Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 34 - DB episode 151-153 & DBZ 1-2

[ArmenianPepsi]

In the Japanese version Kuririn implies Raditz is drunk “it’s not good to drink this early in the afternoon” the edited dub kind of sort of keeps this idea in a very G rated way. He says he thinks Raditz had been dipping into the egg nog. The super hard core edgy uncut dub
of course uses the exact same dialog as the edited for kids network tv dub.

In the Japanese version Bulma brings manju buns

In the Funi dubs she brings truffles

The Kai Funi dub compromise by just generically referring to them as goodies. Because even in 2010 Funimation is iffy on acknowledging this Japanese anime takes place in Japan.

One of the few things the Kai dub did that irked me was when in the beginning they went far enough to use the original names for techniques. You get to hear "Makankosappo", "Taiyo-ken" and "Kienzan", but after the Saiyan arc they seemingly gave up on being consistent so they just go back to using the dub names exclusively. Though it's the thought that matters, so the fact they did it at all was nice

Also don't get me started on that mangled compromise name they give Tien in episode 1. "Tien Shinhan" sounds so wrong to me. Like, either go all out and use Tenshinhan or just stick to Tien, like they would for the rest of Kai

I feel the exact opposite. Zenkai Power is my favorite Japanese ED for Dragon Ball. Yeah Yeah! Care Break is just so so generic

The english version of Yeah Yeah! Care Break made an already cheesy song even cheesier but I got a soft spot for it. With lyrics like "Live your life like a Kamehameha" it's great.

Dragon Soul though is awesome. In the 9 year gap between me stopping watching Kai and getting back into DB I could perfectly remember the lyrics to it anytime.

[MasenkoHA]

One of the few things the Kai dub did that irked me was when in the beginning they went far enough to use the original names for techniques. You get to hear "Makankosappo", "Taiyo-ken" and "Kienzan", but after the Saiyan arc they seemingly gave up on being consistent so they just go back to using the dub names exclusively. Though it's the thought that matters, so the fact they did it at all was nice

Consistency would also be nice. If they’re going to use the Japanese names then stick with them for Kami’s sake.

Reminds me of the old Sailor Moon dub when Japanese terms started creeping their way through but then they would sometimes go back to their old localized names. Is it Sailor Soldier or Sailor Scout? Jupiter Thunder Clap Zap or Sparkling Wide Pressure?

Also don't get me started on that mangled compromise name they give Tien in episode 1. "Tien Shinhan" sounds so wrong to me. Like, either go all out and use Tenshinhan or just stick to Tien, like they would for the rest of Kai

I think Tien Shinhan was used since at least the original Dragon Ball’s 2002 dub? Possibly before that? Wasn’t he only ever just “Tien” in the syndicated dub? Idk. I don’t mind Tien Shinhan is his full name but people call him Tien for short. Better than Bulla

[KBABZ]

Also don't get me started on that mangled compromise name they give Tien in episode 1. "Tien Shinhan" sounds so wrong to me. Like, either go all out and use Tenshinhan or just stick to Tien, like they would for the rest of Kai

I think Tien Shinhan was used since at least the original Dragon Ball’s 2002 dub? Possibly before that? Wasn’t he only ever just “Tien” in the syndicated dub? Idk. I don’t mind Tien Shinhan is his full name but people call him Tien for short. Better than Bulla

Correct Tien Shinhan is used as a way of taking Tenshinhan and splitting it into a full name. It's used fairly consistently and is a clever, if slightly inaccurate, solution for doing mouthflaps for a mouthful of a name. And I can kinda understand the logic of "Ten sounds weird as a singular name".

I also realized I never gave my feedback for the Wedding Dress Arc. IMO it's entirely skippable; nothing very interesting happens, Ox-King running around with the dress gets comical and not in a good way, and the Fire Bird episode legit feels like Pokemon, especially with the dumb failure trio showing up in a giant machine to steal the Creature of the Week and are defeated handily. Chi-Chi is now immediately in doting wife mode like she's post-Buu Videl, and even in the last episode we have some time-wasting monsters (although I did like the gradual reveal of it being an illusion). Also is it just me, or is Goku REALLY confrontational at the Eightfold Furnace? He doesn't listen to ANYTHING anyone is telling him and is willing to sacrifice the entire world for a stupid dress, it's so dumb.

