Do you consider Piccolo and Demon King Piccolo the same person or separate entities?

[WittyUsername]

Reincarnation in general isn’t exactly something that has a proven basis in the real world, so really, the rules for whether a reincarnation should be considered the same as their past life is entirely up to the author. I’m not sure Toriyama ever gave a conclusive statement about whether he considers Piccolo Daimao and Piccolo Jr. to be the exact same person.

[ABED]

He's both. There's nothing ambiguous about it. He's both the father and the son.

[MasenkoHA]

He's both. There's nothing ambiguous about it. He's both the father and the son.

Indeed the most common religion on the world is built on the idea that the deity and his son on earth were one and the same. Which is why I'm surprised so many people are having trouble wrapping their heads around Piccolo. The original Daimao ensured his own survival (and Kami's for that matter) by transferring his essence into his last son. The text never backtracks that the final son of Piccolo Daimao is Piccolo Daimao.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Now I know NO ONE wants to hear about Pretty Cure around here... But in Doki Doki Pretty Cure a character divided her soul in two, one good side and an evil side, these two sides incarnated into two people, a "Heroine" and a "Villain". Eventually these two people eventually overcame their origins and become two whole people with a good (For the villain) and bad side (Heroine) grown after a while. Making them actual people

I think that's what happened with Piccolo, he was born out of Piccolo I's darkness and evil but became a whole different person and gained "A good side" in his soul. Its precisely what happened on Doki Doki, sans the Good being born too, but it still does if you count Kami.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I'm also reminded of Marik in Yu-Gi-Oh, it was established that his evil side was born out of his resentment towards the pharaoh who he had to dedicate his life to guarding the tomb, although that was a different case than Piccolo. It seems to be quite clear cut there that they were different people, as we see good Marik floating around while Yami Marik is in control of his body, meaning he had his own soul. I do remember playing the Reshef of Destruction game and Marik having some lines about wanting to atone for some of his horrific past sins though. It may have been because whether or not a new soul was born out of his hatred it was ultimately the good Marik's fault for allowing that to happen by being resentful in the first place.

The example from Doki Doki Pretty Cure sounds similar, but I don't think this is what happened with Piccolo. King Piccolo and Piccolo Junior is more like Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars, but in reverse and with the addition of a body transfer rather than a mechanical reconstruction. Obi-Wan said Anakin and Vader were two different people but meant it metaphorically as through his journey to the dark side Anakin became a completely different person Obi-Wan trained to become a Jedi.

[90sDBZ]

I dunno.

If they really are supposed to be the same guy, then why did Jr get a different voice actor in Japanese? Considering how determined Toei were to keep the same voices for Goku and Krillin as adults, it's strange that they'd choose to recast Piccolo if he really is the same person.

The thing about his lifeforce being tied to Kami is a good point. But isn't it theoretically possible Jr was simply born from King Piccolo's lifeforce without actually being the same person?

And there's something else I thought of. Right after King Piccolo spits out the egg, he points at it and continues speaking for a few seconds. I can't remember the exact phrasing, but he essentially tells the egg to get revenge for him. If it's the same guy, then how is he alive in 2 places at once? And why would he need to tell himself to get revenge?

[MasenkoHA]

I dunno.

If they really are supposed to be the same guy, then why did Jr get a different voice actor in Japanese? Considering how determined Toei were to keep the same voices for Goku and Krillin as adults, it's strange that they'd choose to recast Piccolo if he really is the same person.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Toei's casting decisions as an argument for Toriyama's intent.

The thing about his lifeforce being tied to Kami is a good point. But isn't it theoretically possible Jr was simply born from King Piccolo's lifeforce without actually being the same person?

Not when they continue you to remind you that Kami and Piccolo (jr) came from the same Namekian. And continue to remind you that Piccolo is the same Piccolo from before. Kami and Goku (relayed by Gohan) said Piccolo wasn't as evil as he was before he died. They didn't say he wasn't evil as his father Piccolo

And there's something else I thought of. Right after King Piccolo spits out the egg, he points at it and continues speaking for a few seconds. I can't remember the exact phrasing, but he essentially tells the egg to get revenge for him. If it's the same guy, then how is he alive in 2 places at once?

We don't know what was inside the egg before it hatched (anime only material aside). The egg hatched after the original Piccolo Daimao died. We also don't know how Demonic Namekian reproduction works.

And why would he need to tell himself to get revenge?

Because he was dying. He was getting revenge through his son who is also him.

The Jesus/God thing again.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I dunno.

If they really are supposed to be the same guy, then why did Jr get a different voice actor in Japanese? Considering how determined Toei were to keep the same voices for Goku and Krillin as adults, it's strange that they'd choose to recast Piccolo if he really is the same person.

