Ultra Instinct - A Thread for Theory Crafting and Discussion

[GodVegetto91]

I have a feeling that THIS will be the "complete" and mastered form for Goku to use.



Notice how this look is very different from the one we saw in the actual anime? I doubt they'd added that red/pinkish aura on top of his already existing one for no reason. It must be the final look.

This is in response to the fact that Dokkan Battle calls Goku's form that appeared in the special Ultra Instinct "Omen". Meaning, a sign of things to come, i.e. not the final look.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, if the first look we get at this state is Ultra Instinct "Omen", what could we potentially call a possible mastered version?

Ultra Instinct "Legend"? Ultra Instinct "Beyond"?

Mega Ultra Instinct Chicken? (BTW, a thousand brownie points to whoever gets the reference)

[HeroR]

So, if the first look we get at this state is Ultra Instinct "Omen", what could we potentially call a possible mastered version?

Ultra Instinct "Legend"? Ultra Instinct "Beyond"?

Mega Ultra Instinct Chicken? (BTW, a thousand brownie points to whoever gets the reference)

Ultra Instinct Complete/Perfect is what is likely.

[Herms]

Because, the literal translation of "Migatte no Gokui" is something like "Secret of the Selfish" of "Secret of the Egocentric". Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Might as well give my Full Notes (TM) on the subject:

The form’s name in Japanese:
身勝手の極意
Migatte no Goku’i

身勝手/migatte typically means “selfish”, although when you break it down, 身 means body while 勝手 can mean “of one’s own accord” (as in 勝手に). With all the emphasis on Goku’s dodging and fast reactions in this state, and the way this seems to tie in with Whis’s teachings about getting each part of one’s body to move on its own, it seems they had wordplay in mind and that in context 身勝手/migatte is supposed to suggest one’s body moving on its own. With that in mind, it seems this is the part of the name which the official subtitles translate as “instinct”.

極意/goku’i means the deepest level of an art or skill, secret teaching, innermost secrets…etc, etc. Basically a fancy way of saying a secret, something known only to the masters of an art and not to the noobs. That is its typical meaning as a set phrase, anyway. When you break it down though, 極/goku means “extreme” and 意/i means “thoughts” or “mind”.

In that light, there may be more wordplay intended here, with the term in this context meant to suggest “extreme mind”, which also ties in with Goku’s increased reaction speed, as if he’s in a heightened state of awareness. Anyway, with 極/goku means “extreme”, it seems this is the part of the name which the official subtitles translate as “ultra”.

Keep in mind that this 極/goku is unrelated to the name of our hero 悟空/Gokuu (written with two characters roughly meaning “Aware of the Void”, and with kuu here having an elongated vowel sound). With all the other potential wordplay going on in the name, it’s hard to completely rule out an intended connection, but take it from me that in Japanese 極/goku and 悟空/Gokuu are quite different.

The の/no in the middle there is a possessive or linking particle; precisely how you translate it is highly context dependent. If we translate 身勝手/migatte as “selfish” and 極意/goku’i as “secret”, then の/no could be translated as “of” or as an apostrophe: so you get “Secret of Selfishness” or “Selfishness’ Secret”. The official subtitles leave it out entirely, presumably taking the relationship between the two parts of the name as implicit, and so we get “Ultra Instinct”.

Dokkan Battle and some other merchandise have also referred to Goku in this state as 身勝手の極意“兆”. Now, 兆/“chou” means “trillion”, but 兆し/kizashi means an “omen”, a sign of things to come. Since Goku has not yet fully mastered this state but presumably will in the future, it seems that they are implying this temporary transformation seen in ep.110 is an omen of the fully mastered state to come, in which case translating this term as Ultra Instinct “Omen” seems appropriate. Unless they were going for “trillion”, though it’s less clear what that would mean in this context. I guess we’ll have to see how this is handled in the English version of Dokkan Battle.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

First off, wow, I never thought the mighty and immortal Herms would grace this thread I made.

Second, I just thought of a potential addendum to add to how the Ultra Instinct works.