That said Annin as a base character was cool and unique, and I really liked Goku and Chi-Chi communing with Turtle because it's a rare scene where he gets to hold the scene entirely on his own.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Also don't get me started on that mangled compromise name they give Tien in episode 1. "Tien Shinhan" sounds so wrong to me. Like, either go all out and use Tenshinhan or just stick to Tien, like they would for the rest of Kai

I think Tien Shinhan was used since at least the original Dragon Ball’s 2002 dub? Possibly before that? Wasn’t he only ever just “Tien” in the syndicated dub? Idk. I don’t mind Tien Shinhan is his full name but people call him Tien for short. Better than Bulla

Correct Tien Shinhan is used as a way of taking Tenshinhan and splitting it into a full name. It's used fairly consistently and is a clever, if slightly inaccurate, solution for doing mouthflaps for a mouthful of a name. And I can kinda understand the logic of "Ten sounds weird as a singular name".

I also realized I never gave my feedback for the Wedding Dress Arc. IMO it's entirely skippable; nothing very interesting happens, Ox-King running around with the dress gets comical and not in a good way, and the Fire Bird episode legit feels like Pokemon, especially with the dumb failure trio showing up in a giant machine to steal the Creature of the Week and are defeated handily. Chi-Chi is now immediately in doting wife mode like she's post-Buu Videl, and even in the last episode we have some time-wasting monsters (although I did like the gradual reveal of it being an illusion). Also is it just me, or is Goku REALLY confrontational at the Eightfold Furnace? He doesn't listen to ANYTHING anyone is telling him and is willing to sacrifice the entire world for a stupid dress, it's so dumb.

That said Annin as a base character was cool and unique, and I really liked Goku and Chi-Chi communing with Turtle because it's a rare scene where he gets to hold the scene entirely on his own.

Yeah, like for instance the one scene where Grandpa Gohan is emphatically pleading with and telling Goku while holding him back of the potential dangers that could occur as a result of releasing the pressure of the furnace's fire. Yet he's all like "I don't care, get the hell outta my way!!!!" even to Gohan and comes close it seems to hitting him in that outburst but instead just throws him off. I too found that a little bizarre because he's so singularly focused and hell bent on doing it that it's like nothing else matters to him in that moment even the lives of everyone else around him. I mean seriously, i get Mt. Frypan was in danger with the giant blazing fire and Ox King/Gyumao as well but i think Goku was being a being a bit too irrational and as you say confrontational there.

[ArmenianPepsi]

Correct Tien Shinhan is used as a way of taking Tenshinhan and splitting it into a full name. It's used fairly consistently and is a clever, if slightly inaccurate, solution for doing mouthflaps for a mouthful of a name. And I can kinda understand the logic of "Ten sounds weird as singular name".

Oh I never knew that. I never watched the dub of DB to the 22nd Budoukai, I just assumed they always cut the "-shinhan" and just went with "Tien", and for Kai it was just a half-hearted attempt to please fans of the original JP. When in that context, then it does make as a decent alternative take on his name.

[MyVisionity]

I think Tien Shinhan was used since at least the original Dragon Ball’s 2002 dub? Possibly before that? Wasn’t he only ever just “Tien” in the syndicated dub? Idk. I don’t mind Tien Shinhan is his full name but people call him Tien for short. Better than Bulla

It was the Saban dub that introduced "Tien Shinhan" during a scene in the Saiyan arc where Bulma reminisces looking at an old photo I think. I don't think Funi ever did anything else with it until the DB dub in 2001.

[Robo4900]

So, I just edited the first post to remove Farmer In Field from the recurring death tallies.

I was going to use him as a funny stand-in for all the mass revivals of humanity, except... Farmer in field was never revived.