The thing about his lifeforce being tied to Kami is a good point. But isn't it theoretically possible Jr was simply born from King Piccolo's lifeforce without actually being the same person?

And there's something else I thought of. Right after King Piccolo spits out the egg, he points at it and continues speaking for a few seconds. I can't remember the exact phrasing, but he essentially tells the egg to get revenge for him. If it's the same guy, then how is he alive in 2 places at once? And why would he need to tell himself to get revenge?

I think that its because Piccolo Jr was born little and then grew, reincarnation or not, he was born little and though he had to age fast he would still be quite young, that's why they needed to cast Toshio Furukawa.

[90sDBZ]

We don't know what was inside the egg before it hatched (anime only material aside). The egg hatched after the original Piccolo Daimao died. We also don't know how Demonic Namekian reproduction works.

I'd assume Jr's body was already inside the egg. How else could it get there?

Because he was dying. He was getting revenge through his son who is also him.

The Jesus/God thing again.

I see what you're getting at with the Jesus/God thing, but we literally see Piccolo talk to his son while he's still alive. In that brief moment he's still physically alive and present, and not some otherworldly entity.

I think that its because Piccolo Jr was born little and then grew, reincarnation or not, he was born little and though he had to age fast he would still be quite young, that's why they needed to cast Toshio Furukawa.

But wasn't King Piccolo supposed to be in his prime after having his youth restored? And Furukawa continues to voice Jr all the way to the end of the story, when he's much older.

[tonysoprano300]

I dunno.

If they really are supposed to be the same guy, then why did Jr get a different voice actor in Japanese? Considering how determined Toei were to keep the same voices for Goku and Krillin as adults, it's strange that they'd choose to recast Piccolo if he really is the same person.

The thing about his lifeforce being tied to Kami is a good point. But isn't it theoretically possible Jr was simply born from King Piccolo's lifeforce without actually being the same person?

And there's something else I thought of. Right after King Piccolo spits out the egg, he points at it and continues speaking for a few seconds. I can't remember the exact phrasing, but he essentially tells the egg to get revenge for him. If it's the same guy, then how is he alive in 2 places at once? And why would he need to tell himself to get revenge?

Maybe my confusion lies in whether or not Piccolo Daimo and Piccolo Jr share the same conscious experience, I can acknowledge they are the same biologically.

[Majin Buu]

I see what you're getting at with the Jesus/God thing, but we literally see Piccolo talk to his son while he's still alive. In that brief moment he's still physically alive and present, and not some otherworldly entity.

He's talking to his unborn son though. We don't actually see Daimao and Junior alive at the same time as Junior's birth (re: hatching) noticeably doesn't happen until after Daimao is dead. Junior was probably just an empty vessel inside that egg until Daimao died, at which point his soul transferred to Junior. Junior is born and hatches at that point.

[MasenkoHA]

I see what you're getting at with the Jesus/God thing, but we literally see Piccolo talk to his son while he's still alive. In that brief moment he's still physically alive and present, and not some otherworldly entity.

He's talking to his unborn son though. We don't actually see Daimao and Junior alive at the same time as Junior's birth (re: hatching) noticeably doesn't happen until after Daimao is dead. Junior was probably just an empty vessel inside that egg until Daimao died, at which point his soul transferred to Junior. Junior is born and hatches at that point.

That was my line of thought.

Kami-sama later referred to Ma Junior as a shade of Piccolo Daimao and called him a clone so it is possible there were briefly two Piccolos and the original transferred his memories to the copy. At any rate he's still regarded as the Piccolo Daimao not simply his son like Tambourine, Drum, Piano, and Cymbal, and the other characters do regard the actions of the original Piccolo Daimao as the actions of the second Piccolo.

[Koitsukai]

I see him more like some type of clone.
The statements make it clear that he is Daimaoh but his behaviour does not. They share the same genetic material, including memories but not whatever makes for a mind/soul/spirit. Even before going through heart-warming events, he is already somewhat decent and not as evil.
Jr. is nothing like his father/himself/donor from the get go*.

*or maybe he was, maybe if Jr. went through the same things Kami experienced, he would've ended up being exactly like Daimaoh. Perhaps, inside Kami(what?), Daimaoh wasn't as fucked up as seen years later.

[Jack Bz]

I've always seen him as a son who has all the memories of his father. So he had that brain plasticity to form new personality traits and be defined by new experiences rather than just his past. And I kind of love the idea that Daimao's plan backfired and his son ended up being Goku's greatest ally. I prefer thinking of it like that to Piccolo Daimao himself deciding to be Goku's friend.