So, besides the technique of mastering your body's movements to such a degree that it reacts without input from your mind, Whis also taught Goku and Vegeta to keep their Ki within themselves without it leaking, as well as to only raise it when they attack to maximize striking power. What if the Ultra Instinct could do the same?

Maybe, along with being able to react independent of the user, the Ultra Instinct can also regulate their Ki for maximized focused power when the body strikes at an opponent, thus allowing a user to strike at almost anyone regardless of ordinary power level differences. It'd make it much easier to believe that the gods would fear such a technique if it effectively renders their massive power levels redundant in a fight.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Based on what Whis said, I'm pretty sure the way that it works is that movements like dodging, counterattacking, and blocking occur automatically with no conscious input, just like breathing and your heart beating in real life. So if someone tried to sneak up behind you and punch you, and you didn't even know you were there, your body would automatically block it and hit him to protect you, just like your heart beats to pump your blood without you being conscious of it.

[emperior]

Based on what Whis said, I'm pretty sure the way that it works is that movements like dodging, counterattacking, and blocking occur automatically with no conscious input, just like breathing and your heart beating in real life. So if someone tried to sneak up behind you and punch you, and you didn't even know you were there, your body would automatically block it and hit him to protect you, just like your heart beats to pump your blood without you being conscious of it.

Goku's body also attacks on its own. It's why everyone was commenting about Goku's movements being unreal and not his usual ones.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Based on what Whis said, I'm pretty sure the way that it works is that movements like dodging, counterattacking, and blocking occur automatically with no conscious input, just like breathing and your heart beating in real life. So if someone tried to sneak up behind you and punch you, and you didn't even know you were there, your body would automatically block it and hit him to protect you, just like your heart beats to pump your blood without you being conscious of it.

Goku's body also attacks on its own. It's why everyone was commenting about Goku's movements being unreal and not his usual ones.

That's what I said. Theoretically if you had this you might beat someone up and then not even realize you did it.

[majinwarman]

So, with the release of episodes 109 and 110 of Dragon Ball Super, we have our first look at this all new power that's never been seen before.......... Or has it?

The Crunchyroll subs refer to it as "Ultra Instinct", whilst pure Japanese translation roughly puts it as "Master of Self-Improvement" or "Secret of Selfishness" and seems to be inspired by the Mushin style of martial arts. For the purposes of this thread and my own comments elsewhere, I shall henceforth be referring to this state/technique as "Ultra Instinct" from this point forward until we get an official OFFICIAL name.

So what is it, exactly? As early as Resurrection of F, the movie AND the arc, we have Whis training Goku and Vegeta. He tells the two of them that his body can react and move without any input from his mind, allowing him to fight much more effectively. Even Beerus hasn't mastered this technique. As of the latest two episodes of the current anime, it seems that the Gods of Destruction as a whole haven't learned how to use the Ultra Instinct that well. They're extremely shocked to see that a mortal like Goku has managed to use it so effectively, and Goku himself seems to fight and act much more differently when using the Ultra Instinct, being able to effortlessly predict and counter blows. So, to summarize, the Ultra Instinct, in its purest sense, is the ability to reflexively fight without having to think about your actions.

But what if there's more? The Gods of Destruction seem to greatly fear this state of being, despite it seeming to only be a way of fighting more skillfully. What makes it so special, then? That's where I think the Angels come in.

It's implied that Angels as a whole are simply stronger than the Gods of Destruction they attend to. If that's the case, why is it then that only these Gods of Destruction are ever played up for their power to destroy universes? This is where my own speculation on this matter comes into play.

Although Whis is the only one explicitly said to be able to truly use the Ultra Instinct, let's say that his Angel siblings aren't that different in that regard. Maybe the reason the Ultra Instinct is so feared is that it serves as a literal power to even the playing field. Maybe Angels don't need to really have high power levels in the traditional sense that this franchise has often espoused in order to be better fighters than even their Gods of Destruction. It's possible that the Ultra Instinct fine-tunes one's ability to fight so well that, no matter their power level, they can skillfully dance around other martial artists and focus their energies so that they'll always be able to dodge, block, or hurt their opponents.

