What sort of "Toei Time Stalling Techiniques" You DONT mind?

[Cure Dragon 255]

The DBZ anime is FILLED with filler. But there are some techniques they do to stall time, and some are better than others. In your own opinion which ones you didnt mind or even like to some extent?

Here are some examples

-Filller Episodes in General
-Filler Where Gohan is way more eager to fight, to the point of Goku Needing to punch him
-Filler where Chichi whines and moans about Gohan where are you Gohan.
-Stare Contests.
-Filler where Gohan learns to be brave
-Toei extending the scene where Freeza impales Krillin and tortures him (I love this one)
-Filler where Bulma whines about being sad and lonely in Namek.
-The Driving Episode

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Ah filler, every anime fan's worst nightmare.

Nah, some filler is quite good, others not so much but it's not inherently a bad thing.

I think original Dragon Ball does filler the best because it's so carefully woven into the story and you get to know the characters a lot better.

• Goku travelling the world training just flows so naturally into the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
• Exploration of characters like the Crane Hermit, Tien/Tenshinhan and Choitzu
• Foreshadowing of characters like King Yemma and Kami
  • On that note King Kai/Kaio-Sama telling Goku about the saiyans and tsufurians, which GT did an admirable job expanding upon for the Baby arc

Dragon Ball Z's filler is hit or miss.

The fake Namek stuff just needlessly pads that arc right from the get-go when it should be moving along smoothly.

I actually kinda like how long Goku and Freeza's fight is, it was probably the most climactic battle in the history of anime up to that point and is still legendary to this day.

Aside from that there's some great little side stories in Z, Garlic Junior isn't as bad as a lot of people say, the Other World tournament is awesome, a lot of the stuff with Gohan in High School and the Great Saiyaman is good stuff. Of course everyone loves the added gags like Goku and Piccolo trying to get their driving licenses.

Oh, and I love the Wedding Dress arc, although I'm a sucker for romance stories. Grandpa Gohan seeing Chi-Chi on the eve of her wedding was a touching moment, as was Goku getting to see him again after all these years.

[AliTheZombie13]

Most filler from the OG anime was fine by me. There are only some I really loathe:
- The entire climax of the Freeza Saga.
- When they spend half to an entire episode just screaming and charging an attack.
- When a single fight scene is extended beyond a single episode.
- Every single addition of "It's a trick!" to Mr. Satan in the Cell Saga.
- And of course, my all-time favorite: "I was just fooling around these past handful of episodes. Now I'll fight FOR REAL!!!!"

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

If we're talking worst stalling, let's not forget Super episode 30 was a recap episode, of the last few episodes up to that point

The Tournament of Power must also be the biggest dull, tedious slog in Dragon Ball history. Probably should have been 10 episodes tops.

[Vegetto95]

Is it weird that I really don't mind the long, long staredown sequences that happen quite often (ESPECIALLY in Z)? I know a LOT of people simply do NOT have the patience for them, which is TOTALLY fine and understandable, but me? I'm a huge Sergio Leone fan, so whenever they occur in Z, it comes across to me as "Oh, hi Once Upon a Time in the West! Hey there, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly! How ya doin'?"
https://youtu.be/m3l7bmwSV5U?si=5tBWkjiIwdWVcW5d&t=61

Plus, they are of course VERY reminiscent of similar long pre-fight staredowns in many chanbara and wuxia flicks, which are obviously much more applicable to Dragon Ball than westerns lol. I think DB just does those pretty well, where they create a strong sense of suspense and tension (a calm before the storm kind of feeling) that really helps to ramp up the epic martial arts combat that you know is about to occur. And the fact that those scenes are usually accompanied either by silence, or by some of the more wonderfully subtle, tense tracks by Kikuchi just works wonders.

(And of course, that's one of the MANY things FUNi often ruined, since they could NEVER let those scenes be and breathe, and almost always just HAD to have other characters yammering on and on with the not-so-wonderful Faulconer "music" droning on in the background aimlessly lmao)

[MasenkoHA]

I agree the original Dragon Ball handled filler a lot better than Z but I think its because the series started far away enough from when the manga did they had plenty of time to create interesting padding that enhanced the story. The Saiyan saga also had some great filler and that was the last time there was a notable gap between the manga and the anime. It's not a coincidence the pacing and padding went to shit as soon as the anime caught up to near where the manga was.

