What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

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Alruneia
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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by Alruneia » Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:51 am

Honestly, for me, most of them are okay, at least in moderation, it's mainly the cutaways that get annoying, like during Goku vs Frieza where there are sudden cuts to Chi-Chi attempting to go to Namek. Extending battles with extra action is often great (By that I don't mean inserting new plot beats like Gohan vs Frieza being inserted into the SS Goku vs 100 % Frieza fight, I mean expanding on the fights that already exist in the manga), staring contests can enhance tension if you use them in moderation, and even cutting to commentary can be fine if the commentary is meaningful and it doesn't happen too often, but cutting to an invented B-plot (or even C-plot) to aimlessly break up the action always bothers me.
When I think of "good DBZ filler", the first thing that comes to mind is the Other World Tournament, followed by the driving episode, followed by training scenes/episodes. So I guess I don't mind filler arcs when they don't really contradict anything, I don't mind light-hearted filler between action segments, and I don't mind seeing off-panel training in the manga become on-screen training in the anime.
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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:07 pm

Alruneia wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:51 am Honestly, for me, most of them are okay, at least in moderation, it's mainly the cutaways that get annoying, like during Goku vs Frieza where there are sudden cuts to Chi-Chi attempting to go to Namek. Extending battles with extra action is often great (By that I don't mean inserting new plot beats like Gohan vs Frieza being inserted into the SS Goku vs 100 % Frieza fight, I mean expanding on the fights that already exist in the manga), staring contests can enhance tension if you use them in moderation, and even cutting to commentary can be fine if the commentary is meaningful and it doesn't happen too often, but cutting to an invented B-plot (or even C-plot) to aimlessly break up the action always bothers me.
When I think of "good DBZ filler", the first thing that comes to mind is the Other World Tournament, followed by the driving episode, followed by training scenes/episodes. So I guess I don't mind filler arcs when they don't really contradict anything, I don't mind light-hearted filler between action segments, and I don't mind seeing off-panel training in the manga become on-screen training in the anime.
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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:44 pm

Alruneia wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:51 am Honestly, for me, most of them are okay, at least in moderation, it's mainly the cutaways that get annoying, like during Goku vs Frieza where there are sudden cuts to Chi-Chi attempting to go to Namek. Extending battles with extra action is often great (By that I don't mean inserting new plot beats like Gohan vs Frieza being inserted into the SS Goku vs 100 % Frieza fight, I mean expanding on the fights that already exist in the manga), staring contests can enhance tension if you use them in moderation, and even cutting to commentary can be fine if the commentary is meaningful and it doesn't happen too often, but cutting to an invented B-plot (or even C-plot) to aimlessly break up the action always bothers me.
When I think of "good DBZ filler", the first thing that comes to mind is the Other World Tournament, followed by the driving episode, followed by training scenes/episodes. So I guess I don't mind filler arcs when they don't really contradict anything, I don't mind light-hearted filler between action segments, and I don't mind seeing off-panel training in the manga become on-screen training in the anime.
I agree with this with the exception of your example of Gohan vs. Freeza. I like that fight. It works for me as there's emotion in it.
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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:17 pm

I agree with ABED and I STILL am hoping to an explanation as to WHY Gohan vs Freeza is WORST FILLER EVER?

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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Tue Jul 23, 2024 2:54 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:17 pm I agree with ABED and I STILL am hoping to an explanation as to WHY Gohan vs Freeza is WORST FILLER EVER?
"Because it breaks the power-scaling!"
Much like the scene of the Earthlings defeating the Ginyu Force, fans will usually argue Gohan is too weak to put up a fight against 100% Freeza, hence why that part sucks.

But then again, this is the same arc where Goku miraculously comes back 33x times stronger than ever by sitting in a healing pod and a fusion of 5k + 40k equals over a million, so why do people complain about the power-scaling on the filler, and only the filler, is beyond me.
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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Jul 30, 2024 9:41 pm

AliTheZombie13 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 2:54 am
Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:17 pm I agree with ABED and I STILL am hoping to an explanation as to WHY Gohan vs Freeza is WORST FILLER EVER?
"Because it breaks the power-scaling!"
Much like the scene of the Earthlings defeating the Ginyu Force, fans will usually argue Gohan is too weak to put up a fight against 100% Freeza, hence why that part sucks.