I don't know if anyone's noticed this before, but Goku was the only one of Raditz's (two) victims to be revived, and then all the mass revivals after that were just for those killed by the latest villain. Farmer in field was never revived, making him the one non-villain death in Dragon Ball that actually sticks... Poor guy.

--

As for Saban vs Kai... I kinda agree that Saban found a nice median between editing it down and not removing a lot of the great filler... Though personally, I would have cut the dinosaur one and kept Gohan and the robot. But, I guess we can talk about that more in depth when we get there.

[MasenkoHA]

I preferred the Mr.Robot episode as well but I think there was a few good reasons Funimation elected to go with the dinosaur episode instead but we’ll cross that bridge of discussion in three weeks.

Farmer in field was never revived, making him the one non-villain death in Dragon Ball that actually sticks... Poor guy.

The Antique Shop Owner shot by Colonel Silver in episode 30 was never revived.


All the civilians killed by Nappa were never revived either.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I love the Goku and Gohan moments in the first episode of the Saiyan arc. I know the fandom love to joke about how Goku is a terrible father but the way he looked out for Gohan by ensuring he got his hat back, saved him from falling and holding him close shows that he can be a loving, protective father when he wants to.

[Robo4900]

I love the Goku and Gohan moments in the first episode of the Saiyan arc. I know the fandom love to joke about how Goku is a terrible father but the way he looked out for Gohan by ensuring he got his hat back, saved him from falling and holding him close shows that he can be a loving, protective father when he wants to.

Yeah.

Similarly, the jokes of "Piccolo is Gohan's real dad" are fun, but often get way, way out of hand... He was really mean to him early on, and tbh I always saw Piccolo as more like an uncle/older brother/older cousin figure.

[Dbzfan94]

I preferred the Mr.Robot episode as well but I think there was a few good reasons Funimation elected to go with the dinosaur episode instead but we’ll cross that bridge of discussion in three weeks.

Farmer in field was never revived, making him the one non-villain death in Dragon Ball that actually sticks... Poor guy.

The Antique Shop Owner shot by Colonel Silver in episode 30 was never revived.


All the civilians killed by Nappa were never revived either.

As well as everyone on Amenbo Island (the one Gero destroyed) and Papaya Island when Piccolo blew it up at the Tournament.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

So I finished the five episodes from the original run, so I will review the remaining episodes here and then review Kai Episode 1 as I should be able to get one more in before Week 35

Episode 154 - Mini Goku is Just Precious! I'm Gohan (Z Episode 1)

As an introduction to a sequel series this episode does a rather good job, mostly due to the juxtaposition between the peaceful times since the final arc of its predecessor and the looming threat that will pose a new challenge. In addition there is a huge focus on the son of the character who has been the hero since the beginning, and offers some nice paralells between both of their journeys.

The Kikuchi tracks played throughout this episode carry the different tones reflecting the threat to Earth's peace. The first few scenes showing the creatures of the Earth living in harmony is accompanied by an appropriately soothing track. Conversely the tracks played as Raditz ship comes down towards the ground is more ominous. Gohan's introduction also features a somber track to emphasize his loneliness as he looks for his parents Goku and Chi-Chi.

The sense of terror builds very slowly from the scene of Raditz threatening and killing an innocent farmer, hovering over a peaceful city and meeting Piccolo Jr, the current most feared demon living on Earth and even causing him to quiver with fear. Gohan's scenes in the woods show his innocence and how his world is before it's all turned upside down. These scenes, which show Gohan chasing after a butterfly, laughing after getting licked by a Tiger and finding a bird he wants to talk to were very endearing to watch.

The chase scene as the Tiger robs Gohan's chat and he tries to get it back had a more whimsical feel, which harkens back to the early episodes of the series. Goku's decisions to confront the Tiger himself and get the hat back for Gohan and following his son as he nearly falls to his death, and give him back his hat when he thought it was gone were all great character moments and specifically a demonstration that while Goku may not be a perfect father he does have some really good qualities and cares a lot for his son.