They probably weren't allowed to, but in hindsight, they should have gone on a hiatus after original Dragon Ball ended and started Dragon Ball Z up like after the Japanese summer break in September 89 instead of a literal week after Dragon Ball 86 ended. I get that Toei/Bandai/Shueisha higher ups would have vetoed anything like that but would have helped Z's infamously sluggish pacing I think

[Cure Dragon 255]

Is it weird that I really don't mind the long, long staredown sequences that happen quite often (ESPECIALLY in Z)? I know a LOT of people simply do NOT have the patience for them, which is TOTALLY fine and understandable, but me? I'm a huge Sergio Leone fan, so whenever they occur in Z, it comes across to me as "Oh, hi Once Upon a Time in the West! Hey there, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly! How ya doin'?"
https://youtu.be/m3l7bmwSV5U?si=5tBWkjiIwdWVcW5d&t=61

Plus, they are of course VERY reminiscent of similar long pre-fight staredowns in many chanbara and wuxia flicks, which are obviously much more applicable to Dragon Ball than westerns lol. I think DB just does those pretty well, where they create a strong sense of suspense and tension (a calm before the storm kind of feeling) that really helps to ramp up the epic martial arts combat that you know is about to occur. And the fact that those scenes are usually accompanied either by silence, or by some of the more wonderfully subtle, tense tracks by Kikuchi just works wonders.

(And of course, that's one of the MANY things FUNi often ruined, since they could NEVER let those scenes be and breathe, and almost always just HAD to have other characters yammering on and on with the not-so-wonderful Faulconer "music" droning on in the background aimlessly lmao)

To be honest, despite the opening post I dont mind filler either, but people do and I thought it would be interesting to discuss what people see as BAD filler and what is GOOD filler.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I agree the original Dragon Ball handled filler a lot better than Z but I think its because the series started far away enough from when the manga did they had plenty of time to create interesting padding that enhanced the story. The Saiyan saga also had some great filler and that was the last time there was a notable gap between the manga and the anime. It's not a coincidence the pacing and padding went to shit as soon as the anime caught up to near where the manga was.

They probably weren't allowed to, but in hindsight, they should have gone on a hiatus after original Dragon Ball ended and started Dragon Ball Z up like after the Japanese summer break in September 89 instead of a literal week after Dragon Ball 86 ended. I get that Toei/Bandai/Shueisha higher ups would have vetoed anything like that but would have helped Z's infamously sluggish pacing I think

Well if they did that we wouldnt have the amazing Gohan filler episodes from the Saiyan saga. I think Z should have gone on hiatus on the episode they decide to go to Namek instead.

[Vegetto95]

Did you mean to quote me there, Cure Dragon, or MasenkoHa? Cuz Masenko mentioned filler, not me lol (aside from the long staredown sequences specifically)

[Cure Dragon 255]

Apparently both, but one on each post. I REALLY love the staredowns. They are pretty atmospheric and add a lot of hype and flavor to the show. Sure they may not be in the manga, but they are harmless and can actually add to scenes rather than detract.

[MasenkoHA]

I agree the original Dragon Ball handled filler a lot better than Z but I think its because the series started far away enough from when the manga did they had plenty of time to create interesting padding that enhanced the story. The Saiyan saga also had some great filler and that was the last time there was a notable gap between the manga and the anime. It's not a coincidence the pacing and padding went to shit as soon as the anime caught up to near where the manga was.

They probably weren't allowed to, but in hindsight, they should have gone on a hiatus after original Dragon Ball ended and started Dragon Ball Z up like after the Japanese summer break in September 89 instead of a literal week after Dragon Ball 86 ended. I get that Toei/Bandai/Shueisha higher ups would have vetoed anything like that but would have helped Z's infamously sluggish pacing I think

Well if they did that we wouldnt have the amazing Gohan filler episodes from the Saiyan saga. I think Z should have gone on hiatus on the episode they decide to go to Namek instead.

