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B-kun
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Post by B-kun » Fri May 07, 2004 10:17 pm

PsyLiam wrote:
B-kun wrote:Whoever first said "Go out and get a girlfriend" should be shot and HANGED.

Actually, is he still alive?
I am. Unless you mean generally. And I honestly wasn't trying to do some sort of "OMG you are single and sad and gay!!!" thing.

But still, 6 years? Researching whether #16 and #17 have computers for brains or not? There's having a hobby, and there's been start raving mad.

Yeah, that is.. sad. I've been spending the past 4 years trying to learn Japanese unprofessionally,, but atleast that can come in handy and I have other interests... But yeah. I forgot my point.

By the way, Liam, didja see that PM I sent the other day?

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Post by PsyLiam » Fri May 07, 2004 10:22 pm

Finals. Busy. Talk next week.

And there's a world of difference between learning a language, and studying a minute piece of detail in a cartoon show. I mean, I've been a fan for a while, but I wouldn't devote several years of my life to trying to figure out exactly what material Vegeta's Android-era armour is made of.

That said, I am enjoying this. Post more, number18 who is clever and knowledgable!
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Post by Zackarotto » Fri May 07, 2004 11:07 pm

Wouldn't it be "hung"?
B-kun wrote:I have lost all faith in humanity. *sets up a circle of detonating plushies*
Noo! Don't do it! And, a scan of the magazine he was interviewed in when he said that is in another topic... I guess you missed it. I'd find it, but I'm not good at that.

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Post by number18 » Fri May 07, 2004 11:47 pm

Meh. That was the last of it in that post. If you really want more tho, here's what happened before that last post of mine.

And you are a buffoon.

Because the one piece you shown me says: "Technically #17 and #18 are cyborgs."

The definition of "technically" is linked to the word "technicallity". And in this term's case, you are both right and wrong. Right, because they used to be human, and have their exterior organs (and a single interior organ). And wrong, because everything the currently use is based on robotics.

And as I was trying to tell you, the correct term is "Artifical Human", as this is what Akira Toriyama called them... Based on what he has written.

And if you have actually read your facts, you would have known that Dr.Gero is the only Android that his own brain. Androids 17 and 18 had bits and pieces of their memories put into a computer program... And later had these things programmed into their internal mainframe computer.

Thus, on another technicallity, they are more Android than Cyborg. And that is why Viz sai "technically".


____________________



The definition of "technically" is linked to the word "technicallity".
 
Actually, "technically" is the adverb form of technical. Technicality is a whole different thing.
 
The term that Akira Toriyama uses is "jinzouningen." He speaks Japanese. The English definition of that word is not concrete and there is no true equivalent to it in English. There is no word in English that can simultaneously refer to a robot AND a cyborg. "Artificial human" is just one way of translating it.
 
Also, http://www.cyborgmemoirs.com/shrine/truthoftwins.jpg
Since it's apparent you never looked at the picture the first time I sent you the link, the scan states that 17 and 18 are based on human bodies..."enhanced almost entirely with bio-organic components."  Bio-organic components. Bio-organic. Not mechanical. Not robotic. Bio-organic.
 
The rest of the nonsense your spouting off about is purely fictional. You have continually failed to explain where you get it from, and therefore I need not even address it.
 
I still win. You should really stop trying.
 
-number18



_________________________


Again, you just contradited yourself. It says "enhanced almost entirely with bio-organic components." Meaning the external components and the one internal compnent.

As I told you before, Dr.Gero left in only one original internal organ. With himself, it was his brain. And with 17 and 18, the do not have their original brain, but a computer. So that way, they can do stuff that an organic brain, could not do... As well as allow Dr.gero use anything they know, that he thinks is useful.

_________________________


I really don't understand how people can think that humans magically turn into androids if they get enough cybernetics. Having cybernetics doesn't even mean you've got machine parts. It can include chemical enhancements too, dammit.

Anyway, at least this kid gave me like 5 more questions for my rumors & myths section. :/

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Post by Deus ex Machina » Sat May 08, 2004 1:07 am

number18 wrote:And if you have actually read your facts, you would have known that Dr.Gero is the only Android that his own brain. Androids 17 and 18 had bits and pieces of their memories put into a computer program... And later had these things programmed into their internal mainframe computer.
Um...and where did he get that? I have the entire android/imperfect cell/perfect Cell sagas on DVD, and nowhere does it say anything even remotely that 17 & 18's brains were completly mechanical..

and EVEN if they WERE, they would STILL be cyborgs! A man with a hearing aide is a cyborg, a person who's body has been completly augmented is STILL a cyborg.

How can this guy cling to ignorance so hard that he can't understand these simple facts?