The brief confrontation between Raditz and Piccolo Jr highlight the resilience of the former, and after how much the previous arc built up the latter as a villain it becomes very clear how tough this new enemy will be. Raditz' frustration over how Goku was sent to Earth and didn't carry out his task creates suspence for the next episode and sets up a huge conflict for our hero that will change the course of his journey forever.

Episode 155 - The Strongest Warrior in All of History is Goku's Brother! (Z Episode 2)

In a similar fashion to the previous episode there is a juxtaposition between the assumed peacefulness within the minds of innocent Earthlings and the emerging threat that continues to build momentum.

The choice of opening with a darker scene with Raditz flying through thunderous clouds filled with rage however demonstrates the worsening of the situation since the previous episode. The scenes at Kame House with Bulma's surprise apprival and Goku and Gohan flying on the Kinto Un taking in the sights of birds and fish in their natural habitat shows the peaceful lives these characters have been enjoying. In the case of the scene with Goku and Gohan the use of a joyful Kikuchi track adds to the comforting lives these characters assume to live.

There were also nice character moments for Gohan as he is initially scared by Turtle and then ends up petting him. Goku and Kuririn was a sweet moment that is great to see after all their adventures together in the previous arcs to see them still competing with one another for old times sake.

The cutbacks from Raditz to Goku and vice versa is an interesting narrative choice that allows both characters to be followed simultaneously and serve as a constant reminder of their different perspectives on life on Earth, the former thinking it should be destroyed, and the latter having no desire and only wanting to improve himself. The moment Goku touches down at Kame House and Raditz notices the power level he's sensing stops illustrates the latter's oblivious attitude to what the former's intentions may be.

Raditz arrival to Kame House and the anger he shows towards Goku for not fulfilling his mission to wipe out life on Earth created some great drama that we haven't seen yet. Moreover, the fact Roshi only at this point reveals the tragic accident Goku had as a kid and how reckless he was before it implies a potential fear of not wanting to tarnish Goku's fond memories of his adoptive grandpa Gohan and how much he loved him.

It is during Raditz' reveal he is Goku's brother and that him and Goku derive from a race of space pirates known as the saiyans that this episode reaches its dramatic climax. Not only does Goku and his friends realize that he has been living a lie his whole life, and he is now being threatened for not doing what he thought was the wrong thing all along but he is being punished by having his son taken away and given one last chance to perform the horrendous acts he has always refused to make. The treacherous feeling Kikuchi track that plays as Raditz slowly approaches and attacks Goku with his knee emphasizes the shock and vile nature of his ways, and as Goku struggles to reach out for Gohan it becomes clear our hero has been deprived of everything.

In many ways this is the most serious and foreboding episode thus far and only adds to the momentum for this new arc and offers so much promise for stories to be told going forward.

[Planetnamek]

I preferred the Mr.Robot episode as well but I think there was a few good reasons Funimation elected to go with the dinosaur episode instead but we’ll cross that bridge of discussion in three weeks.

Farmer in field was never revived, making him the one non-villain death in Dragon Ball that actually sticks... Poor guy.

The Antique Shop Owner shot by Colonel Silver in episode 30 was never revived.


All the civilians killed by Nappa were never revived either.

I'm interested in the reason for that myself, i'm more surprised they didn't skip over the episode where Goku ends up in Hell, especially since that one does not really advance the plot.

One thing I do support Funimation doing is combining Z episodes 1 and 2 into one as that get's things rolling much quicker. Don't get me wrong I can see why people like the stuff with Gohan in the forest, I just personally think it dragged on a bit much and I think devoting almost the entire first episode to his antics was not the best first impression for the show.

[Robo4900]

Fun thing I noticed watching Z episode 2...

In the this scene, Bulma notices that Gohan is rather polite for a child of Goku.
In the Kai dub, Goku says he gets that from Chichi... Which doesn't make much sense, seeing as Chichi is as much of a country bumpkin as Goku is.
In the subs, Goku says "Chichi is fussy about that.", which makes far more sense.