Why? They still could started Z later and still feature all the Gohan filler. The idea is if they waited they wouldn't have to resort to BAD filler just to not overtake the manga.

The 1986 anime starting up when the manga was at Muscle Tower didn't prevent the anime from creating the Pilaf Gang filler in the first arc that made them less out of nowhere villains or the filler arc for Colonel Silver

[Cure Dragon 255]

I agree the original Dragon Ball handled filler a lot better than Z but I think its because the series started far away enough from when the manga did they had plenty of time to create interesting padding that enhanced the story. The Saiyan saga also had some great filler and that was the last time there was a notable gap between the manga and the anime. It's not a coincidence the pacing and padding went to shit as soon as the anime caught up to near where the manga was.

They probably weren't allowed to, but in hindsight, they should have gone on a hiatus after original Dragon Ball ended and started Dragon Ball Z up like after the Japanese summer break in September 89 instead of a literal week after Dragon Ball 86 ended. I get that Toei/Bandai/Shueisha higher ups would have vetoed anything like that but would have helped Z's infamously sluggish pacing I think

Well if they did that we wouldnt have the amazing Gohan filler episodes from the Saiyan saga. I think Z should have gone on hiatus on the episode they decide to go to Namek instead.

Why? They still could started Z later and still feature all the Gohan filler. The idea is if they waited they wouldn't have to resort to BAD filler just to not overtake the manga.

The 1986 anime starting up when the manga was at Muscle Tower didn't prevent the anime from creating the Pilaf Gang filler in the first arc that made them less out of nowhere villains or the filler arc for Colonel Silver

How do you know that? Why wouldnt they just focus on the episodes that are based on the manga? At least in my proposal the episodes wil 100% exist.

[Vegetto95]

Apparently both, but one on each post. I REALLY love the staredowns. They are pretty atmospheric and add a lot of hype and flavor to the show. Sure they may not be in the manga, but they are harmless and can actually add to scenes rather than detract.

Gotcha, couldn't 100% tell from the way you worded your reply lol
But yeah, I totally agree. I know a LOT of people basically have this reaction to those sorts of scenes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXE8LdXzeHM

But to me, they just bring to mind great stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwb3P0fuM1c
https://youtu.be/iIToSVlFjBk?si=iH9iE8FatZBgSON5&t=33
https://youtu.be/mAUYfj7bML8?si=w2bAxOPBLMo730GY&t=70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaLFKXa99F0
https://youtu.be/xkZ-eU__ehE?si=hzn0A0iUASQ5XOd9&t=25
https://youtu.be/YRcUdD5nthc?si=uEkNkJXLqf2EGZYA&t=15
https://youtu.be/NoAzpa1x7jU?si=E-JsVux_R585S0hV&t=160
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW1d9p3ECIU

And so many other examples, but you get the point. One of the (MANY) problems with Kai is that it was often far too overzealous to "correct" many of Z's pacing issues (which, at least to me, usually came off more as OVERcorrections), and a lot of the moments that originally allowed a scene to breathe and build up excitement felt far too in a rush to just get things going. To, again, as in the first clip linked above... "GET ON WITH IT!!"

And yeah, I understand that to many people, that's one of the things they LIKE about Kai. Which WOULD be fine and dandy, were it not for how sloppy and janky most of Kai's editing of Z was....

[MasenkoHA]

Well if they did that we wouldnt have the amazing Gohan filler episodes from the Saiyan saga. I think Z should have gone on hiatus on the episode they decide to go to Namek instead.

Why? They still could started Z later and still feature all the Gohan filler. The idea is if they waited they wouldn't have to resort to BAD filler just to not overtake the manga.

The 1986 anime starting up when the manga was at Muscle Tower didn't prevent the anime from creating the Pilaf Gang filler in the first arc that made them less out of nowhere villains or the filler arc for Colonel Silver

How do you know that? Why wouldnt they just focus on the episodes that are based on the manga? At least in my proposal the episodes wil 100% exist.