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Post by Jerseymilk » Sat May 08, 2004 3:29 am

As further proof that you're correct #18, tell him to check out the "Ghost in the Shell" manga or anime. Kusnagi's body has had some many enhancements that I believe only parts of her brain are organic anymore. I know that her whole body is mechanical and she is still considered a "cyborg". As far as I've always known, to be a cyborg means you were once "human" or "organic" if you will. An android is as #16 says "constructed from nothing". Geez, you think during those 6 years the kid would have at least taken time to watch Data on ST:TNG! He'd explain it the same way. :?
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Post by Xyex » Sat May 08, 2004 4:46 am

*Clears Throat*

Cyborg: Any living that has been augmented/modified by mechinacial/artificial/cybernetic parts. i.e. A person with a false leg, a wild animal implanted with a computerized tracking chip, a Human Brain's thoughts digitially copied into, and running from, a purely mechanical database.

So... even if 17 & 18's bodies where purely mechanical, since they're minds came from organic brains at first, they'd still be Cyborgs.

And webster's has it defined as:
n : a human being whose body has been taken over in whole or in part by electromechanical devices; "a cyborg is a cybernetic organism"
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Post by TripleRach » Sat May 08, 2004 5:07 am

SaiyaJedi wrote:Here's what I wrote back:
JGJedi@aol.com wrote:Hi! Glad to be of service here.

1) In general, all of Dr. Gero's creations are referred to as "Jinzouningen" (literally translated, "artificial humans"). However, you have to understand that the term as it's used in Japanese (chiefly science fiction) is very broad, ranging from completely mechanical creations (such as #16) all the way up to humans with cybernetic enhancements (such as #17 and #18 ). While Toriyama never actually used the English loanword "saiboogu" (cyborg) to describe either 17 or 18, they do say themselves that they're "enhanced" humans (for which the term "jinzouningen" is sufficiently broad).
Actually, Toriyama does call them saibougu once, during Trunks's big explanation to Gokuu in Chapter 335. :)

Gokuu: Nani mono da. Uchuujin na no ka?
Trunks: Ie... Kono Chikyuu de umidasareta jinzouningen... Iwayuru saibougu to iu yatsu desu.

That right there should be the clincher. Maybe my photographic memory has some usefulness after all...!

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Post by tablet the eunuch » Sat May 08, 2004 7:19 am

You both fail at life.

The fact is, they could be either, but does it REALLY MATTER!?

Something tells me I should be angry at number18, but I'm not cause you were simply clearing up facts.

This other joker who's been "researching" for six years- WHO CARES! GROW UP! No one is going to appreciate your BS outside of the interhyperspaceweb, so cram it!

PS Toei never did DVDs or Translations of DBZ into English, therefore debunking his argument completely.

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Post by B-kun » Sat May 08, 2004 12:35 pm

tablet the eunuch wrote:You both fail at life.

The fact is, they could be either, but does it REALLY MATTER!?

Something tells me I should be angry at number18, but I'm not cause you were simply clearing up facts.

This other joker who's been "researching" for six years- WHO CARES! GROW UP! No one is going to appreciate your BS outside of the interhyperspaceweb, so cram it!

PS Toei never did DVDs or Translations of DBZ into English, therefore debunking his argument completely.

God I'm good :D

FUKUNAGA OUT

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Post by number18 » Sat May 08, 2004 1:28 pm

This was in my inbox this morning...
idiot kid wrote: ...but you ignored, and just flamed me. Which is why I left, because it removed it after I reported you.

Cybernetics, in most anime terms, is a piece of robotics that is connected to one kind of organics, or another. And since 18's eyes (for example) may have still contained it's original organic materials, anything connected to it are considered cybernetics.

As for the body, as in skeletial system, it is purely robotic. This is because it is surrounded by wires, and then organic material. So it has no true connection to any organics. Thus, does not become a piece of cybernetics.

So thus, the only true term for 17 and 18 are what Akira Toriyama used, and Julian of Daizenshuu EX said. He never used the term Android or Cyborg. He used the term Artificial Human. So that is the true term for this character. And it is used by Toei, who worked with Toriyama from the start.

So yeah, bub, if you listened and stop rabbling and flaming, you would have been an intelligent person. You would also know that there is such a thing as a android/cyborg hybrid. And that Viz noted it in your own example.

And as for the old site? It was Planet Namek. It was a legendary website that voided of any contradictions, and despite the fact official standings on the Super Saiyan forms came prior to their last year(s), their unofficial numbers were known to be quite accurate. They also did complete manga summaries, who debuted/appeared/died in what volume, and listed most of the attacks. They also did huge summaries on each character, along with their abilities/attacks. And if they were in charge of DBZ for FUNimation, it would be a better series.

So in other words, if you were not being a pompous idiot, you would realize that I agreed with you on the terminology, know what cybernetics are, that in many ways you were wrong, and that neither Cyborg or Android are the correct names... But are both correct terms for 17, 18, 20, and 21.