The next part of my thinking is that Gods of Destruction need to have a traditionally high power level combined with a little bit of training in the art of the Ultra Instinct in order to be as fearsome as they are. Thus, this is the reason why fighters like Toppo and SSB Vegeta in the manga are considered potential candidates for the position: they've reached a high enough level on their own that, with a little bit of Ultra Instinct training, they can become good enough fighters to suit the position of God of Destruction. And now, with Goku, we see that briefly mastering the Ultra Instinct allows him to fight toe-to-toe with Jiren, a mortal whose power may possibly eclipse even a God of Destruction.

So, that's all my two cents on the matter. Feel free to add your own thoughts, criticisms, points, etc. This is just to stir up discussion on the matter and have some fun doing so.

I really like your post and agree with your statements. All I have to say is please don't let this be a one time thing. There are people wanting that to happen and I can't disagree more. This opens up new possibility for Vegeta, Gohan, and even Freeza to abstain this state or form as well.

[SansrivaaL]

Despite popular belief I'm staying with this new state Migatte no Goku’i as something more of a technique than an actual transformation with Goku’s eyes going silver and hair standing up as a side effect.

All I have to say is please don't let this be a one time thing. There are people wanting that to happen and I can't disagree more. This opens up new possibility for Vegeta, Gohan, and even Freeza to abstain this state or form as well.

No way, Migatte no Goku’i will definitely make a comeback, we have yet to see him shirtless with it, he’ll get better using that technique, I have a feeling Freeza may learn that technique as well.

[emperior]

Based on what Whis said, I'm pretty sure the way that it works is that movements like dodging, counterattacking, and blocking occur automatically with no conscious input, just like breathing and your heart beating in real life. So if someone tried to sneak up behind you and punch you, and you didn't even know you were there, your body would automatically block it and hit him to protect you, just like your heart beats to pump your blood without you being conscious of it.

Goku's body also attacks on its own. It's why everyone was commenting about Goku's movements being unreal and not his usual ones.

That's what I said. Theoretically if you had this you might beat someone up and then not even realize you did it.

Hopefully thieves will leave Goku alone now, or else he might unadvertely blow them up.

[emperior]

Despite popular belief I'm staying with this new state Migatte no Goku’i as something more of a technique than an actual transformation with Goku’s eyes going silver and hair standing up as a side effect.

All I have to say is please don't let this be a one time thing. There are people wanting that to happen and I can't disagree more. This opens up new possibility for Vegeta, Gohan, and even Freeza to abstain this state or form as well.

No way, Migatte no Goku’i will definitely make a comeback, we have yet to see him shirtless with it, he’ll get better using that technique, I have a feeling Freeza may learn that technique as well.

Ultra Instinct is a technique, though it felt more like a mystique power - like the Force in Star Wars. Maybe I'm the only one who feels like this, but I love this feeling of "mysterious power" it gave me. That's because Goku unlocked it mysteriously, and I know it will probably lose its mysticity over time.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Goku's body also attacks on its own. It's why everyone was commenting about Goku's movements being unreal and not his usual ones.

That's what I said. Theoretically if you had this you might beat someone up and then not even realize you did it.

Hopefully thieves will leave Goku alone now, or else he might unadvertely blow them up.

Could lead to an interesting moral dilemma though. Imagine Goku on trial for murder because his body killed an innocent person without his knowledge.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

You know, this Ultra Instinct makes me wonder.......

How would a fight go between two equal masters of this technique? I mean, both of their bodies would be able to react equally well to each other. Would it be a case of an infinite stalemate, in that case?

An interesting idea, at the very least.

[Simere]

You know, this Ultra Instinct makes me wonder.......

How would a fight go between two equal masters of this technique? I mean, both of their bodies would be able to react equally well to each other. Would it be a case of an infinite stalemate, in that case?

An interesting idea, at the very least.

If Whis considers himself no match for the Grand Priest then there have to be other factors at play that keep it from being a stalemate.