Funny how little changes like that, when not fully thought out, can really impact a line. I think Funi's general disregard for OG DB is largely to blame here; I imagine the scriptwriters were thinking of Chichi as characterised in the original dubs of Z, rather than paying attention to the Japanese/manga version, or even thinking about how Chichi behaved in OG DB...
I'm probably overanalysing it, but this line is a pretty good illustration of the things wrong with Funi's modern dubs; yes, they do pay attention to the subtitle lines, but their changes, despite theoretically being just simple adaptation for natural dialogue and better-fitting to the mouth flaps, can be rather poorly thought-out, and lead to various problems.

FWIW, the Saban version of this line (which was carried over to the 2005 dub) was Chichi asking Gohan if he's gonna grow up to be big and strong like his dad, to which Goku says "Chichi doesn't let him train."

Other than that... Man, all the faffing about in the forest with Gohan in episode 1 is tiring, given that I've seen the Saban version of this so many times. Episode 2 is okay, though still a little slow, but episode 1 is near insufferable.

Steve Simmons' subs are, of course, accurate, and generally well-written, but some of the lines are exactly as clunky as their reputation would suggest. This one in episode 2 particularly stuck out to me: "You were supposed to have been under orders to dispose of humanity!"
Another one I'll briefly mention is Goku saying "I'd die before lending my hand to you!"... Simmons made sure to include certain speech quirks to reflect Goku's country bumpkin way of talking, but Simmons' subs are so literally-minded, that you end up with situations like this, where Goku would never use vocabulary like this.
No offense to Mr Simmons, and I love watching Dragon Ball subtitled, but I thought I would recognise the flaws of some work that was done well over 15 years ago as, indeed, being as flawed as many would say it is. Still leaps and bounds ahead of the various dubs by virtue of Simmons actually caring about what was intended by the writers at Toei, but nothing is ever perfect, and I think being ready to cricicise things we like is an important thing we, as a society, need to do... But anyway, enough philosophy... Simmons' subtitles are good, but the flaws of this work he did 15 years ago are quite clear.

Raditz saying that there are four surviving Saiyans counting Goku is hilarious now that we know about Paragas, Broly, and Tarble in modern canon. And, of course, there's Tullece from the movies, and there's all the Saiyans in Universe 6.

Also, I just noticed that Lunch is in Zenkai Power!

Spoiler:

Anyway, with that, I'm all caught up.

One thing I do support Funimation doing is combining Z episodes 1 and 2 into one as that get's things rolling much quicker. Don't get me wrong I can see why people like the stuff with Gohan in the forest, I just personally think it dragged on a bit much and I think devoting almost the entire first episode to his antics was not the best first impression for the show.

Well, remember, it's not a first impression! In Japan, basically everyone was familiar with Dragon Ball. Z episode 1 wasn't a first impression for anyone, really. Probably a bunch of people who weren't regularly watching Dragon Ball tuned in, but they'll have seen a bunch of the show before, most likely, given its immense popularity.

So, you really can't judge Z episode 1 as "Episode 1", it's Dragon Ball episode 154. From that point of view, bogging it down with that filler is still pretty bad, but it could be swept under the rug of introducing us to the new world state and characters in this old show, rather than being a slow beginning to a new show.

[MasenkoHA]

I think PlanetNamek meant from the perspective of Funimation “essentially” skipped Dragon Ball to go straight to Z l, so focusing so much on Gohan lost in the woods wouldn’t make a great first impression.

But man I’ll never understand the “you don’t need Dragon Ball, you can start at Z” people imagine never seeing Dragon Ball and just starting with Z


Oh so Goku is some super strong dude who flies on a cloud and he has a son and he used to have a tail like his son but it was removed when he was a child and he started martial arts under this old man named Master Roshi. This Krillin guy was his classmate I guess? They have the same gi. And this Bulma girl is their tech friend or something because she has a dragon radar and she used to go on adventures with them looking for dragon balls. And her boyfriend is some dude named Yamcha?

And the green alien guy is named Piccolo and I guess he’s evil? He doesn’t seem so bad though. Oh and apparently Krillin and Roshi have died before because Goku said they were restored to life before?


And yeah, that’s what happened in counties that got the Funi dub but something tells me nobody cared about the plot all that much.