But then again, this is the same arc where Goku miraculously comes back 33x times stronger than ever by sitting in a healing pod and a fusion of 5k + 40k equals over a million, so why do people complain about the power-scaling on the filler, and only the filler, is beyond me.
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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by Rafa Fast » Wed Jul 31, 2024 2:16 am

I believe all of them, at least everything that was said here, I rewatched the animations so many times that I really got used to the long stares or the long charge/power up sequences. I really like the fillers, even the bad ones (the Fake Nameku concept was interesting to me), and over the years I really became very attached to them, specially the Slice of Life ones, I love to see Dragon Ball doing things that aren't fights or adventures, seeing these ultra powerful beings doing very "normal' things, or just going through other absurd situations is amusing to me. Though, I would've changed a few things, I think it can be a bit annoying to have the parts of the characters on Earth trying to go to Nameku interrupting the battles/"canon" part, these scenes don't really lead to anywhere so they can be frustrating to many, I personally would've these scenes as their own episodes.
But in general I really don't mind the fillers at all, specially because with them we actually get to see Toei's staff putting all of their creativity on the table, from this, we can see a lot of unexpected and interesting concepts showing up, such as:
  • The anime using a concept that would only be used canonically very later on, like Kami having a time machine back in DB, way before Trunks,,and Goku going back in time itself.
  • The anime partially "predicting" what a character or object would look like, such as the Super Saiyajin hair being golden.
  • Or just the fact that they make the anime use concepts and ideas that Toriyama never tried to use at all, such as everyone being brainwashed (Garlic Jr. Arc)
But, there is a "Time Stalling Technique" that I surely really have a problem with, which are the damn flashbacks, oh my, how annoying these can get XD a good bunch of minutes in a episode can be spent only with these, with you literally rewatching a full part of a previous episode, I say this because it's very often how these flashbacks just play a full scene, without any cuts, THE FULL SCENE. It's good to remember something, in some moments it really works very well, such as Roshi in the Cell arc remembering the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, but in others?

Good lord, I believe the longest of them is the flashback before Goku defeats Freeza, it's insane how much of the episode that flashback takes, I personally only forgive it because I actually think it really works for the perspective of Freeza's character, he hits this extremely low point of his life, losing all of his army, parts of his body and being overpowered by someone from a race he absolutely despises, and later receiving a little help from him, so remembering everything he went through with his fight against Goku, while he watches him flying off refusing to kill him makes a lot of sense to me, but I perfectly understand if that annoys anyone else.

I always like the flashbacks when they actually reanimate the scenes, it's great because we get to see a scene we already saw before but with a few changes and a different/updated art style (though Super messed up Mirai Gohan's death :silent: ), I really like that. But straight reusing the same scene from a previous episode is just lazy to me, glad that it rarely happens in Super, but in DB it was already a problem, in Z there are moments where it's even laughable, there are times they didn't even care about reusing the same scene for a flashback twice, in less than 10 episodes! (Bardock's death and Destruction of Planet Vegeta in Episodes 78 and 86 is one example i can remember)
For me this is the lowest that animation can get in order to save time and cut costs.
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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by super michael » Wed Jul 31, 2024 7:28 am

Filler that extends battle is a good thing, we get to see more action. An example is Goku vs Majin Vegeta, in the manga it was short, but in the anime they made it longer.

Slice of life episode isn't a bad thing, episode like Goku getting his license to drive or Goku solving Tao Pai Pai are more than welcome. It was good seeing Goku gather all the Dragon Balls in the Cells games.

The only bad thing about filler if it spoils power scale, an example being SSJ1 Goku being able to defeat Ultimate Gohan and SSJ1 Vegeta being able to defeat SSJ3 Gotenks and Piccolo.
We know SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta would die against Fat Boo, while SSJ3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan are beyond Fat Boo.

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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by Fizzer » Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:09 am

I like the majority of story filler - Pilaf VS the RRA, Goku travelling the world, Popo's training, Saiyan arc filler, Other World Tournament, Great Saiyaman stuff, even some stuff like the Wedding Dress arc and Haskee is fine. Almost all content along the lines makes the story and the world richer for me, just not the bits that end up contradicting later on.

I done like filler which, rather than adding more content to the story, takes the same amount of content and drags it out. That's quite a lot of fight filler, (repeated) cutaways to other characters, (repeated) staredowns and panning shots, flashbacks to episodes from the same arc, just things moving unnaturally slowly.

Edit: though speaking of fight filler, extending Goku Vs Majin Vegeta was a good move.

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Re: What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:35 pm

I absolutely loved the post that likened the stare contests with the western epics of Sergio Leone, it is REALLY rare that anime is that atmospheric with the pace. People constantly insist My Hero Academia has great pace but I just dont like it.

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