[HeroR]

Despite popular belief I'm staying with this new state Migatte no Goku’i as something more of a technique than an actual transformation with Goku’s eyes going silver and hair standing up as a side effect.

All I have to say is please don't let this be a one time thing. There are people wanting that to happen and I can't disagree more. This opens up new possibility for Vegeta, Gohan, and even Freeza to abstain this state or form as well.

No way, Migatte no Goku’i will definitely make a comeback, we have yet to see him shirtless with it, he’ll get better using that technique, I have a feeling Freeza may learn that technique as well.

Except UI alone can't explained why Goku's power and speed went up as noted by Piccolo and 17 or why Goku's aura felt very different. There is far more going on than Goku just getting UI.

[emperior]

That's what I said. Theoretically if you had this you might beat someone up and then not even realize you did it.

Hopefully thieves will leave Goku alone now, or else he might unadvertely blow them up.

Could lead to an interesting moral dilemma though. Imagine Goku on trial for murder because his body killed an innocent person without his knowledge.

Now I want to see a filler episode with Goku on a trial and Whis as his lawyer. In the end they would resurrect the poor thief with the Dragon Balls, and everything would be good.

[TheMikado]

First off, wow, I never thought the mighty and immortal Herms would grace this thread I made.

Second, I just thought of a potential addendum to add to how the Ultra Instinct works.

So, besides the technique of mastering your body's movements to such a degree that it reacts without input from your mind, Whis also taught Goku and Vegeta to keep their Ki within themselves without it leaking, as well as to only raise it when they attack to maximize striking power. What if the Ultra Instinct could do the same?

Maybe, along with being able to react independent of the user, the Ultra Instinct can also regulate their Ki for maximized focused power when the body strikes at an opponent, thus allowing a user to strike at almost anyone regardless of ordinary power level differences. It'd make it much easier to believe that the gods would fear such a technique if it effectively renders their massive power levels redundant in a fight.

This is exactly what I've been trying to emphasize since the beginning! I don't believe the technique is about raising a user's power but about precision, focused attacks with their body in full efficiency and power. It would allow counters and target specific weak spots, damaging an opponent regardless of power level differences. This would be how Goku and Vegeta could surpass the Gods and Jiren, without actually being more powerful than them.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

First off, wow, I never thought the mighty and immortal Herms would grace this thread I made.

Second, I just thought of a potential addendum to add to how the Ultra Instinct works.

So, besides the technique of mastering your body's movements to such a degree that it reacts without input from your mind, Whis also taught Goku and Vegeta to keep their Ki within themselves without it leaking, as well as to only raise it when they attack to maximize striking power. What if the Ultra Instinct could do the same?

Maybe, along with being able to react independent of the user, the Ultra Instinct can also regulate their Ki for maximized focused power when the body strikes at an opponent, thus allowing a user to strike at almost anyone regardless of ordinary power level differences. It'd make it much easier to believe that the gods would fear such a technique if it effectively renders their massive power levels redundant in a fight.

This is exactly what I've been trying to emphasize since the beginning! I don't believe the technique is about raising a user's power but about precision, focused attacks with their body in full efficiency and power. It would allow counters and target specific weak spots, damaging an opponent regardless of power level differences. This would be how Goku and Vegeta could surpass the Gods and Jiren, without actually being more powerful than them.

It'd certainly be an easy way to explain why the Angels seem to be much stronger fighters than their Gods of Destruction and yet aren't played up for their destructive potential of Universes.

[SansrivaaL]

Except UI alone can't explained why Goku's power and speed went up as noted by Piccolo and 17 or why Goku's aura felt very different. There is far more going on than Goku just getting UI.

Could come as a package in the technique, they did say instead of gaining a huge power up in one go that he's evolving through the fight with each blow etc.
They're not being literal with his aura being God ki or not, its his AURA when he fights, he gives off a different vibe mentally not ki wise, in simple terms Goku isnt giving any vibes of attacking, evading, bloodlust and such, he was calm, scary calm like he isnt gonna do anything but does things.