then there wouldn't have been any need to fuse with Zamasu.

I'm going to have to say your flat out wrong there.

After pulling his scyth trick, Black told Zamasu to go and kill Bulma, Trunks and Mai bcause it would make them angrier, which would make them stronger and then he could grow stronger from fighting them. Black then proceeded to competely lock down Goku and Vegeta by himself with his "reality mist clones". The clones continually reformed and mutiplied, wearing the duo down. Black only stopped his attack because he felt Zamasu get sealed away and went to investigate. When he got there Zamasu told him they had underestimated the mortal and that they were a threat. Black and Zamasu, being probably the most pragmatic villains in db history, decided to fuse. Black did it purley on Zamasu's say so and Zamasu only did it because of the Mafuba.

In hind sight they didn't even need to fuse and they could have still won in the end, its just that Zamasu didn't know about the limits of the Mafuba and feared it.

Black wanting to make Goku and Vegeta even stronger, so he can grow stronger, dose not in any way seem like the actions of someone who's despereate or at a disadvantage to me.

[SansrivaaL]

I dont know if we're talking about hax and powerlevels here or their overall smarts when it comes to skills/techniques and adaptability which I thought was the original question?
If the question becomes who is more powerful and has the better hax then its Black, if its about skills, adaptability and technique then Black couldnt even hold his own against Vegeta anymore, so he had his hax win for him with having mutiple clones of himself, alone without hax Vegeta would have stomped Black the same way it ended up in the manga.
If we also look at it in universe, Goku didnt even try and pull out kaioken until merged Zamasu came into the picture, meaning Goku thought "nah, we can handle him without kaioken"

[Steven Bloodriver]

This is based aroud Goku Black in the anime, manga Black is turning out to be a punk.



So who do you guys think is the superioir warrior? I'm not talking power, I'm talking in skill, adaptability and fighting style. We can also fator in potential as well.

The genuine Son Goku is the far superior warrior when compared to his fourth rate-copy.

[Lord Frieza]

I dont know if we're talking about hax and powerlevels here or their overall smarts when it comes to skills/techniques and adaptability which I thought was the original question?
If the question becomes who is more powerful and has the better hax then its Black, if its about skills, adaptability and technique then Black couldnt even hold his own against Vegeta anymore, so he had his hax win for him with having mutiple clones of himself, alone without hax Vegeta would have stomped Black the same way it ended up in the manga.
If we also look at it in universe, Goku didnt even try and pull out kaioken until merged Zamasu came into the picture, meaning Goku thought "nah, we can handle him without kaioken"

All I'll to this is Black appaetnly was more then confident he could take Vegeta and even Goku. The clones were only to keep them tied up till Zamasu killed the others, and act that was ordered by Black to make Vegeta and Goku stronger. From that its clear Black didn't see Veget as a threat.