For the exact same reason original Dragon Ball wasn't just manga only material.


Like ???

[Cure Dragon 255]

Why? They still could started Z later and still feature all the Gohan filler. The idea is if they waited they wouldn't have to resort to BAD filler just to not overtake the manga.

The 1986 anime starting up when the manga was at Muscle Tower didn't prevent the anime from creating the Pilaf Gang filler in the first arc that made them less out of nowhere villains or the filler arc for Colonel Silver

How do you know that? Why wouldnt they just focus on the episodes that are based on the manga? At least in my proposal the episodes wil 100% exist.

For the exact same reason original Dragon Ball wasn't just manga only material.


Like ???

In a world where Toei HAD to put ANYTHING on screen weekly for years. OBVIOUSLY in a reality where there is a hiatus there wouldnt be any need for filler and thus there wouldnt be any. Or at least they would but in a VERY different form, not the ones in our reality where Toei had to put filler on the screen.

All I am saying the hiatus should have started on the episode they figure out they need to go to Namek, why is that so bad?

[jjgp1112]

How do you know that? Why wouldnt they just focus on the episodes that are based on the manga? At least in my proposal the episodes wil 100% exist.

For the exact same reason original Dragon Ball wasn't just manga only material.


Like ???

In a world where Toei HAD to put ANYTHING on screen weekly for years. OBVIOUSLY in a reality where there is a hiatus there wouldnt be any need for filler and thus there wouldnt be any. Or at least they would but in a VERY different form, not the ones in our reality where Toei had to put filler on the screen.

All I am saying the hiatus should have started on the episode they figure out they need to go to Namek, why is that so bad?

Because, as he just pointed out, even when they were a great deal behind the manga when they first started in 1986, they still utilized filler anyway. When DB first started they were a year and change behind the manga, and even with filler it only took 30 episodes for that 14 month gap to shorten to 10 months. Even a summer hiatus would've still only stretched the gap to just under a year behind. So I imagine even with a cushion, they would've still been proactive about preventing the series from catching up the same way they were three years earlier.

[90sDBZ]

I enjoy a drawn out power up sequence if they're creative with it and it looks cool.

Nappa's initial power up was awesome. It had lightening, an earthquake, rocks flying around, and the terrified reactions of the Z Fighters going for it. There was another cool bit later were Tien attacks him in a rage, and it briefly cuts to a tornado flying around in the background. Stuff like this adds so much weight to a fight, and it's one of the reasons I still watch Z sometimes even with Kai's existence.

Some of the training filler is also incredible, like the gravity malfunction episode were Goku nearly dies on his way to Namek. It helps to justify his insane strength afterwards, and makes it feel earned.

I also enjoy the pre-Cell Games filler. It gives us a nice break from the constant tension of the arc. It also adds to the sense that Goku is making the most of his time with his family before his potential demise.

And the Otherworld filler is good too, because it feels like the type of stuff Goku would actually get up to in the afterlife. And it's refreshingly light after Cell.

[Koitsukai]

Slice of life filler, the one that usually doesn't rock the boat enough to contradict further developments. Like the driving episode, or Gohan doing dumb stuff while being trained by Piccolo (he befriends some orphans), or when he meets Tao Pai Pai, or when Goku meets Tao Pai Pai again before the Cell Games.

Filler like Gohan fighting Freeza on Namek while Goku is "dead" is among the worst filler I can think of.

[JulieYBM]

I like the original story arcs and one-off episodes. I'd love to have more of those written, with a greater emphasis on setting up and resolving character arcs.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Slice of life filler, the one that usually doesn't rock the boat enough to contradict further developments. Like the driving episode, or Gohan doing dumb stuff while being trained by Piccolo (he befriends some orphans), or when he meets Tao Pai Pai, or when Goku meets Tao Pai Pai again before the Cell Games.

Filler like Gohan fighting Freeza on Namek while Goku is "dead" is among the worst filler I can think of.

I dont love that filler but I heard it was quite popular and thus I am quite interested in knowing what makes this among the worst filler.