[KBABZ]

Oh so Goku is some super strong dude who flies on a cloud and he has a son and he used to have a tail like his son but it was removed when he was a child and he started martial arts under this old man named Master Roshi. This Krillin guy was his classmate I guess? They have the same gi. And this Bulma girl is their tech friend or something because she has a dragon radar and she used to go on adventures with them looking for dragon balls. And her boyfriend is some dude named Yamcha?

And the green alien guy is named Piccolo and I guess he’s evil? He doesn’t seem so bad though. Oh and apparently Krillin and Roshi have died before because Goku said they were restored to life before?

I think having American-sounding anime-haired people firing laser beams that destroy mountains meant a lot of that didn't matter. A bit of Just Here For Godzilla going on for the early episodes.

[ArmenianPepsi]

I think PlanetNamek meant from the perspective of Funimation “essentially” skipped Dragon Ball to go straight to Z l, so focusing so much on Gohan lost in the woods wouldn’t make a great first impression.

But man I’ll never understand the “you don’t need Dragon Ball, you can start at Z” people imagine never seeing Dragon Ball and just starting with Z


Oh so Goku is some super strong dude who flies on a cloud and he has a son and he used to have a tail like his son but it was removed when he was a child and he started martial arts under this old man named Master Roshi. This Krillin guy was his classmate I guess? They have the same gi. And this Bulma girl is their tech friend or something because she has a dragon radar and she used to go on adventures with them looking for dragon balls. And her boyfriend is some dude named Yamcha?

And the green alien guy is named Piccolo and I guess he’s evil? He doesn’t seem so bad though. Oh and apparently Krillin and Roshi have died before because Goku said they were restored to life before?


And yeah, that’s what happened in counties that got the Funi dub but something tells me nobody cared about the plot all that much.

In that regard that's something I can give Kai a little credit for doing in episode 1. Fine they tell Goku's backstory and the events of OG DB in a real abridged, bullet point fasion, but for say a kid watching it, they wont be going into the Z part of the story totally blind to who the characters are.

Though for what it does right, it seriously slips up by including the Bardock material.

• It immediately spoils the fact that Goku is an alien

• It spoils the fact that Planet Vegeta was destroyed by Frieza, and in turn ruins the reveal of him

• It makes a lot of the exposition Raditz spits out either redundant or contradictory to what you just saw

That time that was dedicated to the Bardock stuff could've been use to flesh out the abridged summary of what happened in OG DB instead.

[KBABZ]

That time that was dedicated to the Bardock stuff could've been use to flesh out the abridged summary of what happened in OG DB instead.

Agreed. I know it's a bit off-topic, but for a while now me and Robo have been figuring out the best way to cover this portion in a good fashion for when I eventually do Kikuchi Kai hopefully maybe someday. We came up with a few ideas:

• Totally ignore it and go the Z route by just continuing the story as normal.
• Cut out the Bardock opening and instead expand the Dragon Ball recap to include the 21st, 22nd and Red Ribbon arcs more fully with select voice clips from those episodes. The Bardock opening would be moved to the Z Kai episode where Frieza realizes that Goku looks like Bardock.
• Use the start of the first Wedding Arc episode with Armstrong's narration, then transition to Herbert finishing his dialogue using the end of the Kai recap where Raditz's pod flies in.
• The forest filler with Gohan would be cut no matter what so Episodes 1 and 2 would probably be combined in some fashion.

Including the Bardock opening is cute for those in the know, but it totally breaks the important storytelling regarding the backstory of the Saiyans and their relationship with Frieza by spoiling two of the biggest twists in the story early!

[MasenkoHA]

Honestly using the Bardock special to start the first episode just made it looks like Freeza is the big bad of the series as a whole and Goku vs Freeza is the “endgame” of the series

[KBABZ]

Honestly using the Bardock special to start the first episode just made it looks like Freeza is the big bad of the series as a whole and Goku vs Freeza is the “endgame” of the series

Remember that Kai was originally devised to just cover the Saiyan and Namek arcs; Androids/Cell came later, and the Buu arc wasn't done because of the earthquake/tsunami.