And oh yeah, like I said... I wrote a RPG based on somebody's old work. I used some of her stuff and somebody else's, with credit to both. And I wrote a summary on this subject. I also wrote two Dragon Ball Z articles for Beckett. One on Gohan, and one on Majin Buu. The Gohan one got me rave reviews on my accuracy, when it comes to the character. And one said his friend in Japan read it, and said it is far more accurate than their other stuff.

So yeah, if I was retarded, I would be agreeing with you... Or flaming you. But if you noticed, all you did was interupt me and sound stupid. All because you cannot accept a fact that was written in stone, and that I know this subject as well. And finally, Toei's anime is the second form of canon, because regadless if Toriyama worked on it or not, everything has to be approved by him. Again, I know, because I did research on him. So with the R.Talsorian books, anything that does not contradict what the anime or manga says is canon.

That is all I am going to say to you, and hope you deflate your over-sized head.^_^

So in closing, he is a guru of DBZ knowledge cause Beckett, an rpg, and old info on Planet Namek said so. Or some shit like that.

I can't comprehend how a single person can be so unbelieveably ignorant.
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Post by VegettoEX » Sat May 08, 2004 4:35 pm

A friend of a friend in Japan read his stuff. You've been owned.
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Post by Deus ex Machina » Sat May 08, 2004 6:03 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:As further proof that you're correct #18, tell him to check out the "Ghost in the Shell" manga or anime. Kusnagi's body has had some many enhancements that I believe only parts of her brain are organic anymore. I know that her whole body is mechanical and she is still considered a "cyborg". As far as I've always known, to be a cyborg means you were once "human" or "organic" if you will. An android is as #16 says "constructed from nothing". Geez, you think during those 6 years the kid would have at least taken time to watch Data on ST:TNG! He'd explain it the same way. :?
If I remember corectly; her body was completly mechanical, including her brain. However she had real organic brain cells.
And oh yeah, like I said... I wrote a RPG based on somebody's old work. I used some of her stuff and somebody else's, with credit to both. And I wrote a summary on this subject. I also wrote two Dragon Ball Z articles for Beckett. One on Gohan, and one on Majin Buu. The Gohan one got me rave reviews on my accuracy, when it comes to the character. And one said his friend in Japan read it, and said it is far more accurate than their other stuff.
Ok, let's see...he knows he's right because he started an RPG, based on someone elses work, in the days before proper translations were available? Yeah, that's irrefutable evidence alright. A peice of fan-fiction based on poor fan-translations.

Wrote two articles for Beckette Magazine? Well, how can I argue with poorly researched magazine articles, with no more authenticity than a fan product itself, because it's published for money. I've seen their magazine before, it's 90% advertisements, and they frequently make mistakes. (SSJ2 Teen Gohan was listed as a GT character?)

When people refuse to listen to reason, all the facts and proof in the world won't change their minds. Someone should pound it into his thick skull that a cyborg can't become an android, it's a complete contradiction of terms.

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Post by number18 » Sat May 08, 2004 7:31 pm

Totally. I mean, this guy's got TWO articles in Beckett. Not one, but two.

http://www.iguardians.net/boards/showthread.php?t=1896

Oh, and Deus, the twins have very few cybernetic parts.
http://www.cyborgmemoirs.com/shrine/truthoftwins.jpg
Crappy pic, but whatev. It get's the job done.
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Post by Dayspring » Sat May 08, 2004 8:05 pm

Interesting. Mucho idiocy here so I skipped over a few posts in entirety. Was the fact that she gave birth to 100% human girl ever mentioned?

EDIT: And what's happening with your RPG?
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Post by tablet the eunuch » Sat May 08, 2004 8:39 pm

Why can't they be Robots also built with human parts? kinda like a sexy Frankenstien's monster mixed with... a robot?

I'll look over everything tonight I geuss.

Plus, my last thing kinda wasn't saracastic kinda maybe sorta. The fact is the guy sucks.

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Post by Deus ex Machina » Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 pm

number18 wrote:Oh, and Deus, the twins have very few cybernetic parts.
http://www.cyborgmemoirs.com/shrine/truthoftwins.jpg
Crappy pic, but whatev. It get's the job done.
I don't recall saying otherwise. :?

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Post by PsyLiam » Sat May 08, 2004 10:36 pm

...and despite the fact official standings on the Super Saiyan forms came prior to their last year(s), their unofficial numbers were known to be quite accurate
What on earth is he blabbering on about?
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Post by VegettoEX » Sat May 08, 2004 10:55 pm

PsyLiam wrote:What on earth is he blabbering on about?
Doesn't you speak fanboy?!?!?
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Post by PsyLiam » Sat May 08, 2004 11:46 pm

No but I went to Japan for 6 years and found out from Alan Toriyama who is friends with Mr Akira-sama Toriyama-sama that Super Saiyan Gin Two is actually 1,543,232.2 power levels of power, and that is what Planet Namek wrote and they are right and FUNi raped The Dragon Ball Zee.
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